Cherry MX 3000(M) - any good?

[lost eden]

I was rummaging around last night in a big pile of kit being thrown out by my unviersity & came across a box of keyboards. Whenever I see keyboards I quickly press them to see if they click & to my surprise some of them did. By torchlight I discovered that they were Cherry & brought the least grimy one home with me.

In the morning I could get a better look at the thing & it is a Cherry MX 3000M, in full working order. Can anybody tell me anything about these keyboards? I've been typing on this one for about an hour now & like it much more than the clicky BTC board I found at my previous uni (Alps switches, or so I was told, which was a far too harsh response for my wrists).

I think there were 2 more in the box, one missing a key (which might have just been loose in the bottom of the box) & I was thinking about going back to grab them too tonight.

Sorry for the bad photos, haven't opened the blinds yet today as it's so ridiculously sunny outside atm!

[bsvP585hUO2Y6]

lost eden writes:

> I was rummaging around last night in a big pile of kit being thrown
> out by my unviersity & came across a box of keyboards.

I came to love those piles at my University too :-).  I wasn't lucky
enough to find decent keyboards in them yet though...

> In the morning I could get a better look at the thing & it is a Cherry
> MX 3000M, in full working order. Can anybody tell me anything about
> these keyboards?

It looks like a G80 to me.  Hard to tell without a picture of the label
at the bottom of the board.  There's an article on the wiki that
explains how to interpret the letters in the serial number on it[1], and
another one that has all the details on the switches[2].

regards,
andreas

Footnotes:
[1]  http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Dating+Cherry+keyboards

[2]  http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Cherry+switches

[keyb_gr]

MX3000M = G80-3000 w/ Win keys.

That's the old-style 3000 case as still used (with slightly different looks) in Czech made G80s. It also looks like you have one with the better two-shot (or dye sublimation?) labeling, which I prefer over the lasered one due to its better contrast. Should be from about 1996...1999.

Please look up the "Article No." on the label. Should be G80-3000HFMUK or somesuch. From the serial number you can also determine the age, as explained in the wiki.

Nice catch certainly. I'm currently typing on a very similar 1996 vintage G80-3000HEMDE (with German layout, MX clears and two-shot labeling).

Wouldn't be a bad idea to grab the other ones as well. They're quite service-friendly overall and easily disassembled, and there's not much to go bad. A makeshift keycap puller is recommended though (the caps want to be pulled straight up, so they have to be grabbed on two sides).

EDIT: Oh, and your camera is living a year in the past.

[ch_123]

Have you tried removing a keycap? Best way to do so is by getting two flathead screwdrivers, and slowly levering the key up on each side. Then you should be able to find out what switches are in it.

[l]Im not sure about the Mx-3000. The most common Cherry board around here is the G80-3000 (which uses MX-style switches), so maybe MX-3000 is an old name for the G80-3000? Maybe some of our Cherry experts while now.[/l] EDIT: Beaten to it.

And I agree, Cherry boards are much nicer than Alps.

[lowpoly]

Does anybody know when they stopped using the diode (=NKRO) switches? Do the MX-3000 still have them?

[sandy55]

I think beige 3000HxMxx is not available .

[lost eden]

Thanks for all the information guys, the wiki is extremely detailed.

I took the keyboard apart to start cleaning it & to see what it's made from Don't worry, I didn't take any photos of the hideous amounts of filth inside the thing!

Here's the label from the bottom. German made G80-3000HSMGB/05.


Blue switches, keys look as though they may be made from 2 different colours of plastic?


Green switch for the spacebar.


All the naked switches, most of the filth cleaned out.


Another identification label on the top face of the PCB, beneath the [Scroll Lock] button.


Motorola controller of some sort?


Switch porn (more on the Flickr page http://www.flickr.com/photos/31899330@N08/).


My next question is this - how does one clean the keys, now that they have been removed from the keyboard? Can I wash them? If so, can I use any sort of antibacterial products, or do I risk removing the markings?

