How come there is so much hate for key-wear?

[bsvP585hUO2Y6]

Reading up a bit on older threads, wear on keyscaps seems to be taken in
exclusively negative manner.  Am I the only one who finds keys that got
all shiny from wear and/or have lost or faded lettering quite
aesthetically pleasing?  Wear is the evidence of the megabytes entered
via the keyboard.  It also adds a strong personal touch to keyboards,
since the wear is not simply boolean, but is coined differently on each
key.  E.g., an uninitiated might be puzzled how capslock on my boards
could have earned its place among the shiniest ones.

If I understand the Wikipedia-Article on Wabi-sabi[1] correctly, the
Japanese seem to have the word "Sabi" for aesthetics in wear:

,----
| Sabi is beauty or serenity that comes with age, when the life of the
| object and its impermanence are evidenced in its patina and wear, or in
| any visible repairs.
`----

Footnotes:
[1]  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wabi-sabi

[keyb_gr]

That's a good question from the metaphysical department.

My guess in terms of an explanation would be: People generally like what they cannot have easily, and keeping things shiny and new (or in this case, new and not shiny) sure is more difficult than wearing them down.

For the fashion geeks there still is "pre-worn" clothing, which is just ridiculous if you think about it - back in the olden days, getting things worn was no problem, but today it apparently makes for some contrast...

Keyboards showing their age do have some charm, that's true. There's something romantic about using a board that has stood the test of time yet still works perfectly (which is more than one can say about a number of today's models). Not a big fan of worn-off lettering though (this shouldn't happen in Real Keyboards[tm]).

[timw4mail]

I don't mind key wear.  Only thing that bugs me is that it seems to be pennies more for dye sublimation over pad printing.  There was a member here who got volume quotes and the difference in cost was trivial.  

Anybody here know if you can use Dye Sublimation on BLACK keys though with white lettering??   Probably not, and that explains the "Topre" look.

Hmm...could you explain the other methods of lettering? So far I'm only understanding the double-shot molding and dye-sublimation.

[lowpoly]

,----
| Sabi is beauty or serenity that comes with age, when the life of the
| object and its impermanence are evidenced in its patina and wear, or in
| any visible repairs.
`----

Age is the keyword here. The kind of wear that is usually frowned upon here is when it happens to a relatively new board.

[MsKeyboard]

Ripster,
Key color does not matter when it comes to sublimation, just type of resin.

Later.......

[Mercen_505]

Key wear offends my delicate sensibilities, and is not tolerated in my house

[keyb_gr]

Age is the keyword here. The kind of wear that is usually frowned upon here is when it happens to a relatively new board.

Good point.

(Now that I'm thinking about it, seems like I only have boards of 7 years minimum. The average age of my "official" boards apparently is 15.5 years.)

[alpslover]

also, when one pays upwards of $100, $200, or even $300 for a premium keyboard, one has a reasonable expectation of a certain minimum level of quality, and this includes the keycap printing.

will people who buy new 'pre-worn' jeans buy new keyboards with 'pre-worn' keycaps?

[Ulysses31]

I don't like things to show wear if I take a lot of pride in them, or if they wear more quickly than expected.  For instance i'd love my wrist-watch to have that same gleam it had originally, instead of the myriad tiny scratches it has now, causing it to look a little dull.  A keyboard on the other hand isn't something I look at to use for the most part, so a little wear isn't intolerable.  As long as it's clean, it looks OK.  I don't think Wabi Sabi really applies to mass-produced, mechanically created items.  If it were a hand-crafted wooden keyboard with knots and brush strokes, then perhaps it would have the necessary "human touch".

[bhtooefr]

While I don't care for the legends wearing off, I actually PREFER key wear on ThinkPads. When they get shiny, they actually get grippier.

[Mr.6502]

I believe an object that serves a purpose and slowly shows the marks of a long and useful life is very appealing.  I buy and build things with the intention of having them for a very long time.  Showing wear because of extensive, prolonged use is not an issue.  Showing wear because of cheap or faulty manufacture definitely is.

[nanu]

Much of the contention as I know regards functionality rather than aesthetics.

