Key Tronic Keyboards?

[iggysaps]

http://www.keytronic.com/home/products/specs/designer-p2.htm

Anyone heard of these?  They seem to sell a lot of keyboards but the link I posted above seems to be the most interesting.  Furthermore they boast of different key force required similar to the topre.

Some input from our experts would be appreciated.  It is a lot cheaper than any of the topres.

[low-fi]

Key Tronics were extremely popular in Finland in the nineties-early 00s. For their price, I consider them to be really good rubber dome 'boards. The Designer model you linked resembles the KT2001 model I've been using, and I think it has a pretty nice feel. It's not really as good as e.g. Model M, but sometimes I prefer Keytronic's light feel to mechanical switches.

They are very good keyboards for gaming, because they have good rollover-ability (not exactly NKRO, but still enough) and a precise feel. They're good for writing, I wouldn't really mind writing a novel on one. The keycaps are somewhat tall, the same as Model M.

I suggest you try it out. They're definitely not as good as expensive mechanical boards, but way above contemporary Logitech and Microsoft crap.

I actually thought about starting a KeyTronic appreciation thread a while ago.

[rdjack21]

I actually have one of those around here somewhere That is what I used before I rediscovered IBM Model M's and now Topre boards. They are one of the better rubber dome boards out there. And for the price you can find them for they are not a bad deal. But the real question is would I buy or recommend one to some one? Depends on who or what type of person I'm doing the recommending to 1) Cheap ass General user sure no problem they are better than most of the other crap out there but if they have a little more Money to spend then I would recommend one of the cheaper mechanical boards. 2) Keyboard geek no way they are not good enough for a keyboard geek mechanical and Topre boards are much better. 3) I would not buy one for myself but then again I'm a keyboard geek. But another question would be would I use one in a pinch sure but not for long.

[microsoft windows]

The only time I saw a Keytronic keyboard was when I was using an old computer. That keyboard weighed nearly as much as my Model M and was even more yellow than French's mustard. It also had a spot under the function keys where is showed commands like Copying and Pasting. From what I remember from them, I would say it dated from the early 1990's when Windows 3.1 came out.

[low-fi]

Sorry for posting such a big pic but I think this is a good find and want to emphasize the key weighting is similar to Topres.  I don't have one but I remember EJ-XX having a Keytronic, I think a different model.

Especially if you have RSI.

I really haven't noticed a big difference between the 'weighted' keys. I'd say it's more of a gimmick than a functional feature.

Edit: Oh, and I'm talking about the Key Tronc 'board here.

[low-fi]

Hm, well, the overall feel is a bit light, yes. Actually the keyboard has quite a strange feel to it that's hard to explain. Maybe the keys _are_ weighted, but I personally just don't feel it that way. The keys are just weird, somehow. But they are nice to type on, which is the important thing.

Now that I've used a G80-3000 for a few hours, the Key Tronic isn't that much lighter than this Cherry board -- so if the Blues are the "heaviest" Cherry switches around, the Key Tronic board in question cannot be considered a light keyboard. I guess anything feels light when compared to a Model M.

[low-fi]

...but you'd have to go collect some US nickels...

They could sell those at computer stores.

[ch_123]

so if the Blues are the "heaviest" Cherry switches around,

They aren't - the blacks, clears, greys and greens are heavier (the latter two being special heavy switches for spacebars)

[low-fi]

I'm not into breaking my new G80-3000 into pieces right now, so could someone provide me with information on the switches used on the board's enter, backspace and shift? They seem a lot more stiff than rest of the keys. Greens, greys, or what?

[lowpoly]

My KeyTronic is on a pile with the other rubber domes. I think it has issues in the looks department. Have to try it again though.

I'm not into breaking my new G80-3000 into pieces right now, so could someone provide me with information on the switches used on the board's enter, backspace and shift? They seem a lot more stiff than rest of the keys. Greens, greys, or what?

Same switches as the others. Only space has a different switch.

[1cewolf]

I'm pretty sure that Key Tronic was the OEM that made the original Microsoft Natural keyboard I've been using. Its feel is second to none compared to the other rubber dome keyboards I've tried.

