Complete Custom Keyboard Creation question...

[slickware]

Hi all.
I just signed up for this forum... honestly, I had no idea that people were this into keyboards. It's pretty amazing. I mean, I know the old IBM style keyboard has always been my favorite, and I died a little inside when mine finally gave up the ghost. Anyway.
I am a piano player, and I've wanted to do this for a long time. I recently scrapped an old upright piano and took out the keyboard assembly from it.
I now have an 88-key "board" with keys that move up and down if pressed.

My goal would be to somehow scrap an old keyboard and the (actuators?) from it, and put them underneath the keys, and be able to "play the piano" like a keyboard.

Is this possible?
Thoughts on how I might start?
Thanks in advance!
~Adam

[huha]

It surely is possible. One problem will be the right switches. What kind of keyboard is it?
Usually, they already have the switches installed, so you could just wire them up to a (programmable?) keyboard controller. More information on this would be appreciated, as certain keyboard features (i.e. velocity) require analog switches, the signal of which needs to be convertet first when required for digital switching applications.

-huha

[rdjack21]

Hi all.
I recently scrapped an old upright piano and took out the keyboard assembly from it. I now have an 88-key "board" with keys that move up and down if pressed.

I assume by this statement that you took apart a good old mechanical piano not one of the new electronic piano's. If so the biggest problem you are going to have is the amount of key travel you will need. Most mechanical keyboard switches do not have that much key travel compared to a piano key. The other problem you are going to have is how much those piano keys weigh. If you just sit them on a keyboard switch just their weight alone will most likely activate any switch you place under them.

So what I'm thinking is that you are going to have to make your own switch. While this is not impossible it is certainly more work. A good start may be to take a look at the post by ripster where he built a model of the IBM Model M switch http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:6490 . You could reduce the size some and put that under the keys then have the hammer part hit rubber dome switch (again you would have to make that as well). Or if you can control the amount of force the hammer applies you could maybe use a Alphs swich under the hammer or a Cherry.

Any ways just some thoughts.

[IBI]

For those of us who aren't piano players do you have a photo of the piano assembly? I guess keyboard switches would probably be far too small and you'll end up making custom switches.

I believe all you need is something that makes relatively electrical contact and sends a signal - the controller from the doner computer keyboard will handle all the programming and communication stuff.

Read this for details about how the matrix works in a computer keyboard. It's very simple.

[slickware]

is there a place to buy these switches, or will I have to purchase a computer-keyboard and cut them apart individually?
Either way, once I cut them apart... how do I then route the switch controls themselves to the controller/pcb that handles input?

(yes, I did cut apart a real-life mechanical piano)

I'm not too worried about the depth of travel for the keys. I was going to probably put a false bottom underneath them and just place the actuators at whatever height is necessary to activate them.

[huha]

If it's a mechanical piano, you're pretty lucky. Just put switches below the hammers, so the hammers will strike the switches when a key is pressed.
This will retain a good amount of original piano feel, you don't have to modify much and it's relatively cheap and covenient. I'd recommend heavy-duty switches, though. Actuation characteristic is absolutely irrelevant, but I'd go for black MX. They're easy to find and should take a fair amount of abuse.

-huha

[slickware]

ok I'm really impressed guys/girls.
Not only did I really expect to ever find a forum full of keyboard-geeks, but I REALLY never expected it to be this lively

[slickware]

huha -
I actually cut the hammer assemblies off too. It's JUST the keys, which are essentially see-saws. I'm going to put compression springs under them so they are able to be lever-action switches.
Now I guess all I need to figure out is, where do I buy the swtiches to put under them, and where do I get a keyboard-controller with an easy-to-read wiring diagram that a complete noob can follow?
~A

[IBI]

is there a place to buy these switches, or will I have to purchase a computer-keyboard and cut them apart individually?

Which country are you in?

[slickware]

Usa

[talis]

http://www.digikey.com for switches.
http://www.xkeys.com/custom/xkmatrix.php for controller.

Probably your simplest (and most expensive) option. Alternatively you can fly wire switches onto a standard keyboard (basically run two wires from each switch on the piano keyboard and solder them to the two contacts on the keyboard) which would be cheaper, but more complex.

[slickware]

lol: Pushbutton (10,883 items)
Can we narrow down the switch options to a few less than 10,000 for me?

[talis]

Cherry blacks :

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=CH162-ND - Panel mount.
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=CH160-ND - PCB mount.

You may also want to take a look at microswitches, they may be more durable in the long run (As they tend to have longer throw, and better support when they bottom out).  Something like these will do it :

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=SW884-ND

But theres about 5,500 different options to choose from, so you may find something that better matches your application.  

Some things to help refine your search:

- You don't need high power switches, anything around 10-20V DC @ 10mA or better should be enough.
- You are looking for a SPST-N/O switch (that means single pole*, single throw**, normally open).

* Single pole means that there is only one set of contacts. DP (double pole) would have 2 sets of contacts, etc.
** Single throw means that the switch is either on or off. DT would be double throw, meaning the switch has 2 positions, both can be considered "on", there is a common contact, then one of two possible outputs depending on the switch position.

[Rajagra]

I've thought a bit about building a keyboard, one idea I had was to have adjustable base plates, allowing you to modify things like at what depth the keys actuate, and the initial force needed to press the keys.

This would be pretty awkward on a normal keyboard layout, but since piano keys are all in a row (or 2 rows) it would be quite straightforward. Presumably you'll have to mount the switches and springs on baseplates anyway, just use fixing brackets on the end of those baseplates that allow vertical adjustment.

[glo]

Here's the opposite, a typewriter turned into a piano
http://www.yankodesign.com/2009/07/13/type-me-a-symphony/

[JBert]

What exactly is the final purpose of this mod? Do you want to type on a piano or use it to play software synthesizers or hardware MIDI instruments? In the latter case, stuffing a keyboard internals under the keys won't do.

Anyway, I'm just spoiling the fun. It's an interesting project nonetheless.

[slickware]

Yes, the final purpose of this mod would be to be able to type using a piano. I don't want it to be a midi-keyboard or anything, I literally want to bind each key to be a PC-input... one key for shift, one key for a, b, c, d... etc. I know it'll be HORRIBLE ergonomically, but it would be really funny to look at!
I'm in the process of switch and spring shopping right now. I'll check back in a few days if I come up with anything interesting...

[lowpoly]

Get a MIDI keyboard and solve the problems in software.

With that you could even do what was once suggested here: create upper case letters when you press harder (and Ctrl, Alt, ...).