[lowpoly]

Nice pics.

My next question is this - how does one clean the keys, now that they have been removed from the keyboard? Can I wash them? If so, can I use any sort of antibacterial products, or do I risk removing the markings?

Put them in the dishwasher, cutlery basket. Close the compartment with something so the keys are not blown out by the water and land on the heating. I use 50 degrees Celsius. You can put the case and cable in too but may have to protect the sticker.

The markings are a separate part of plastic, these are double injection keycaps. No way to remove the symbols without completely destroying the keycap.

[itlnstln]

My next question is this - how does one clean the keys, now that they have been removed from the keyboard? Can I wash them? If so, can I use any sort of antibacterial products, or do I risk removing the markings?

My G80-3000 has laser printed keys, so there isn't a risk of washing the legends off.  If you have a dishwasher, you can use that.  User Shawn Stanford recommended to put the keys in a collander/strainer and put a pot lid on top when washing them in the dishwasher.  In the past, I have also used Simple Green to keyboards/parts. I would soak the parts in a bucket of Simple Green overnight and wipe them down the next morning.

[sandy55]

What a surprise!!!
Didn't imagine that 3000HSMGB exist. would like to try those thick key caps!

[lowpoly]

Weren't all G80s HxM and beige before the Combo connectors and Laser keycaps came up?

[ch_123]

In the past, I have also used Simple Green to keyboards/parts. I would soak the parts in a bucket of Simple Green overnight and wipe them down the next morning.

I'm not sure what Simple Green is, but it sounds like what I do - a bucket of warm water and washing up liquid, stir them around a bit and let them soak for a while. Cleans even the grimy-est of keys.

@Lost Eden - You say there were some other similar boards that didnt click? They made be ones with Brown or Black switches. Only the blue ones may a clicking noise. Nice find btw

[lost eden]

Put them in the dishwasher, cutlery basket. Close the compartment with something so the keys are not blown out by the water and land on the heating. I use 50 degrees Celsius. You can put the case and cable in too but may have to protect the sticker.

The markings are a separate part of plastic, these are double injection keycaps. No way to remove the symbols without completely destroying the keycap.

My first thought was dishwasher, but mine doesn't have any temperature control - it's 65c or 65c. Will this be too hot? I'm guessing the plastic is a thermoset, so they shouldn't melt, but at the same time I don't want them to burn or anything stupid.

What a surprise!!!
Didn't imagine that 3000HSMGB exist. would like to try those thick key caps!

Depending whether the other two I saw are still there tonight, I might have another one or two to give away to anyone who wants to pay postage!

[itlnstln]

I'm not sure what Simple Green is, but it sounds like what I do - a bucket of warm water and washing up liquid, stir them around a bit and let them soak for a while. Cleans even the grimy-est of keys.

http://www.simplegreen.com/
 
I think lam47 said it's available in the UK, but I don't know about Ireland.  Here in the US, you can buy in big jugs, which is what I would use to soak parts in.

[lost eden]

I put the keys in a collander, covered by a bowl, in the top tray of the dishwasher & they've come out beautifully. I've jsut noticed that the Windows keys & the right-click-menu key aren't the 'dual-shot' style (the Windows keys I can understand, as they were a later addition to the layout, but the right-click one is a bit strange). Just waiting for them to dry now.

I'll head back down to the lab once the Sun's gone down to see if the others are still there - it's far too hot to venture outside before then!

[lowpoly]

I've jsut noticed that the Windows keys & the right-click-menu key aren't the 'dual-shot' style (the Windows keys I can understand, as they were a later addition to the layout, but the right-click one is a bit strange).

Right-click menu key and Windows keys came at the same time.

[lost eden]

Just been back down to the lab & came back with 3 more Cherry keyboards.

Another identical G80-3000HSMGB/05, with the same double-shot key caps, but missing the backslash/pipe key cap. I completely forgot at the time to rummage about in the bottom of the box in case it was there, I may have to pay another visit to look for it!