[keyb_gr]

I'm pretty sure that Key Tronic was the OEM that made the original Microsoft Natural keyboard I've been using.

If grey cell memory doesn't fail me too badly, the FCC ID on these reveals the same. Check the FCC ID reference in the wiki.

Oh, and the FreeKEYB guys wrote the same in 1997.

[ricercar]

I've placed the Keytronic at the top of my rubber dome list since 1990 when I typed on my first one. The programmers each had one on his 33 MHz 386. We other folk had to fend for ourselves or find out which programmer wanted to trade...

Today I have two Keytronic boards with the trackball below spacebar. It's my favorite for quick motherboard testing since it has mouse and keyboard in one enclosure (not to mention a very nice feel to the keystrokes).

[rdjack21]

Rdjack, I didn't see any posting comparing the Keytronic to the Realforce.  Any similarity in feel??  I know you like the 87U better but still there are some RSI users that would benefit from a lighter than average keyboard.

Hmm I guess I will need to go dig through my pile and see if I can find that board. It has been quite some time since I have typed on it but I'll see if I can find it and write up my impressions.

[huha]

I'm not into breaking my new G80-3000 into pieces right now, so could someone provide me with information on the switches used on the board's enter, backspace and shift? They seem a lot more stiff than rest of the keys. Greens, greys, or what?

I don't know if the US shift has stabilizers, but the keys with stabilizers feel different from those without stabilizers. I swapped springs on my G80-3000 to create green switches, but I didn't like the feel on keys with stabilizers, so they have been swapped back to blue switches again.

-huha

[microsoft windows]

I've noticed a similar difference with key stablizers especially on the spacebars of older keyboards (a little on the Model M, more noticeable on the Model F).

[megarat]

I'm pretty sure that Key Tronic was the OEM that made the original Microsoft Natural keyboard I've been using. Its feel is second to none compared to the other rubber dome keyboards I've tried.

I believe this is correct, and that Keytronic is a geographic neighbor of Microsoft (being based in Spokane, WA) might be additional evidence of this.

Keytronic was a huge manufacturer of keyboards during the late 80s and early 90s, BTW.  Or ... maybe they only seemed huge to me as I grew up in the vicinity, so they were getting the benefit of additional local support.

[IBI]

One of these second tier Keyboard Manufacturers is NOT going to make it through the recession - Unicomp, Keytronic, DSI, and/or TG3 (Deck).  If your favorite keyboard is on this list I'd suggest buying a spare.  Make sure you use a credit card, no Paypal.

It seems like Strong Man may already have gone bust.

[Hak Foo]

IMO, Key Tronic could well be the surprise loser.

What do they have right now, both in terms of a market and of product differentiation.

TS3-Deck has the modder freak.  Theirs is probably the best of the illuminated keyboards, plus there's the embedded market they service.

Unicomp has the Model M Nostalgia market, and their existing market featuring "we need a 122 board for our app" customers.

DSI, looking at their site, sells a lot of rubbish-- those roll-up keyboards, multimedia keyboards-- which provide plenty of margin to keep their key products running.

But Key Tronic's products are inherently generic.  And their product line is actually narrower than Unicomp's (One basic design, in two layouts, with a trackball or two-port hub options).  Who will come to mourn them?

[rdjack21]

Found my Key Tronic keyboard it is a KT800PS2US-C which is an older version of the KT800P1. I will need to spend a little time on it  but on first pass the keys feel heaver than a Topre but they also have more tactile feed back I would almost say it feels more like a Model M than a Topre. But on the really bad side it just feels really cheap. By that I mean the thing is light as a feather and the whole keyboard flexes. Cheap thin plastic case. Even though it has good tactile feed back that feed back just feels fake and over done to compensate for the over all cheap feel to the rest of the board.

Also I don't think the model I have has weighted keys. Unlike my Topre board I can't tell any differance between any of the keys they all feel the same. On the Topre you can feel the differance even though it is sutle you can still feel it.

I think I will take this thing apart and see what is inside when I get a chance.

[willhs]

By cheap do you mean it feels cheap when you are typing on it, or cheap when you lift it?

