Just another Topre thread

[awhitedev]

I know I know... it's been debated, argued, and fought over for years now... and after a few days of research I think I've read it all.

However, I can't help but feel that the general consensus is that the only people who don't like Topre are those who haven't tried it. And since Topre is so expensive, my guess is that there are quite a few people who haven't.

Is that true? Or, are there people out there who have tried Topre and still prefer a different switch type? And then, why is that? What about it didn't you like?

I'm contemplating on picking up a Novatouch just to see what all the hype is about. But, like others, I'm hesitant due to the price tag and it being something wildly different than what I'm used to and like. I really like Cherry MX Clear at the moment, but my curiosity may get the best of me.

[exitfire401]

There are plenty of people who have tried Topre and don't like it. I loved the Novatouch when I tried it. It's VERY tactile and a lot less "squishy" compared to most 45g Topre boards. I'd highly suggest it.

[Sygaldry]

I know I know... it's been debated, argued, and fought over for years now... and after a few days of research I think I've read it all.

However, I can't help but feel that the general consensus is that the only people who don't like Topre are those who haven't tried it. And since Topre is so expensive, my guess is that there are quite a few people who haven't.

Is that true? Or, are there people out there who have tried Topre and still prefer a different switch type? And then, why is that? What about it didn't you like?

I'm contemplating on picking up a Novatouch just to see what all the hype is about. But, like others, I'm hesitant due to the price tag and it being something wildly different than what I'm used to and like. I really like Cherry MX Clear at the moment, but my curiosity may get the best of me.

I do love me some Topre. But I also love Clears and modded-Blacks.

I say go for the Novatouch if you're curious. Amazon has them for really cheap right now - 168 shipped I believe.

[frvrngn]

I tried the Type Heaven when it came out and was only $149 just to try the switch.  Didnt like it.  I much preferred my Ergo Clears and Quiet Matias Alps.  Sold it and just moved on.  Fast forward to now and I am using a RF 87u Silent in variable and I Love it.  I havent stopped typing on it since it came in.  I am a light typist and the variable force works perfect for me.  The actual tactile feedback may not be as good as the higher force Topres and definitely not the same as the Ergo Clears but it just feels great to type on and I love the sound.

For $168 try the Novatouch.  I am not worried about swapping keycaps as I like the stock PBT on the RF.  My next purchase will most likely me a HHKB Pro since I have always wanted to try the layout.

[slickmamba]

I tried the Type Heaven when it came out and was only $149 just to try the switch.  Didnt like it.  I much preferred my Ergo Clears and Quiet Matias Alps.  Sold it and just moved on.  Fast forward to now and I am using a RF 87u Silent in variable and I Love it.  I havent stopped typing on it since it came in.  I am a light typist and the variable force works perfect for me.  The actual tactile feedback may not be as good as the higher force Topres and definitely not the same as the Ergo Clears but it just feels great to type on and I love the sound.

For $168 try the Novatouch.  I am not worried about swapping keycaps as I like the stock PBT on the RF.  My next purchase will most likely me a HHKB Pro since I have always wanted to try the layout.

Right, type heaven isn't the best representative of topre, I felt the same about the fc660, but the hhkb and rf87 are amazing, haven't tried nova touch yet

[Lastpilot]

There is nothing we can say and there is nothing you can read about Topre that will explain Topre.

It's like trying to describe the color red. We can talk about wavelengths, spectrum, etc. but actually EXPERIENCING the color red is totally different.

Buy one and return it if you don't like it. Peace of mind is worth the shipping costs!

[ynrozturk]

I've tried it and I don't like it. I simply prefer Cherry switches, clears, browns, blues. The HHKB is annoying for a number of reasons for me.

1. I just don't like the feel of the switches. Honestly doesn't feel too different than a crap $2 "Phoenix" keyboard I bought 10 years ago.
2. Placement of delete. Could never get used to that.
3. Retarded expensive for the sake of being retarded expensive.
4. I find it hilarious how Vortex can provide a PBT space bar on the Poker II and HHKB, while costing over $100 more, can't.

[awhitedev]

interesting opinions. I did see that it is on sale right now... even more tempting...

Call me a simpleton but I really like my QFR. I modded to have MX clears and thick PBT. It's a much better keyboard than when I got it... from all the youtube videos I watched cherry clears sound a lot like topre. Unless you're pushing them all the way down I don't think there's much of a difference between ergo clear and topre... at least on paper. Right?

I'm probably in the wrong place to be talked out of buying this lol.

[dorkvader]

I once heard that if you don't bottom out on topre 45g and 55g you are typing wrong or really slowly. I, who had been using 30g topre for some time was shocked. I didn't come anywhere near bottoming out. But when I tried 45g topre for a while I thought it might be true.