A G80-3000LSMGB-0/00, which is the same as the above but with regular key caps.

And finally a G80-3000LPNGB/01 with regular key caps & what I think must be MX1A-C non-clicky switches? Here's a photo of them.



The first one I found has cleaned up nicely. Put the keys through the dishwasher, washed the casing by hand in the basin.

[lowpoly]

And finally a G80-3000LPNGB/01 with regular key caps & what I think must be MX1A-C non-clicky switches? Here's a photo of them.

That looks like a G81. Is it LPNGB or LPMGB?

[lost eden]

That looks like a G81. Is it LPNGB or LPMGB?

Ah you're right, it's G81-3000LPNGB/01.

[lowpoly]

Never seen N before. What kind of plug does it have? DIN?

[lost eden]

What kind of plug does it have? DIN?

Nope, they're all PS/2.

[keyb_gr]

Concerning the subject of keycap printing, here are a few macro shots I took:

1989 G80-1xxxHAD
Looks like dye sublimation if you ask me. Should pop off a keycap to check.
EDIT: Done - two-shot.


1996 G80-3000HEMDE
Definitely two-shot, I popped off the keycap to check.


1992 G81-3079SAD
Your guess is as good as mine. Maybe this is dye sublimation? Might explain the fuzziness.


1996 G80-3000LFADE
Ewww... laser dot-matrixitis. If I were that key I'd try to Escape from myself.


1998 G81-3000LCNDE
More uniform, but still lasered.

[huha]

Show Image

1989 G80-1xxxHAD
Looks like dye sublimation if you ask me. Should pop off a keycap to check.

Show Image

1992 G81-3079SAD
Your guess is as good as mine. Maybe this is dye sublimation? Might explain the fuzziness.

The second one definitely is dye sublimation. There's always a little fuzziness to it. The first one looks rather silk-screened if you ask me. It almost seems as if there's a little structure to the lettering; you don't find this with dye sublimation.

-huha

[keyb_gr]

Could you pop the first key and check it?

Done - definitely dual shot.

So it seems like H = dual shot, S = dye sublimation, L = lasered and P = painted.

Here's something from the goodies department, a real well-used lasered light grey numpad enter:

Lettering viewed straight on:

So seems like it's not really the lines that are getting thinner, but rather the abraded parts become lighter. I think one can see that the lettering is deeper than the surrounding surface.

[lost eden]

I've just discovered a problem with using this lovely green-swithced dual-shot keyboard - I'm currently sat at work with a bog-standard IBM-Thinkstation era membrane & it feels awful!

[lost eden]

You live in the U.S.??

Nope, Scotland. I'm definately keeping the first one, not sure what I'm going to do with the others yet. The G81 doesn't seem too special so I might dump that back on the pile, not sure about the others yet.

Edit: Also, I think 'dumpster diver special' should be the new official model name for this thing

[keyb_gr]

I'm definately keeping the first one, not sure what I'm going to do with the others yet. The G81 doesn't seem too special so I might dump that back on the pile, not sure about the others yet.

If the G81 is completely functional (the rollover test may be helpful here), I'd tend to keep it, especially if it also has the old-style case (i.e. the same one as the G80-3000HSMGB). They're not super exciting of course, so piling them up makes little sense, but one single sample is nice to have.
(I have three, plus a dead one for spares. Only one of the three is a regular late-90s model though. Number two is an early sample with nicer lettering (see the macro shots) that I got NIB with docs and all, and number three is a funky 12100 model with integrated fingerprint reader that I was able to restore to quasi-original condition using keys from the parts sample; quasi-original because it originally was a "GB" model that had been converted to German layout with newer keys that looked out of place. Oh, and I disconnected the now-useless fingerprint reader.)

As for the G80s, I'd obtain the missing keycap from the lasered sample (not perfect but OK). You can try fitting that with the corresponding keycap of the G81, but at least in my tests the older G80 and G81 keycaps (bicolor scheme before 2002) wouldn't interchange very well.