[rdjack21]

By cheap do you mean it feels cheap when you are typing on it, or cheap when you lift it?

Actually a little of both. I think if they made the case more solid it would not be a bad board. But as it is it the keys just feel over done which adds up to the over all cheap feel of the board. But then again for someone that has not typed on or gotten used to a quality board would probably think it is far better than what they have and it is much better than just about any of the rubber dome boards I've typed on. But from my reference point comparing it against a Topre or even a Filco it just feels like a cheap board but a good cheap board, it does not have the mushy feeling most rubber domes have.

I really need to plug it in and type on it more to get a better feeling for it.

[willhs]

I'm pretty intrigued by this board, so I put in an order (only $35) for the Designer and it's already shipped!  Should get it in a few days and post some thoughts.  And you're right, the model you are using doesn't have the variable force membrane, or at least not the same one as the Designer.  I've never used the Topre, so I won't have a frame of reference, though.

[rdjack21]

I'm pretty intrigued by this board, so I put in an order (only $35) for the Designer and it's already shipped!  Should get it in a few days and post some thoughts.  And you're right, the model you are using doesn't have the variable force membrane, or at least not the same one as the Designer.  I've never used the Topre, so I won't have a frame of reference, though.

The one I have is not a bad board especially for the price you get them for. But like I said once you have typed on a really good board be that a Filco or one of the Topre boards it just feels cheap. But if you haven't typed on one of those you will most likely like it. I used one for many years and it was the only board I would use until I started down the path of mechanical keyboards. Now well I could use one and my fingers would not be to teribly upset with me but my keyboard tastes have now become more refined and I prefer Tenderloin versas Serlion but then again Serlion is better than hamberger.

Tenderrloin = Topre
T-Bone/Porterhouse = Filco
Hamburger = Key Tronic, Scorpious M10 (Mostly becuase it has quality issues)  
Spam (The type in a can) = Crappy rubber domes (feels like mush to your fingers)

EDIT: Oh forgot to add do let us know what you think of it when you get it. Especially if you how you feel about the key action Light/Heavy. Also if all you have typed on is crappy rubber domes you should be happy with it if it feels like mine.

EDIT 2: Updated the listing of meat to keyboard. I just love a good Hamburger and no way a Crappy rubber dome is a Hamburger. See down a couple for a good ripster picture of what is meant by Spam ... LOL. And to be honest I like Hamburger better than Serlion unless of course you make Hambuger out of the Serlion then it is good.

[itlnstln]

I like hamburgers, though.

[rdjack21]

Me too - how about Crappy Rubber Dome =

Show Image

LOL I like that one... I will edit the previous post for crappy rubber domes

[itlnstln]

(should keep a pocketful of nickels with me at all times - :biggrin:)

"Excuse me, sir.  What the f*ck are you doing?  Security... Security!"

[itlnstln]

Yeah, it was weird because my Home Depot has sent everyone through this crash "Customer Service" program. I'm used to being left alone and not having all these smiling employees asking me if I need help.
 
If I want chipper employees I go to Starbucks.
 
True to style though I had to ask twice to find some plexiglass since the first guy sent me to the wrong part of the store. THEN the second guy wanted me to identify the first employee that sent me to the wrong place - I refused - my Mama told me not to snitch.

 
I had a part time job at Home Depot once.  They were the absolute worst when it came to Customer Service.  They also have some of the crappiest merchandising and cleanliness.  Horrible company.  I try to shop at Lowes whenever I can.

[rdjack21]

I was just at Home Depot and they have a keytronic with a trackball for filling out customer surveys.  Felt nothing like a Topre - but definite tactile bump.  Lots of contractors with greasy hands probably didn't help it none but at least it seemed to be working  fine.  Not as light as Topre by any means.  (should keep a pocketful of nickels with me at all times - :biggrin:)

Yep sounds similar to mine heaver then a Topre and not as smooth but a definite tactile bump. I actually think the feel is more like the Model M (Heavy very distinct tactile bump) but quite.

I'm hopping I get some time to take mine apart this weekend. I will try put some nickels on it and see how heavy it really is.