I mind key label wear and key surface wear because even if it's normal it isn't ideal.  Or because it's normal, I don't mind it to the extent that I wouldn't really have an audience to complain about it outside of a forum seemingly dedicated to keyboarding.  Sure, I accept erosion as a natural process, but the things I see in my dreams reminds me how horrible real life is.

Shoes can be broken into, but a broken-into keycap doesn't feel good.  The original presence of texture is always best.  If shiny keys were good keycaps would be fabricated like that from the start, and most people should hate shiny keys.  You wouldn't get tires or shoes that have lost their grip, why would anyone want slick and sticky key surfaces?

[bhtooefr]

Shoes can be broken into, but a broken-into keycap doesn't feel good.

To some people. Like I said, I prefer broken-into keycaps on a ThinkPad.

[YpoCaramel]

Depends. Sometimes you want a worn, ripped pair of jeans, sometimes you want an immaculate suit. For my computer though, I'd want the suit.

[cmr]

Reading up a bit on older threads, wear on keyscaps seems to be taken in
exclusively negative manner.  Am I the only one who finds keys that got
all shiny from wear and/or have lost or faded lettering quite
aesthetically pleasing?  Wear is the evidence of the megabytes entered
via the keyboard.  It also adds a strong personal touch to keyboards,
since the wear is not simply boolean, but is coined differently on each
key.  E.g., an uninitiated might be puzzled how capslock on my boards
could have earned its place among the shiniest ones.

If I understand the Wikipedia-Article on Wabi-sabi[1] correctly, the
Japanese seem to have the word "Sabi" for aesthetics in wear:

,----
| Sabi is beauty or serenity that comes with age, when the life of the
| object and its impermanence are evidenced in its patina and wear, or in
| any visible repairs.
`----

Footnotes:
[1]  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wabi-sabi

you must be a go player.

[huha]

I recently got a G80-1000HAD. Didn't try out the keyboard yet (hand-cleaning keycaps of two keyboards is a real pain and I don't want to continue to the actual cases right now), but I do like the keycaps. They're white and just slightly yellowed, which looks just great. It does remind me of ivory. They're really beautiful, even when they're slightly yellowed.

-huha

[keyb_gr]

Actually old G80 keycaps are light beige. Trust me, the case will yellow long before the keys do.

[huha]

My keycaps have yellowed a bit. They're slightly more yellowish on the top than on the sides, so there you go.

-huha

[keyb_gr]

Only ever seen that on the Windows keys of the G80-3000HEMDE, the other ones haven't bothered. May have been oxygen rather than light related. Late-'90s bicolor G81 keys do not yellow very much in any case - I was able to mix ones from a NIB sample and another with a heavily yellowed case with it being barely noticeable.

[sixty]

On the topic of keywear.. I found these pictures on a Chinese keyboard website.. this apparently is a tenkeyless filco:




Besides this board being terribly dirty... WHAT ABOUT THIS KEYWEAR? I'm really scared now. I've seen the picture of Majestouch's 3 year old Filco which looked nothing like this.

So there are only two things I can hope: a) This was one of the very first Filcos and they changed their coating later .. or b) This guy tried to make blank keycaps and fiddled with this. I don't want my Filco to end up like this in 5 years.

PS: On his pictures you can actually see the various layers on the key.. including the thin layer of the mysterious "filco magic juice" coating.

[alpslover]

PS: On his pictures you can actually see the various layers on the key.. including the thin layer of the mysterious "filco magic juice" coating.

i don't think that thin layer is a coating, it appears to be transparent decals, probably applied by the owner to minimize wear on the actual keys.  if you look closely you can see the sharply defined sides by the edges of the keytops and where it has 'worn'.  even though some of the lettering has been worn away despite the protective decals, we don't know the story behind this keyboard.

[timw4mail]

This is why there needs to be aluminum (or similar) keyboard keys.

[huha]

This is why there needs to be aluminum (or similar) keyboard keys.