Now this isn't so bad, it's also really easy to bottom out on buckling springs, which I don't mind at all. With some practise I can type on them quite well without bottoming out, it just takes practise.

That said, coming from buckling springs to topre I was seriously underwhelmed. It was only after some significant use that I thought they were decent at all. I think most plate mounted rubber domes will have a similar feel. I really like how well the respond to off-axis keypresses, especially compared with cherry.

Like all switches, they have their ups and downs. I don't like them as well as other switches, but the general good realforce build quality is good enough to keep them around.

[ConscienceDrop]

more like the people who buy Topre are the ones who seem to like it.

people who try it for free often think otherwise.

[saint_james]

However, I can't help but feel that the general consensus is that the only people who don't like Topre are those who haven't tried it. And since Topre is so expensive, my guess is that there are quite a few people who haven't.

Is that true? Or, are there people out there who have tried Topre and still prefer a different switch type? And then, why is that? What about it didn't you like?

I was curious about this also... so I drove a few hours to EK and tried the Topre boards for myself.  LOVED THEM.  Bought an RF 87u 55g and have been enjoying it immensely. 

I've tried most of the common mechanical switches now... In order of my preference, I like Topre > BS > Alps > Cherry MX.  I prefer tactile and clicky switches over linear.  I also use o-rings on my MX boards. 

This does not mean that I don't like Cherry MX. I feel they are generally good switches and far better than rubber dome over membrane.

interesting opinions. I did see that it is on sale right now... even more tempting...

Call me a simpleton but I really like my QFR. I modded to have MX clears and thick PBT. It's a much better keyboard than when I got it... from all the youtube videos I watched cherry clears sound a lot like topre. Unless you're pushing them all the way down I don't think there's much of a difference between ergo clear and topre... at least on paper. Right?

I'm probably in the wrong place to be talked out of buying this lol.

I too have a QFR and it is a good keyboard, so maybe I'm a simpleton too  ) . 

In my opinion, Topre switches do not feel anything like clears (either ergo or stock). Until you try them for yourself, you will always wonder.  Ultimately, all of this comes down to personal preference.  You need to try the switches for yourself and decide what YOU like.

[esoomenona]

.

[ynrozturk]

more like the people who buy Topre are the ones who seem to like it.

people who try it for free often think otherwise.

That's a load of **** right there.

[Sygaldry]

Whoa this thread is quickly degenerating.

Why can't we agree that some people like Topres and others don't and leave it at that?

They're all good switches and the only thing you can do is try them out for yourself.

[Puddsy]

Whoa this thread is quickly degenerating.

Why can't we agree that some people like Topres and others don't and leave it at that?

They're all good switches and the only thing you can do is try them out for yourself.

YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO HAVE A SENSIBLE OPINION, THIS IS THE INTERNET!

/s

[rowdy]

I tried Topre (HHKB) and I like it.  But not enough to use it exclusively, as I have a variety of MX switches and even a couple of Model M.

[saturnotaku]

I like MX Brown and Red over Blue, Black, and Clear. I prefer Topre over any MX board and really enjoy the HHKB I use at work. On the former, I just performed the dental band mod, and I am absolutely loving the sound and feel. It's more appealing to my ears than the HHKB Type-S, Realforce 87U Silent, and even the modded 45g Realforce I use at home. I'm seriously tempted to pick up a stock 45g model and dental band it.

From what I've read on these forums, these preferences make me somewhat of a mechanical keyboard contrarian, but that's what makes this hobby interesting.

[aref]

I've had both 45-gram and 55-gram RF 87U keyboards. The 45-gram is squishy; however, the 55-gram has fantastic feel, much different than Topre's 45g key switch. My 55-gram 87U keyboards are my favorite KBs. I even sold my Model M KBs in favor of RF 87UW/UB. I've had many Cherry switches, but nothing, for me, compares favorably to Topre's 55-gram key switch; and Realforce makes an excellent keyboard. Not everyone likes the feel of Realforce and Topre; opinions vary.

[shut up]

To be honest, I haven't tried Topre because I've never been able to find a good reason to buy a $200+ keyboard with a kind of switch I may or may not like. I've heard that the actuation force really makes a difference, and I'd like to compare them side by side but don't know if one of those test things exists. I'd like to give them a shot though.

[Sygaldry]

To be honest, I haven't tried Topre because I've never been able to find a good reason to buy a $200+ keyboard with a kind of switch I may or may not like. I've heard that the actuation force really makes a difference, and I'd like to compare them side by side but don't know if one of those test things exists. I'd like to give them a shot though.

Topre resale values are pretty high just so you know.
Sell it if you don't like it

[snipars]

I bought a type heaven to see if i liked topres, only to find out that they feel much better in a keyboard with good keycaps, in my case a novatouch with vortex PBTs 
it's hard to recommend topres though because you simply might not like them

[saturnotaku]

it's hard to recommend topres though because you simply might not like them

The same can be said for any switch.