[megarat]

IMO, Key Tronic could well be the surprise loser.

But Key Tronic's products are inherently generic.  And their product line is actually narrower than Unicomp's (One basic design, in two layouts, with a trackball or two-port hub options).  Who will come to mourn them?

But in a bland market, there's a lot of market strength to be had in being generic.

[rdjack21]

Show Image

Stopped at a headshop after my son got his haircut (he likes Tie-die t-shirts) and got the elegant version of the RipOmeter. $3.

Same result (Blue Cherry Filco) in a more elegant package.  Only other one they had was 100g though so I'll still need to keep a couple of nickels around.

"Sir - the metal detector senses something - empty your pockets sir.  What's that.  Hands up.  SIR, I SAID HANDS UP!!!"

Nice but if you really want to do this right you need something more like this
   
Class 1 calibration weight set (WTSET21PC1C) consists of 21 pieces ranging from 1mg to 100 grams, ASTM Shape, includes Report of Traceability and Certificate of Calibration.

[willhs]

Well gents, I got the board already and have done some preliminary typing on it.  I will have to spend a large amount of time with it before putting together a worthy review, but my initial impressions are very, very good.  I've been typing on the Scorpius M10 for the past few months, and I've used a Model M before.

My first impression, right off the bat, is that it is awesome.  It actuates very high for a membrane board, which is surprisingly unlike the cherry blues which in my experience actuate about halfway or more.  It definitely has a tactile feel reminiscent of the Model M, but MUCH lighter, closer to the blues in weight.  There is definitely a big difference between the weighting of the keys, and I'm really digging it.

Not sure how to put it into words since my palate of keyboards isn't as broad as most forum viewers, but this is just "smoother" than the cherry blues but with more of a tactile feel and less of a "clicky" sound.  To my fingers, the cherry blues make a very neat click, but don't really tell your fingers that the key has been actuated, and you just keep on going until you bottom out.  This is more of an instant feeling that you pressed the key WITHOUT much of a noise, and it's much easier to not bottom out.  AND when you do bottom out, you are hitting a nice soft membrane instead of hard plastic.

That's my initial take.  I mostly just wanted to type.  I'm sure it's not popular to say that membrane is better than cherry blue.  :-)  There is really no comparison between this Keytronic and any other membrane board I've ever used.

Is there anyone else on this forum who has this keyboard?

[willhs]

Oh, and the cheapest way to buy it is either direct from Buy.com for $35 shipped

http://www.buy.com/prod/keytronic-designer-p2-keyboard-ps-2-104-keys-black-keytronic-designer/q/loc/101/203922385.html

Or, I bought it from them via their ebay store to make use of the Microsoft bing.com cashback of 8% (slashed off $2.80... not that big of a deal).

[D-EJ915]

nice price, it's dumb that the "low" mode on the designer is absolutely useless.  wish the bottom row wasn't as high either but guess we can't have everything

[rdjack21]

Not sure how to put it into words since my palate of keyboards isn't as broad as most forum viewers, but this is just "smoother" than the cherry blues but with more of a tactile feel and less of a "clicky" sound.  To my fingers, the cherry blues make a very neat click, but don't really tell your fingers that the key has been actuated, and you just keep on going until you bottom out.  This is more of an instant feeling that you pressed the key WITHOUT much of a noise, and it's much easier to not bottom out.  AND when you do bottom out, you are hitting a nice soft membrane instead of hard plastic.

You did just fine putting it into words. I tend to agree with you that the Key Tronic is smother than the cherry blues and quite a bit more tactile feed back. I also tend to bottom out the blues as well. Yes a very quite board almost as quite as a Topre but not quite, it is not nearly as tight as a Topre but it is close.

That's my initial take.  I mostly just wanted to type.  I'm sure it's not popular to say that membrane is better than cherry blue.  :-)  There is really no comparison between this Keytronic and any other membrane board I've ever used.

Yea it is not a popular opion that there can be a rubber dome as good as a mechanical board. But then again the Topre is also not a mechanical switch board either and I prefer it over all the other mechanical boards. I just might have to get myself one of the weighted models to see how close it comes to a Topre. Oh and I know that feeling of just wanting to type on the new board.

