Realforce 88UB - UK model - honest user review required...

[ShivaYash]

Dear all,

A while since I've posted.

I'm in the market for a Realforce KB, having fallen in love again with the HHKB. Cherry MX seems like a distant memory now.

The 88UB seems like a cut down board with very few bells and whistles, and is it unique to the UK? But the price is far from 'cut down'.

Any real user thoughts? I say this as often find many comment without actually have owned/ used the board. I'm keen to hear the views of users.

Apologies in advance if this may seem rude, it is not intended to be, I just want to hear from the 'coalface'.

With best,

[ShivaYash]

I'm surprised there aren't any views on this, or perhaps has my stern tone setting the parameters put some fellow GHers off?

Look forward to hearing from someone shortly.

Here's to hoping.

[oscillik]

there are probably few users due to the ISO layout, and the increased difficulty to get replacement keycaps for it (replacement keycaps for Topre boards even in ANSI layout is hard)

[ShivaYash]

there are probably few users due to the ISO layout, and the increased difficulty to get replacement keycaps for it (replacement keycaps for Topre boards even in ANSI layout is hard)

Many thanks, it the 88UB similar in terms of look and feel to the equivalent 87?

I'm temped to try it out but that means spending close to £200.

[munch]

it's not really unique to the UK, I have used a Swedish version (I am from Sweden).

I can honestly say I think it feels better than the HHKB, more solidly built. feels different due to this as well. a bit more "hard" bottom out.

it feels just like the 87 except it is ISO. I can't tell a difference.

[Hyde]

Hmmmmm I would say it's a preference, like munch said above that it has a harder bottom out compare to HHKB (due to plate mount).

HOWEVER personally I like the softer bottom out and more "thock" sound from HHKB.

That and I'm assuming it's a variable layout, personally I prefer 45g uniform (HHKB).

But everyone have different preferences so I don't know what you like lol.

[ShivaYash]

Thanks for this. For the moment I've opted to stick with the HHKB. £192 plus postage seems too steep just for a trial.

[munch]

Hmmmmm I would say it's a preference, like munch said above that it has a harder bottom out compare to HHKB (due to plate mount).

HOWEVER personally I like the softer bottom out and more "thock" sound from HHKB.

That and I'm assuming it's a variable layout, personally I prefer 45g uniform (HHKB).

But everyone have different preferences so I don't know what you like lol.

88UB is all 45g actually.
--

ShivaYash,
I think you are doing the right thing if you like the HHKB layout!

[epzy]

I have an 88UB, but I never really used it much seeing as I wasn't fond of the big RF bezel back then. It's a very solid board, it feels a bit lighter than the HHKB 45g, but it's nice if you like plate mounted Topre. I do like my 45g HHKB and 55g RF more so than the 88UB 45g, though.

[ShivaYash]

I have an 88UB, but I never really used it much seeing as I wasn't fond of the big RF bezel back then. It's a very solid board, it feels a bit lighter than the HHKB 45g, but it's nice if you like plate mounted Topre. I do like my 45g HHKB and 55g RF more so than the 88UB 45g, though.

Thanks. What model number is the 55g Realforce.

[epzy]

I have an 88UB, but I never really used it much seeing as I wasn't fond of the big RF bezel back then. It's a very solid board, it feels a bit lighter than the HHKB 45g, but it's nice if you like plate mounted Topre. I do like my 45g HHKB and 55g RF more so than the 88UB 45g, though.

Thanks. What model number is the 55g Realforce.

It's the one in my signature, the 10th anniversary edition.

[ShivaYash]

I have an 88UB, but I never really used it much seeing as I wasn't fond of the big RF bezel back then. It's a very solid board, it feels a bit lighter than the HHKB 45g, but it's nice if you like plate mounted Topre. I do like my 45g HHKB and 55g RF more so than the 88UB 45g, though.

Thanks. What model number is the 55g Realforce.

It's the one in my signature, the 10th anniversary edition.

Thanks. That would be sweet in ISO, for me.

[janvkn]

I have the 87UW 55g since a few weeks.

To be honest, I'm a bit disappointed with it. First let me say that I do love the classic look, I love the dyesub PBT keycaps and I especially love the Topre feel... and those were the main reasons I got it.

However, as a whole it doesn't feel as solidly built as my Filcos or even my Poker IIs. The case feels more flexible and the plastic is a bit creaky. As a matter of fact, when it came out of the box, one of the rubber feet didn't grip the desk properly and the keyboard kept pivoting around the other rubber foot. I had to twist the whole board a bit to get both feet to grip properly.

Speaking of those rubber feet, there are only two of them, at the front. At the back all you get are plastic nubs, and they do a considerably worse job at keeping the keyboard solidly in place on my desk.