[snipars]

it's hard to recommend topres though because you simply might not like them

The same can be said for any switch.

 
 
aye, but there aren't any easily affordable topre keyboards, whereas someone could at least try out MX switches with a sampler

[Sygaldry]

it's hard to recommend topres though because you simply might not like them

The same can be said for any switch.

 
 
aye, but there aren't any easily affordable topre keyboards, whereas someone could at least try out MX switches with a sampler

Novatouch can be had for 150 in excellent used condition, and I recently sold my Type Heaven for 110 shipped in excellent/like-new condition.

These are not as cost prohibitive as people make them out to be.

[Hypersphere]

The CM Novatouch is not representative of the best Topre experience. The NT is fine is you don't like Cherry mx switches but you want a board that is compatible with Cherry mx keycaps.

Otherwise, if you really want to experience Topre at its best, go for a RF 87ub 55g. Next best is the RF 87ub 45g. If you want the best (IMO) 60% keyboard, go for the HHKB Pro 2.

If you like the layout and keycaps, another decent Topre board is the Leopold FC660C.

[dusan]

...
However, I can't help but feel that the general consensus is that the only people who don't like Topre are those who haven't tried it. And since Topre is so expensive, my guess is that there are quite a few people who haven't.

Is that true? Or, are there people out there who have tried Topre and still prefer a different switch type? And then, why is that? What about it didn't you like?
...

Nope. Aside from a CM Storm QF Stealth with Cherry MX green, I have a Topre Type Heaven (with genuine 45g Topre switches) and an Asus Echelon (with Cherry MX black switches) in my office.  I use the CM Storm when I need to type accurately because it is very tactile and clicky. I use the Asus when I need to type fast because it is very sensible to actuation and reset, and very quiet.

I use the Topre just for fun. It is neither tactile nor clicky, or quiet. Some times, the silence of bottoming out combined with the 'thock' and 'ping' of upstrokes are no fun. Topre swiches aren't audible at all, they just fool me. Not to mention the space bar, which almost kills me.

[Ngt]

The CM Novatouch is not representative of the best Topre experience. The NT is fine is you don't like Cherry mx switches but you want a board that is compatible with Cherry mx keycaps.

Otherwise, if you really want to experience Topre at its best, go for a RF 87ub 55g. Next best is the RF 87ub 45g. If you want the best (IMO) 60% keyboard, go for the HHKB Pro 2.

If you like the layout and keycaps, another decent Topre board is the Leopold FC660C.

Why would you rate the RF 55g above 45g? Is it just personal preferences?

[Hypersphere]

The CM Novatouch is not representative of the best Topre experience. The NT is fine is you don't like Cherry mx switches but you want a board that is compatible with Cherry mx keycaps.

Otherwise, if you really want to experience Topre at its best, go for a RF 87ub 55g. Next best is the RF 87ub 45g. If you want the best (IMO) 60% keyboard, go for the HHKB Pro 2.

If you like the layout and keycaps, another decent Topre board is the Leopold FC660C.

Why would you rate the RF 55g above 45g? Is it just personal preferences?

Yes, certainly, my "rating" of the 55g over the 45g is merely my opinion -- personal preference. The uniform 45g and uniform 55g RF 87u keyboards are very close, but I would give the edge to the 55g. To me, in comparison to the 45g, the 55g feels and sounds just a bit more solid, and there is a more definitive tactile bump.

[Ngt]

If we compare with cherry MX actuation force, the 55g would be a bit stronger than Blues and the 45g would be equivalent to Browns, wouldn't they?

[Hypersphere]

If we compare with cherry MX actuation force, the 55g would be a bit stronger than Blues and the 45g would be equivalent to Browns, wouldn't they?

Correct, as far as actuation force alone goes. However, the feel of Cherry mx switches is very different from that of Topre switches. For one thing, the force required for continued displacement past the actuation point decreases with a Topre switch and increases with a Cherry mx switch until bottoming out.

[Ngt]

If we compare with cherry MX actuation force, the 55g would be a bit stronger than Blues and the 45g would be equivalent to Browns, wouldn't they?

Correct, as far as actuation force alone goes. However, the feel of Cherry mx switches is very different from that of Topre switches. For one thing, the force required for continued displacement past the actuation point decreases with a Topre switch and increases with a Cherry mx switch until bottoming out.

Alright good to know! Thanks.

[aref]

Interrupteurs à clé Topre sont uniques dans la sensation ; Je trouve qu'ils soient l'interrupteur parfait dans 55 grammes sur un Realforce 87U. J'ai eu plusieurs commutateurs de cerise, et, pour moi, aucun d'eux ne se compare favorablement avec le Topre 55 grammes. Pardonnez mon Français, comme vous pouvez le dire, ce n'est pas ma langue maternelle.