I've been typing on mine a bit too and I pretty much agree with him in that the Key Tronic does feel better than the Cheery Blues but is quiter than the Browns. The one I have though has a heaver action that what willhs describes so I guess I going to be getting another board to try out. But even with that said I still like the Topre better I guess I will see if I have the same opionon after getting the weighted one.

[willhs]

Did some research last night and there are several boards that use the weighted membrane... I just googled "site:keytronic.com ergo technology" and it pulled up ~10 boards.  Didn't check their availablility or cost, but I did see a really cool looking Mac board that's reminiscent of the old iMacs.  :-)

Adding to my impression, this board is extremely lightweight and uses a curved plastic back to achieve the kind of stadium seating on the keys.  I'm fairly certain the there is no metal strip in the board, but the plastic has some reinforcement to it and I am unable to bend the board (which I can do with the Scorpius, despite it being a little heavier).  I would bet that the Topre has a more substantial feel to it.

[rdjack21]

Did some research last night and there are several boards that use the weighted membrane... I just googled "site:keytronic.com ergo technology" and it pulled up ~10 boards.  Didn't check their availablility or cost, but I did see a really cool looking Mac board that's reminiscent of the old iMacs.  :-)

Adding to my impression, this board is extremely lightweight and uses a curved plastic back to achieve the kind of stadium seating on the keys.  I'm fairly certain the there is no metal strip in the board, but the plastic has some reinforcement to it and I am unable to bend the board (which I can do with the Scorpius, despite it being a little heavier).  I would bet that the Topre has a more substantial feel to it.

They must have put in some extra plastic because mine is really easy to twist. That is one of the reasons I say it has a cheap feel because the board flexes. If they have fixed this then the board may not have such a cheap feel to it. I just wish they offered a mini or small size board. Every thing they have are full size. I will get one just to see how this new ergo board feels. But I can't order one until next week have get a HHKB Pro first

[willhs]

Okay, it took 10 nickels to actuate the F key, so it's slightly heavier than the Topre, but not by very much, and I find that I quite like the level of resistance.  I put in a lot of QT today, typing up a lot of documents I've been putting off.  :-)

So far, so good.  Very positive experience.  I will try to sell the Scorpius (vs a trade) in the next few days here...

[willhs]

Yeah the reviews on Amazon and Buy.com are also universally awesome.  I'm sort of surprised this keyboard is so seemingly obscure... maybe they just need to sex it up a little bit.  The cheesy "Best Keyboard in the World!" on the box doesn't exactly inspire confidence, but I must say this thing is just a joy to type on.

[willhs]

Wow, actually you can pick up a really good looking board with the ergo technology for only $15 from NewEgg.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823131060

Damn...

[timw4mail]

Wow, actually you can pick up a really good looking board with the ergo technology for only $15 from NewEgg.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823131060

Damn...

That's still a membrane, but they say "membrane switch".  I doubt its anything more than a weighted rubber dome board.

[rdjack21]

Wow, actually you can pick up a really good looking board with the ergo technology for only $15 from NewEgg.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823131060

Damn...

That looks like the newer one of what I have. And judging from the price I bet just a cheaply built as well. That does not mean it is not a nice keyboard but I can't stand a board that flexes. Also on Key Tronic's web site it does not mention that this board has ergo technology. All the other ergo Tech boards are more expensive than this one. I bet newegg just got the description wrong they do that allot.

Link to Key Tronic for the above board: http://www.keytronic.com/home/products/specs/kt800p1.htm

[willhs]

@timw4mail:  Yeah, the ergo boards are a membrane that has different weighting, similar to the Topre (though I haven't tried a Topre).

@rdjack, yeah Newegg screws up descriptions sometimes.  If anyone's really interested in a cheaper weighted board, maybe email them first to verify that.  Otherwise, this $35 board is truly amazing.

[rdjack21]

@timw4mail:  Yeah, the ergo boards are a membrane that has different weighting, similar to the Topre (though I haven't tried a Topre).