Aluminium is not what you're after. As soon as the protective oxide layer is scraped off, it's not the best material if it gets abused a lot.
Stainless steel is a much better option. Hell, even a stainless steel keycap on plastic keys (think IBM Model M) would work fine.
If you're especially harsh, I'd directly go for titanium, though. But this might be stupidly expensive ... on the other hand, titanium has become somewhat of a fad in recent years--even my laptop's lid is a titanium plate (which I don't want, because Thinkpads just ought to be black. This particular model was a special offer, so no option to get rid of the titanium plate ...)--so it might not be that expensive at all. Another advantage of titanium is the ease to anodize it. Contrary to aluminium, electrically anodized protective layers on titanium are so small you'll get all kinds of funky colours due to refraction. Beats RIT dye, in my opinion.

-huha

[itlnstln]

It looks like user that posted those pics has a bad case of dirty hands.  I have never seen a keyboard (even cheap, POS 'boards) with that kind of wear.

[timw4mail]

Aluminium is not what you're after. As soon as the protective oxide layer is scraped off, it's not the best material if it gets abused a lot.
Stainless steel is a much better option. Hell, even a stainless steel keycap on plastic keys (think IBM Model M) would work fine.
If you're especially harsh, I'd directly go for titanium, though. But this might be stupidly expensive ... on the other hand, titanium has become somewhat of a fad in recent years--even my laptop's lid is a titanium plate (which I don't want, because Thinkpads just ought to be black. This particular model was a special offer, so no option to get rid of the titanium plate ...)--so it might not be that expensive at all. Another advantage of titanium is the ease to anodize it. Contrary to aluminium, electrically anodized protective layers on titanium are so small you'll get all kinds of funky colours due to refraction. Beats RIT dye, in my opinion.

-huha

I wonder how copper keycaps would look...

But now I'm just being silly.

[huha]

I wonder how copper keycaps would look...

But now I'm just being silly.

Copper keycaps should be one of the coolest looking things on the planet--when they're new. As soon as it comes in contact with your hands, it'll inevitably oxidize, which turns it black. Black's not bad either, but it doesn't really look that nice any more and it's not exactly healthy, copper being a heavy metal and all.
You don't get these problems with brass or bronze.

-huha

[itlnstln]

Lead keycaps, FTW.

[ch_123]

I wonder how copper keycaps would look....

Ever seen the Statue of Liberty? That's what your keyboard would end up like

Lead keycaps, FTW.

Depleted Uranium keycaps FTW.

I guess you would have had to have seen the appropriate thread to get that one.

[timw4mail]

Copper keycaps should be one of the coolest looking things on the planet--when they're new. As soon as it comes in contact with your hands, it'll inevitably oxidize, which turns it black. Black's not bad either, but it doesn't really look that nice any more and it's not exactly healthy, copper being a heavy metal and all.
You don't get these problems with brass or bronze.

-huha

Copper actually is an essential mineral, though. Copper jewelry isn't exactly dangerous.

Oh, and I think the green patina would look awesome on a keyboard.

[bhtooefr]

Concrete keycaps. That's actually been done before.

Anyway, the funny thing about that titanium cover... every T20 and newer ThinkPad other than some R series models has had two or more of the following:

Titanium/ABS "alloy" LCD cover
Magnesium base
Titanium/ABS "alloy" base
Magnesium "roll cage"
Magnesium LCD cover
Carbon fiber base

I BELIEVE the 60 series models on up (except for some Rs and the SL) have the roll cage, the Ts and Ws have the carbon fiber base, and they all have a Ti/ABS LCD cover.

[msiegel]

speaking of shiny keycaps... what ever happened to those nice shiny keycaps the old terminals used to have?

keycaps have gone matte these days, but i don't remember anything being wrong with the old shiny ones.

[timw4mail]

speaking of shiny keycaps... what ever happened to those nice shiny keycaps the old terminals used to have?

keycaps have gone matte these days, but i don't remember anything being wrong with the old shiny ones.

Shiny tends to mean slippery. Most matte keycaps have some sort of texture to them.  But that's just my conjuncture...I really don't know.

[keyb_gr]

Actually the texture tends to lead to less friction (see shark's skin). I'd guess the main drawback is that, well, they're shiny. Non-diffuse reflections of light sources might be disturbing.

[huha]

I don't like shiny keycaps, as fingers tend to stick to them slightly, giving a very uneasy typing sensation. Back in the day when I still used crappy keyboards (I really don't know how I could ever fathom to buy an absolutely cheap rubber dome ... and work with it), I bought new ones when the keycaps started to get sticky.

-huha