[Ngt]

Interrupteurs à clé Topre sont uniques dans la sensation ; Je trouve qu'ils soient l'interrupteur parfait dans 55 grammes sur un Realforce 87U. J'ai eu plusieurs commutateurs de cerise, et, pour moi, aucun d'eux ne se compare favorablement avec le Topre 55 grammes. Pardonnez mon Français, comme vous pouvez le dire, ce n'est pas ma langue maternelle.

Thanks for answering in french even though I'm fluent in english too. If you feel more comfortable in english than in french feel free to answer in english. 


Did you have the chance to try both the RF 87U 45g and the 55g? In your text it felt that you only tried the 55g version.

[aref]

I've used both 45g and 55g. I didn't care for the 45g keyboard; it felt mushy to me. Not as good as MX Red switches, which I like. My preference in Topre switches is its 55g. The 55g switch has a firm and definitive feel; whereas the 45g switch is akin to poking one's finger into a marshmallow--not at all satisfying to me.

I used to teach in Switzerland and spent a lot of time in Lyon and throughout France--great country. This goes back many years.

[dustinhxc]

I tried topre and thought I was back to MX, but then I ended up missing it and I'm back to topre.
Just use both like me but realforce 104ubdk topre 45g dental banded is still my end game.
Have used it since I got it.

[Ngt]

I've used both 45g and 55g. I didn't care for the 45g keyboard; it felt mushy to me. Not as good as MX Red switches, which I like. My preference in Topre switches is its 55g. The 55g switch has a firm and definitive feel; whereas the 45g switch is akin to poking one's finger into a marshmallow--not at all satisfying to me.

I used to teach in Switzerland and spent a lot of time in Lyon and throughout France--great country. This goes back many years.

I guess I'll just have to start with one and see if I like it. But I can't find a RF-88UB 55g in ISO layout. The one that the Keyboard Company has are 45g.


Oh that's nice! What did you teach? Yeah Lyon is such a great city. It is still human-sized and there are a lot of stuff to do. It is pretty nice as well.

[Ngt]

I tried topre and thought I was back to MX, but then I ended up missing it and I'm back to topre.
Just use both like me but realforce 104ubdk topre 45g dental banded is still my end game.
Have used it since I got it.

I'd have to take a stand and pick one. I don't know if you can find the RF-88UB 55g in ISO layout.

[dustinhxc]

I had a 88UB ISO 45G. It was nice but had to sell it recently. That was my last board I just sold actually. You have to buy a 87U 55g and Swap the Domes. Personally I dont like 55g.

[Ngt]

I had a 88UB ISO 45G. It was nice but had to sell it recently. That was my last board I just sold actually. You have to buy a 87U 55g and Swap the Domes. Personally I dont like 55g.

What do you mean by swapping the domes? Opening the keyboard and move the rubber dome?

[skuko]

ordered yesterday, shipped today

http://www.ebay.com/itm/251692487616?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

[dustinhxc]

Argggg it keeps giving me an error when I post...


Yes, you open both boards, remove the domes from each board, swap them. 55g weight to 45g weight.

[Ngt]

ordered yesterday, shipped today

http://www.ebay.com/itm/251692487616?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Damn why is it more expensive than in Europe? Is it because it is a white model? But I'm happy for you, enjoy it!

[Ngt]

Argggg it keeps giving me an error when I post...


Yes, you open both boards, remove the domes from each board, swap them. 55g weight to 45g weight.

I don't get it. What is the point of swapping the domes from a board to another? If you want a 55g buy one otherwise if you prefer a 45g just get that.


So the difference between 45g and 55g only comes from the rubber domes? Do they use the same conical spring? Or is the point of swapping to have a stronger spring with a softer rubber dome?

[Hypersphere]

In Topre switches, most of the resistance comes from the rubber domes. The conical springs are there for the capacitance sensing, and they provide only about 5 cN of force.

Swapping domes could be useful in several scenarios. For example, if you had a silenced RF, which is available only in variable weight, and you wanted to convert it to all-45g or all-55g. Another example is if you had a HHKB Pro 2, which is only available in all-45g and you wanted to convert it to all-55g.

[Ngt]

Alright, I got it. This is pretty expensive though if you consider that you'll only keep one board. I guess you can just sell the other one.

[Hypersphere]

Yes, regarding dome swaps, I have seen successful reports of people selling the donor board for a good price.

[Ngt]

As an European I'm using ISO keyboards and not ANSI boards. I feel there are less demands for ISO so it is harder to sell these boards. Perhaps I should give a try to ANSI AZERTY.

[saturnotaku]

Yes, regarding dome swaps, I have seen successful reports of people selling the donor board for a good price.

That's how I acquired the Realforce in my signature. I paid less than what a new one would be, and the job of silencing the board had already been done by someone else. Win-win.