If you had tried a Topre board you would not be typing on a Key Tronic. But then again the price you have to pay for a Topre may not be worth it to you. And I do hope that there is a possibility of a fairly good quality board out there with weighted keys. Because quite a few people would like to have one. Oh well I'm going to get one and check it out but that is a few weeks off yet.

@rdjack, yeah Newegg screws up descriptions sometimes.  If anyone's really interested in a cheaper weighted board, maybe email them first to verify that.  Otherwise, this $35 board is truly amazing.

Emailing newegg will do you no good. All they will verify is vendor part number and then tell you to call the vendor. They have description and tech specs wrong all over the site and all they will do is tell you to verify with the vendor. What's nutty even after you tell them they have a problem they still don't fix it. I will give them this though they will refund your money if the product is not as described.

[keyb_gr]

Today I had a look at one keyboard gathering dust here in the lab, turns out it's a KT2001. It's a fairly light, not too imprecise, moderately springy rubber dome. Not outright exciting, mind you, but a little better than a Dell (Silitek) SK-3203.

[rdjack21]

Today I had a look at one keyboard gathering dust here in the lab, turns out it's a KT2001. It's a fairly light, not too imprecise, moderately springy rubber dome. Not outright exciting, mind you, but a little better than a Dell (Silitek) SK-3203.

Yea the Key Tronic boards are not too bad for a rubber dome board. And like you said they are not exciting but not bad. Now if they would just raise the quality level of the plastics used and made said plastic thicker they would be a little better.

[Milquetoast]

The mid-nineties Key Tronics used were more solidly built. The newer ones are definitely more flimsy, however they still have, in my opinion, the best action of any membrane keyboard, period.

This is probably heresy here, but I actually like the action better than on my Dell AT101W, because Key Tronics have a definite tactile "snap", which happens right at the moment the key press is registered (the Dell still sounds way cooler, though).

I'm sure my cubemates would probably shiv me in the spleen after a couple of hours of exposure to mechanical keyswitches, so I use an E03600 at work. It's basically almost exactly like a Model M in shape and size, with the straight return key and the large backspace (as God intended).

I'm sure they do alright as an OEM and such, but it would be nice if Key Tronic would sex up their line with something more modern. I'd really like to see a compact design like the Filcos, with the ergo layout.

If you're wondering if the ergo thing is really noticable, check out adjacent keys with big force differences, like the keypad 7 and numlock. You'll notice the difference (even it doesn't provide any real benefit, the difference is there.)

[willhs]

Today I had a look at one keyboard gathering dust here in the lab, turns out it's a KT2001. It's a fairly light, not too imprecise, moderately springy rubber dome. Not outright exciting, mind you, but a little better than a Dell (Silitek) SK-3203.

Did you try typing for an extended period on it?  I've been using mine constantly since I got it, and I absolutely love it.  I've definitely found a difference between the keys, and I think it affects my typing -- if you really pay attention while typing, the pinkey keys are a lot easier to manage than the center keys, but the center keys are weighted really well for tactile response.  I've typed on model Ms many a time, and this is like a refined version of that.

I totally agree that they should come out with a slimmed down sexy Das-ish keyboard (without the shinyness...).  I would bet that the uber keyboard market is probably not worth the time of a giant corporation in terms of margin and overall profit, but maybe I'm wrong.  I'm thinking about buying one of the cheaper boards with the ergo and seeing if I can mod it.  Would be a fun project.

[keyb_gr]

Did you try typing for an extended period on it?

Not on this dirty thing. It would need a good cleaning first, and I didn't feel much like doing that.

[rdjack21]

I'm thinking about buying one of the cheaper boards with the ergo and seeing if I can mod it.  Would be a fun project.

From my perspective the DESIGNER-P2 at $59.99 Direct from Key Tronic is a cheap keyboard. Yea I know that is not the case for most people but my idea of expensive has changed since I joined this forum.

I've just purchased another $200+ keyboard and am already looking at another one. I just knew I should not have taken that red pill If I did not need to save a little money for vacation (later this month) I would be getting a DESIGNER-P2 as well but it looks like that will have to wait until August.