Need help finding the right keyboard!

[RTsa]

Hello everyone!

Okay, so my old KeyTronic keyboard is failing me and I was thinking of getting a decent keyboard to replace it. I think I'm looking for something quite specific so I thought this would be the best place to ask when I found it. Partly copy & pasting from another forum I asked this on. They couldn't help much, though.

1) Swedish / Finnish QWERTY key layout with numpad.
2) NKRO. Not neccessarily full NKRO but preferrably something like 10 or more, though I might have to go with a lower number (6KRO is highest for USB?) if there simply ain't alternatives.
3) WIRED - as in, NOT wireless.
4) NOT a freaky "ergonimic" model

# 1, 2, 3 and 4 are a must. The following are a big plus, almost required, but perhaps not all of them.

5) USB port(s). Having the possibility to attach a flash stick to the keyboard rather than going down under the desk is intriguing. (I can't be bothered to get a separate USB hub, at least, not for now) I'm guessing this won't be possible if the keyboard is PS/2 with full NKRO?
6) Mechanical switches or otherwise high quality keys - I'm going to be mostly gaming with the keyboard, but I also write stuff pretty much every day.
7) Good looks are preferred, but not 100% neccessary. (I don't want loads of distracting flashing lights, a simple design is usually better, backlighting that can be switched off might be cool?)
Not ridiculously expensive, please!
(more than 200€ is definitely too much, even if it has everything described above + more)

From what I've been searching so far, it seems that #1 and #2 are the most limiting factors. Thanks for reading!
Any suggestions?

edit: Das Keyboard looks to have pretty much everything I'm looking for, but I'm not 100% sure the keyboard layout is right. Ultimate version is blank and the Professional version is US layout only. I *could* probably go for the Ultimate version, but I've also read that there've been problems with its NKRO. (they advertise it as 12 key, so that'd be enough if it actually works like that)

[ch_123]

Funnily enough, almost exactly the same discussion was had in this thread. Might be worth reading, basically the conclusion the OP came to was to get a US layout Filco and use the Finnish layout with it.

Another alternative is to drop the n-key rollover requirement and get a Unicomp (reasonably cheap with overseas shipping, and available with all sorts of layouts on request). I've done plenty of gaming with a Unicomp and never had any problems with it. It seems that some cheap rubber dome keyboards are really badly designed and the rollover problem shows up much worse than a keyboard lke the Unicomp which only has 2 key rollover. Unless of course you are a WoW player in which case I don't know how the Unicomp will take to all that button mashing.

Finally, I'll tell you one board that possibly meets all your requirements - the Steelseries 7G. The only problem with it is that it uses Linear switches, so while it's great for games, it's not all that great to do a load of typing on. That said, you sound like the gaming type so it may be just what you need.

[takasta]

You could try going for the FILCO series of keyboards, either blue or brown key switches, they seem to fit the match for a keyboard that you may want. NKRO only works when you connect through PS/2 because USB limits to 6 keys that is correct, I haven't seen an instance where it isn't so yet. If you haven't used mechanical switch keyboards before, blue cherry keys are a good way to go.

[RTsa]

Thanks for the replies.

US layout Flico..doesn't sound too appealing TBH. Having false inscriptions on the keys could be rather confusing for me.



OK, so USB limits to 6KRO, but they advertise Das Keyboard to have 12KRO. Is it just false advertising or what? Do they count the maximum number of keys they can register down at the same time? Also still wondering if the EU layout can be used as Finnish layout on that keyboard.





Is that the handrest that's so huge in it? As in, it's also possible to have it on the desk without it? Info page says: "and features two USB port" - so do I need to have an extra cable (if I use PS/2 for full NKRO [which they also don't mention on the site] and USB for the hub?) Also, Z-Board seems to have USB 1.1 ports and I'm guessing the 7G also has only those. That's a pain..

[RTsa]

6 is most likely indeed good enough for single player gaming. (hell, I only have 5 fingers in one hand so I doubt I'll be pressing more than 6 keys at the same time )
Multiplayer on one computer (which I admit, won't be doing too much..) might need more than 6 though. (so far I've been using a 4KRO keyboard and I rarely run into a problem with it)

Is the USB limit that 5 keys register correctly and the 6th one doesn't?

[RTsa]

KK, so USB is enough. Anyone have any info about Das Keyboard's problems? Or should I email them?

Apparently 7G's USB ports are 1.1, which aren't really worth much. So in that regard Das Keyboard would win. However, I've also read some people have had problems with Das KB's USB ports. :|

[IBI]

Is the USB limit that 5 keys register correctly and the 6th one doesn't?

Six non-modifier keys register and the seventh doesn't, on top of that you can have up to eight modifier keys (left shift, right shift, left control, alt etc.

The large bit at the front of the 7g is indeed a removable wrist rest.