My final issue is with the profile of the keys. The different key rows appear to be slanted forward somewhat, which feels weird if you are used to Cherry MX boards with OEM, DSA or SA caps. The bottom row is even curved upwards rather steeply. This means that when my thumb hits the spacebar,  or one of the mods, it usually hits the rather sharp edge of the key rather than the flat surface of it. This gets annoying after a while. I tried reversing the spacebar, but that felt weird too, and it still didn't solve the problem with the mods. It seems that this keyboard was designed for typists who kinda hover their hands over the keyboard, and that's not how I type.

[ShivaYash]

Given these real user reviews, what makes RF so special in the eyes of many? Just a like the HHKB its considered a dream board amongst those in the know, but its seems, this model at least, is not worthy of its high price point. I'd be interested in hear if other RF boards perform better, and are considered worthy.

For the moment, I'll be sticking to my HHKB. It took some getting use to and now its a little bit of a shame, as the hunt for the best KB has ended, at least for the time being.

I have FILCOs collecting dust... maybe I'll pass on onto my father to use, as he does a lot of typing and could do with changing out the original iMac (Snow) supplied KB.

[ksm123]

It seems that this keyboard was designed for typists who kinda hover their hands over the keyboard, and that's not how I type.

This means that you ought to learn to type properly ;-) or buy yourself high wrist rests, otherwise you are in for Carpal Tunnel Syndrome therapy in a few years.

I would like to try a Topre board very much, but I got used to split keyboards and uTron is way to expensive.

[janvkn]

that you ought to learn to type properly ;-) or buy yourself high wrist rests, otherwise you are in for Carpal Tunnel Syndrome therapy in a few years.

Ah I don't think that we're on the same page here, perhaps I should have explained better. I do hold my wrists high, so that they don't rest on my desk, so a wrist rest wouldn't help me much. When I'm typing, my wrists are not bent and my hands are aligned in more or less a straight line with my forearm. To hit the bottom row of the realforce properly, I feel like I would have to hold my wrists higher, so that my hands have to form an angle with my forearm.

The picture below explains it better.


Left: how I actually type
Middle: how I would have to type, so that I don't hit the sharp edge of the bottom row keys
Right: how you thought I typed

[ShivaYash]

#getawristrest

[Kisuaca]

I have the 87UW 55g since a few weeks.

To be honest, I'm a bit disappointed with it. First let me say that I do love the classic look, I love the dyesub PBT keycaps and I especially love the Topre feel... and those were the main reasons I got it.

However, as a whole it doesn't feel as solidly built as my Filcos or even my Poker IIs. The case feels more flexible and the plastic is a bit creaky. As a matter of fact, when it came out of the box, one of the rubber feet didn't grip the desk properly and the keyboard kept pivoting around the other rubber foot. I had to twist the whole board a bit to get both feet to grip properly.

Speaking of those rubber feet, there are only two of them, at the front. At the back all you get are plastic nubs, and they do a considerably worse job at keeping the keyboard solidly in place on my desk.

My final issue is with the profile of the keys. The different key rows appear to be slanted forward somewhat, which feels weird if you are used to Cherry MX boards with OEM, DSA or SA caps. The bottom row is even curved upwards rather steeply. This means that when my thumb hits the spacebar,  or one of the mods, it usually hits the rather sharp edge of the key rather than the flat surface of it. This gets annoying after a while. I tried reversing the spacebar, but that felt weird too, and it still didn't solve the problem with the mods. It seems that this keyboard was designed for typists who kinda hover their hands over the keyboard, and that's not how I type.

I recieved 87U yesterday and I can confirm the rubber feet problem.

[ShivaYash]

I'd be pretty annoyed if after having forked out nearly £200 this happened to me. I think I've hit my keyboard high with the HHKB and it will serve me well for many many years now. #thesearchisover

[munch]

I'd be pretty annoyed if after having forked out nearly £200 this happened to me. I think I've hit my keyboard high with the HHKB and it will serve me well for many many years now. #thesearchisover

#delusional #self-deception

just kidding. but I do hope you're truly happy with it... now you can start collecting topre clacks!

[Hypersphere]

Don't know about the 88UB, but I recently bought the RF 87UB 55g, and it has become my favorite board. I also have an 87UB 45g, Leopold FC660C, and HHKB Pro 2. The HHKB Pro 2 is my favorite form factor and layout, but I favor the RF 87UB 55g for its solid sound and feel. The 87UB 45g is a very close second to the 87UB 55g, but the heavier switch seems to add to the richness of the Topre experience.

I also like the CM Novatouch. It is nominally 45g, but it feels even lighter. It is quite fun to modulate the sound and feel of the board by changing Cherry mx keycaps and trying the board with or without various types of O-rings. I am typing this on my Novatouch fitted with a blue and white set of dye-sub Cherry mx keycaps from geek_feng; the board looks, sounds, and feels great.

