What motherboard are you using with your 1391401?

[genegold]

Over at the Gigabyte forum, I've been involved in a fairly technical thread about the odd problem I've been having with this keyboard and a new motherboard (GA-MA790X-UD4P).  That problem is discussed here in another thread, "Odd problem with 1391401 and adapters." Of course, the Gigabyte experts are claiming that the problem stems from support for the Model M having been dropped in recent designs.  It's pretty hard to answer that from a sample of one.  Thus, for those of you using a 1391401, I'd be grateful - and it would probably be of some interest to others - if you would add to this thread by indicating what motherboard you're using, how old it is and what year Model M you have.  Thanks,

Gene

[watduzhkstand4]

I am running a P5Q Pro with mBios. I forgot what I'm running xD!

[bhtooefr]

I've had issues with an ASRock mobo, unknown model, circa 2006-2007, with a 1991 1391401 on PS/2. USB worked fine.

Anyway, I'm using my 1993 1391401 on a ~1998 Acorn 1208,000, works perfectly.

[genegold]

Not to be a pill but I'm failing to see the purpose of this.  Unless of course someone else has a motherboard that refuses to work with the Model M.    I think I'll post in the Gigabyte Forum that there is a rumor that Intel and AMD are dropping support of Gigabyte motherboards....

The computing setup thread is here.

The point is to see if others are using current boards and not having the problem.  It could - or could not - provide weight in discussing the matter with Gigabyte engineering or online support, if it comes to that.  After all, the question is, assuming the PSU is ok, whether or not Gigabyte did this intentionally or by lack of testing.  With a legacy device such as a keyboard, one starts with a hand behind the back.

[Hak Foo]

Over at the Gigabyte forum, I've been involved in a fairly technical thread about the odd problem I've been having with this keyboard and a new motherboard (GA-MA790X-UD4P).  That problem is discussed here in another thread, "Odd problem with 1391401 and adapters." Of course, the Gigabyte experts are claiming that the problem stems from support for the Model M having been dropped in recent designs.  It's pretty hard to answer that from a sample of one.  Thus, for those of you using a 1391401, I'd be grateful - and it would probably be of some interest to others - if you would add to this thread by indicating what motherboard you're using, how old it is and what year Model M you have.  Thanks,

Gene

I've briefly used a 1987 1391401 with my MA790X-UD4.

I used it with a USB-> PS/2 adaptor, which had a few glitches (it sent a extra keystroke after right shift-insert and other similar keystrokes), and direct (worked fine)

I've also used a '92 1391401 with an Asus M3A78

[keyb_gr]

Of course, the Gigabyte experts are claiming that the problem stems from support for the Model M having been dropped in recent designs.

Which would mean nothing less than that they skimped on PS/2 supply output current. Not exactly something new for Gigabyte - Voodoo jumpers, anyone?
Let's hope for the best though.

[low-fi]

My MSI Neo2-FR mobo (1-2 years old) fails to recognize a Model M if I happen to reboot my system. Belkin F5U119-E and some non-branded PS/2-to-USB-adapter didn't really help either. Never had problems with any other PS/2-keyboards.

I wouldn't be surprised if motherboard manufacturers just don't give a damn about their PS/2 ports' compatibility with legacy hardware -- after all, the Model M design is about 25 years (!) old. I assume the PS/2 compatibility will totally cease to exist in future hardware, not many years from now.

They discontinued supporting the game port a while ago; PS/2 will die too.

[timw4mail]

My Model M works fine with my DFI LP DK 790FX-M2RS, but my Model F doesn't, I have to use an additional USB adapter.

[IBI]

I am running a P5Q Pro with mBios. I forgot what I'm running xD!

My October 2008 Asus P5Q Pro has no problems either

[watduzhkstand4]

My OCtober 2008 Asus P5Q Pro has no problems either

Yea I really like this board. I never had any problems but I flashed to a mBios because I wanted to oc more and it does by a little bit.