[lost eden]

If the G81 is completely functional

I suppose the first thing to do would be to ascertain the functionality of them all before deciding their futures... That'll be my next port of call.

[keyb_gr]

I suppose the first thing to do would be to ascertain the functionality of them all before deciding their futures... That'll be my next port of call.

I'd be fairly confident with G80s... not too much to break there normally. (And if something does break, it may do so quite literally, e.g. cracked PCB.) G81s with new-style 3000 case may be a different story...

[vils]

I spotted a green IKEA collander on page 2, they come in orange too.

Nice findings BTW.

[keyb_gr]

Do you Cherry Keyboard guys know if the key spacing matches the IBMs Model M's?

The G81-3079 docs specifically mention that the "IBM overlay" matches the case. The Ctrl - Ctrl, Ctrl - numpad Enter and Ctrl - ^° distances of both 1989 G80-1xxxHAD and 2002 G80-3000LPMDE all match my Model M, give or take a mm.

[lowpoly]

May be able to do Cherry to Filco key swaps then.  It's gonna come up when Majestouch starts shipping the blank key sets.  Dunno if the angle geometry matches but both look like flat mounted switches so it should.

Usually, space bar length and levelling attachment points are the problems here.

[itlnstln]

Usually, space bar length and levelling attachment points are the problems here.

I also wouldn't swap the two, either, because the printing on the Cherry caps wouldn't look right on a Filco. Purely aesthetic reasoning, though.

[keyb_gr]

As a followup to my earlier post with keycap closeups, here's an Escape key from a 2002 G80-3000LPMDE since I noticed that these newer boards have larger lettering (no doubt in order to make up for the lower contrast):

2002 G80-3000LPMDE

EDIT: Looked more closely, and it seems that the 2002 sample still has the same size and it's only larger on the 2004 one. D'oh!

One keycap swap later:

2004 G80-3456LQMDE

[keyb_gr]

Yep, both lasered (and neither key with much wear). Seems like they got some better equipment in between these two boards, more powerful laser and all. I'd have to have a close look at a 2003 vintage board, which apparently was when they changed to the Vista-style Windows logo.

[IBI]

I'd have to have a close look at a 2003 vintage board, which apparently was when they changed to the Vista-style Windows logo.

They started to use the round bump logo back in 2003? I thought that was a recent change.

[keyb_gr]

They started to use the round bump logo back in 2003? I thought that was a recent change.

Well, me too, which in fact is why I was puzzled by the more recent Cherry Germany date-related serial number suffix. @work there's a board made 1P50 or so (which would translate to 2003, week 50, day 1) which has the "wavy" Windows logo already, and the early 2004 Czech-made G80 I'm typing on right now also has it.

Seems like the round bump logo is a newer thing though. I just didn't know that there also was a flat wavy logo before... must have been XP style then.

[IBI]

Well, me too, which in fact is why I was puzzled by the more recent Cherry Germany date-related serial number suffix. @work there's a board made 1P50 or so (which would translate to 2003, week 50, day 1) which has the "wavy" Windows logo already, and the early 2004 Czech-made G80 I'm typing on right now also has it.

Seems like the round bump logo is a newer thing though. I just didn't know that there also was a flat wavy logo before... must have been XP style then.

I've never see a non-wavy windows key/logo.

First we had the fragmenting/tailed one with outline squares (Windows 3.1 to Windows 2000), then we had the non-fragmenting one with filled-in squares (XP, Server 2003) and now we've got the orb one (Vista, Server 2008, Windows 7).

[vils]

With the introduction of a new Microsoft Windows logo, first used with Windows XP, the agreement was updated to require that the new design be adopted for all keyboards manufactured after September 1, 2003.[3] However, with the release of Windows Vista, Microsoft published guidelines for a new Windows Logo key that incorporates the Windows logo recessed in a lowered circle with a contrast ratio of at least 3:1 with respect to background that the key is applied to.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_key