I'm in the process of selling my Cherry mx boards, but I will keep my best Cherry mx keycaps to showcase on the hybrid Topre-switch Novatouch board.

[spiceBar]

Dear all,

A while since I've posted.

I'm in the market for a Realforce KB, having fallen in love again with the HHKB. Cherry MX seems like a distant memory now.

The 88UB seems like a cut down board with very few bells and whistles, and is it unique to the UK? But the price is far from 'cut down'.

Any real user thoughts? I say this as often find many comment without actually have owned/ used the board. I'm keen to hear the views of users.

Apologies in advance if this may seem rude, it is not intended to be, I just want to hear from the 'coalface'.

With best,

I have an AZERTY RF88UB, it's the same ISO layout than the UK version.

I also own 2 RF87UW and an HHKB Type-S.

The 88UB is uniform 45g, while the RF87UW are variable weight (essentially 45g in the middle, 30g on the sides). Honestly, that does not make much of a difference.

The Realforces are great keyboards, solidly built. People who are reporting warped keyboards should no worry about it: the case is designed to be slightly flexible and has no screw, so it can be warped back to fit your desk. Inside the case, the plate is perfectly rigid.

The keyboard sounds relatively quiet, more so than the HHKB, which in comparison sounds hollow. The difference comes mainly from the metal plate inside the RF: the HHKB has none.

It is possible to make it even quieter by filling the empty spaces inside the keyboard with felt or rubber foam. The sound becomes gorgeous. It's also possible to silence the upstroke sound of the keys, without losing the "thock" when you bottom out.

The Realforces are on par with the Filcos, quality-wise, and have a classier sound and feel (I admit it is subjective, I also love the Cherry keyboards, they are just different).

The only thing I dislike on the 88UB is that the keys are dark grey (almost black) and the legends are black. It's absolutely stupid. The legends are unreadable. I had to put stickers on mine.

Apart from that, it's one of the greatest keyboards out there.

[Hypersphere]

Regarding the black RF models, yes the black on dark gray legends render the keys almost unreadable except under just the right lighting conditions. However, there are Topre keycap sets available on eBay or via proxy from Leopold in Korea. In addition, the keycaps from a HHKB Pro 2 will fit the RF.

Initially, I put a set of white HHKB Pro 2 caps on my RF 87u for the alpha and number keys, but I thought the HHKB legends were a bit too busy with their combination of top- and front-printing. Now I have a blue set for the letters, numbers, and arrow keys. I've left the mods and spacebar in black. I also used black Opt/Alt keys from a HHKB set to replace the Windows bubble keys -- they are a perfect match (sans bubbles).

The black mods work well for me because I have remapped the layout to a Mac/HHKB configuration and not being able to see the legends is perfect (for example, I don't have the correct keycaps to swap the Backspace and Backslash).

[saturnotaku]

I have a Filco and two Realforce 87Us, one a silent variable the other a 45g modded to be silent with silicone and Krytox. In terms of build quality, the difference is very slight, but I would have to give the nod to the Filco. The Topre typing experience, though, more than compensates.

I will say I'm not a fan of the dark legends on gray keycaps used on the charcoal Realforce models. That's how my 45g board was. My silent variable is white, and I purchased a set of red caps from eBay. I put the red alphanumerics and gray meta keys on the white silent variable then put the white alphanumerics and red meta keys on the uniform. I love how both keyboards look now, and since I use the variable at work where there's plenty of light, the readability of the legends isn't much of an issue.

I wish Topre had as much keycap variety as Cherry. The Novatouch is designed to address that issue, but I'm not 100% sold on CoolerMaster's build quality. I've used their TKL boards and if I may use a tired car analogy, the CM was a Volkswagen Jetta while the Filco felt like an Audi A4.

[spiceBar]

Regarding the black RF models, yes the black on dark gray legends render the keys almost unreadable except under just the right lighting conditions. However, there are Topre keycap sets available on eBay or via proxy from Leopold in Korea. In addition, the keycaps from a HHKB Pro 2 will fit the RF.

Initially, I put a set of white HHKB Pro 2 caps on my RF 87u for the alpha and number keys, but I thought the HHKB legends were a bit too busy with their combination of top- and front-printing. Now I have a blue set for the letters, numbers, and arrow keys. I've left the mods and spacebar in black. I also used black Opt/Alt keys from a HHKB set to replace the Windows bubble keys -- they are a perfect match (sans bubbles).

The black mods work well for me because I have remapped the layout to a Mac/HHKB configuration and not being able to see the legends is perfect (for example, I don't have the correct keycaps to swap the Backspace and Backslash).

You can replace the keycaps if you are a QWERTY user.

I'm not sure you will be able to find UK keycaps out there, and it will be even more difficult to find AZERTY ones.