Raptor-Gaming's K1 and, I believe, Razer's top model both max out USB when it comes to rollover as well and both are availible in the UK so you may be able to get in in a finnish layout. The Razer uses scissor switches which I don't know the quality of and the K1 uses Cherry MX switches; Mine had black ones like the steelseries 7g but others have had brown.

(so far I've been using a 4KRO keyboard and I rarely run into a problem with it)

Oh, which keyboard is that? I don't think anyone here has found a keyboard that blocks on 4 or 5 keys before, usually it's 3, 7 or no blocking at all.

[fuzzybyte]

you could try asking Unicomp or CHERRY to make you keyboard with custom layout.
In the Unicomp web page it says to contact them to get a one with custom layout. I'm not sure but I also remember reading here that Unicomp doesn't ship USB keyboards, only ps2, overseas for now for some reason.
I know for sure that at least CHERRY has some keyboards with exotic layouts like german and UK, so they'll probably make you a one in finnish too if you ask nicely.

btw, if you change your mind about FILCOs then I can sell you one (with brown cherries) here in Finland for cheaper price than buying one from abroad.

[ch_123]

OK, so USB limits to 6KRO, but they advertise Das Keyboard to have 12KRO. Is it just false advertising or what? Do they count the maximum number of keys they can register down at the same time?

In addition to some NKRO problems, there's also some pretty serious ghosting issues (ie. hitting one key, and getting another) so that's why the Das is not recommended.

Also still wondering if the EU layout can be used as Finnish layout on that keyboard.

What do you mean by that? The layout is dictated by your OS not the keyboard. So if you have your computer set to your layout of choice, the keyboard will use it.

[keyb_gr]

Anyone have any info about Das Keyboard's problems?

You will find a longish thread about these here.

The Swedish/Finnish keyboard layout could be a problem. Not even Cherry G80s are offered like that (only G81s). Otherwise these might be a decent inexpensive option; they are, in general, the least expensive mechanical keyboards you can get in Europe (with some choice of switches, too - blacks, blues or clears for the -3000 formfactor). They don't do NKRO though, but the IBM-style matrix isn't too bad.

[lal]

I'm not sure but I also remember reading here that Unicomp doesn't ship USB keyboards, only ps2, overseas for now for some reason.

They shipped an USB Customizer to me earlier this year w/o problems.  Maybe this restriction pertains only to specific models.

I know for sure that at least CHERRY has some keyboards with exotic layouts like german

Exotic?  WTF?!

[Hak Foo]

I think it's just the EnduraPro they can't ship overseas.  America is afraid of losing their lead in eraser-pointer technology.

[ch_123]

Yeah, only the USB EnduraPro is affected.

[timw4mail]

I think it's just the EnduraPro they can't ship overseas.  America is afraid of losing their lead in eraser-pointer technology.

Not that I think it would be such a horrible loss...I hate those things.

[RTsa]

Oh, which keyboard is that? I don't think anyone here has found a keyboard that blocks on 4 or 5 keys before, usually it's 3, 7 or no blocking at all.

TBH I just threw that 4 in there as a guess right now because I haven't tested my desktop KB (and can't right now because it's ~40km away). My laptop is clearly 3KRO (QW blocks E) and with this I noticed a lot more problems gaming than the desktop KB. However, if it was 7KRO, I certainly wouldn't have noticed a problem with it - hence the guess it was 4. However, it could be that the matrix is just better and the WASD area is better routed. I'll check it out when I go back to the apartment after summer.
(clever readers perhaps noticed that the above also means I'm in no hurry to obtain a new keyboard..)

What do you mean by that? The layout is dictated by your OS not the keyboard. So if you have your computer set to your layout of choice, the keyboard will use it.

Ah, ok. I thought that would probably be the case. Thanks for clearing it up!

I also noticed the classifieds ad about the FLICO keyboard. I'll do some more searching, comparing and research first, though.

I'll check out the keyboards mentioned here when I come back from work. Thanks for the input.

edit: Okay, so now I have my options here:

Das Keyboard
-Teh problem
-Ghost problems
-Other problem(s) related to the USB power

Raptor-Gaming K1
-really don't like the "squeezed in" kind of layout, K2 is apparently non-mechanical
-USB ports are 1.1

Flico
-No Fin/Swe layout
-No USB hub

Steelseries 7G
-Only complaint I can see would probably be that USB ports are only 1.1

So unless I see something like Das Keyboard IV coming out soon with everything fixed, I'll probably be going for the 7G. I can even get it from a local shop here in Finland and it's not that expensive at a little over 100€.

Huge thanks to everyone for help!

edit2: Hmm..7G also doesn't have fin/swe layout?
edit3: Got an email from a finnish retailer, it's got the finnish layout. It was confusing because they used the same pics that're on the steelseries webpage, which obviously don't have the finnish layout. Anyway, I'm happy now.

[exia]

Get a realforce keyboard