[cmr]

MSI MS-7519

my 1391401 and AT-101W work fine on the PS/2 port and with a couple of generic USB adapters from Fry's

[Qwertyuiop]

I've used a 1991 1391401 (gray logo, a "real" 1391401 :tongue:) with an Intel DP43TF with no issues. The DP43TF is unfortunately one of the very few Intel boards that still has PS/2 ports.

The same keyboard appears to have issues with an older Intel board, the DP965LT, which won't always recognize the keyboard and/or a PS/2 mouse, and the event log shows "keyboard not detected" errors. I'm fairly certain it's the current draw as it happens more often if the BIOS is set to boot with numlock on, thus causing the extra current draw of the extra lit LED.

I borrowed a black Unicomp UB20416 (all black Customizer from 2003) which works though I got it to lock the mouse once with numlock on at boot; might've just been a random glitch though as I didn't get it to happen again.

Some of Intel's P4-era boards had this problem though it was fixed with a BIOS update. The latest BIOS for the DP965LT didn't change anything.

[CX23882]

My MSI MS-7368 (K9AG Neo2-Digital) works fine with the Greenock-produced Model M I have, and also worked with a Unicomp Customizer, both connected via PS/2. It has issues with the SGI AT101 but it's possible that the keyboard is faulty.

It's a good job that PS/2 works on this board, because USB is so broken (USB devices appearing as Unknown Device etc.). The reason I'm using my G80-3000 via PS/2 is because I got sick of it disappearing after sleep when it was connected via USB.

I never understand why PS/2 had to be replaced as part of the legacy-free movement. Replace the PS/2 mouse port, sure, (there are advantages to USB there) but the PS/2 keyboard has always worked more reliably than USB, and the sole benefit of hot-plugging is of no interest to the majority who have one keyboard and never change it.

[lal]

http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/archive/Lf.mspx:

Legacy-Free Hardware and BIOS Requirements
[...]
The basic goal for these requirements is that the operating system, devices, and end users cannot detect the presence of the following: ISA slots or devices; legacy floppy disk controller (FDC); and PS/2, serial, parallel, and game ports.

IMHO the whole legacy-free thing is a good idea in principle, i.e. getting rid of many different types of port, and replacing them with one single technology and connector, i.e. USB.  Too bad many manufacturers after all these years still don't get it right in their USB implementations.

For the record, I have an Asus A8N-E motherboard with Nvidia nForce 4 Ultra chipset and USB as well as legacy PS/2 ports from around 2005.  So far *none* of my PS/2 keyboards, including several Model Ms, gave me any trouble with this mobo.

[low-fi]

For the record, I have an Asus A8N-E motherboard with Nvidia nForce 4 Ultra chipset and USB as well as legacy PS/2 ports from around 2005.  So far *none* of my PS/2 keyboards, including several Model Ms, gave me any trouble with this mobo.

I think my previous computer build had that motherboard and indeed, Model M worked flawlessly.

[CX23882]

IMHO the whole legacy-free thing is a good idea in principle, i.e. getting rid of many different types of port, and replacing them with one single technology and connector, i.e. USB.  Too bad many manufacturers after all these years still don't get it right in their USB implementations.

I agree that legacy-free is a good idea, but there are some things that made sense to replace but the PS/2 keyboard port is not one of them.

I can see why replacing Serial and Parallel with a single connector is handy - rather than having a lot of space taken up by devices using different connectors, we just have one plug and one socket. So you could in theory share the same socket between your new USB printer and your USB whatever rather than having a huge parallel port for your printer and another port for your whatever. We're always going to need a keyboard, so you don't save any ports by sharing a connector.

Then there's the speed aspect. Parallel ports, even the ECP/EPP variety, were fine for printers but then we got cheap desktop scanners. Devices like that benefited greatly from USB, both in terms of speed and compatibility (I remember having to switch between Standard and EPP to get my paralle printer and parallel scanner to work respectively). But again, this is not needed for a PS/2 keyboard, and the move to USB made compatibility worse.

This is just based on my experience. If USB worked as it was intended to, I wouldn't mind. But it just doesn't, and it seems that we're going backwards rather than improving. My old Intel D815EEA worked great with USB keyboards/mice whereas the Dell Dimension E521 is a nightmare and the MS-7368 is somewhere in between.

[CX23882]

What's not to love about the gameport, especially having to re-calibrate analogue controllers daily, hardware resource conflicts, and limitations to the number of buttons that could be pressed simultaneously.  Good times.

[genegold]

I've briefly used a 1987 1391401 with my MA790X-UD4.

I used it with a USB-> PS/2 adaptor, which had a few glitches (it sent a extra keystroke after right shift-insert and other similar keystrokes), and direct (worked fine)

I've also used a '92 1391401 with an Asus M3A78

Most interesting.  That's especially helpful to know, since mine is a MA790X-UD4P, which came out a few months later and uses the same I/O chipset.  Perhaps 1989 was not a bad year for 1491401s...

I agree that legacy-free is a good idea, but there are some things that made sense to replace but the PS/2 keyboard port is not one of them.

I can see why replacing Serial and Parallel with a single connector is handy - rather than having a lot of space taken up by devices using different connectors, we just have one plug and one socket. ...Then there's the speed aspect. Parallel ports, even the ECP/EPP variety, were fine for printers but then we got cheap desktop scanners.

The UD4P comes w/o parallel port, which has given me a chance to compare USB with a PCI/Parallel card to a HP 4M printer.  Parallel wins the speed race hands down.

[genegold]

My MSI Neo2-FR mobo (1-2 years old) fails to recognize a Model M if I happen to reboot my system. Belkin F5U119-E and some non-branded PS/2-to-USB-adapter didn't really help either. Never had problems with any other PS/2-keyboards.

When you say, "fails to recognize..if I happen to reboot," are you referring to a complete shut down, followed by reboot within a short time?

[low-fi]

When you say, "fails to recognize..if I happen to reboot," are you referring to a complete shut down, followed by reboot within a short time?

Hm, I assume a restart from Windows/Linux doesn't shut the whole system down. A complete shut down would also cause a complete power-up procedure, which the system obviously doesn't do because the Model M isn't provided with enough juice anymore.

When I say "a reboot", I'm referring to the normal OS-controlled restart. If I just shut down / kill the machine and then turn it on again, the Model M works normally.

[genegold]

Hm, I assume a restart from Windows/Linux doesn't shut the whole system down. A complete shut down would also cause a complete power-up procedure, which the system obviously doesn't do because the Model M isn't provided with enough juice anymore.

When I say "a reboot", I'm referring to the normal OS-controlled restart. If I just shut down / kill the machine and then turn it on again, the Model M works normally.

I was trying to see how it compares to mine: OS reboot ok; reboot if the mains left on ok; reboot in a few seconds if mains turned off ok; reboot after a few seconds (~10 secs) if the mains turned off not ok (up to about 25-30 mins., when it becomes a cold reboot again).  You say yours won't OS reboot (restart); that's pretty weird.

[genegold]

While researching the dreaded "USB Device not recognized problem" a lot of people mentioned that unplugging the power supply might help.  I think you're still talking  the PS/2 port though.

Did you ever get the keyboard/dongle/USB combo to work reliably at bootup?

I never experienced the 'USB not recognized' problem.  Mine has to do with residual current/capacitance, presumably from the board, preventing reboot for 20-30 mins (if the mains were turned off more than a few seconds).  

With this model motherboard, the dongle/USB combo has the same problem that the direct PS/2 connection has.  I say that pending arrival of new PSU today.

[Mercen_505]

I don't know the model numbers off hand, but I have two ASUS mobos that were bought within the last year, and none of my keyboards give me any problems with them.