[IC]GMK Triumph Adler [LIVE!!!!]

[SpAmRaY]

Has any GMK set had doubleshot windows keys? I thought windows and menu keys were always pad printed. Of course I haven't used a GMK set in a few months.

[hjc1710]

Am I the only one that's worried about a not having a double-shot windows key? I only say this because I've got a set of NIB mods off a G81-8200 with the mixture of pad printed and double-shot and it's really off putting.

I also don't want mixed DS & printed sets. I'd rather have a DS word WIN than a printed logo any day.

I agree with this. I would rather have the new style DS winkeys instead of the old style pad printed ones (ideally, both would be amazing). But, that's not a dealbreaker for me.

Has any GMK set had doubleshot windows keys? I thought windows and menu keys were always pad printed. Of course I haven't used a GMK set in a few months.

Aren't the winkeys in the Dolch color set here DS? https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=58608.0

[bueller]

Am I the only one that's worried about a not having a double-shot windows key? I only say this because I've got a set of NIB mods off a G81-8200 with the mixture of pad printed and double-shot and it's really off putting.

I also don't want mixed DS & printed sets. I'd rather have a DS word WIN than a printed logo any day.

Yeah I prefer Windows 8 but I know some people aren't a fan - I'll take anything so long as it makes it a full double shot set.

[intelli78]

The ship has already sailed on the layout and legends.

[bueller]

Has any GMK set had doubleshot windows keys? I thought windows and menu keys were always pad printed. Of course I haven't used a GMK set in a few months.

Yeah all my sets have double-shot legends - GMK Dolch, GMK Purple, GMK Classic Beige.

[skcheng]

All keys would ideally be double shot like the OG keys.   Please have GMK offer dimpled F and J caps as well.   Some of us (not me) don't like the scoops.

Scoops are love, scoops are life.

I agree, but my kiddo hates them, so I have a GMK, ghetto F and J set up for him on his KMAC 2

[pr0ximity]

I agree, but my kiddo hates them, so I have a GMK, ghetto F and J set up for him on his KMAC 2

Hide yo kids, hide yo wife, we're scooping everything out here.

[bueller]

The ship has already sailed on the layout and legends.

Ah well, you've probably just saved me some cash haha

[jdcarpe]

The ship has already sailed on the ... legends.

Really? Well, that sucks. I much prefer the double shot Win8 logo over pad printed Win95 logo. I didn't know there was a discussion on it.

[nubbinator]

The ship has already sailed on the ... legends.

Really? Well, that sucks. I much prefer the double shot Win8 logo over pad printed Win95 logo. I didn't know there was a discussion on it.

As do I. 

[CommonCurt]

The ship has already sailed on the layout and legends.

I'm extremely happy you went with the Win95 logo. Of course I'd rather they be double shot. Is the reason they're not because they don't  have the molds anymore?

Also, can they still do Win7 double shots? Seems like every good GMK set coming out now is only being made with the ugly ass win8 logo.

[bueller]

The ship has already sailed on the layout and legends.

I'm extremely happy you went with the Win95 logo. Of course I'd rather they be double shot. Is the reason they're not because they don't  have the molds anymore?

Also, can they still do Win7 double shots? Seems like every good GMK set coming out now is only being made with the ugly ass win8 logo.

Yeah they don't have molds for Win95 logos unfortunately, only Win7 and Win8.

[Photekq]

They never had the moulds for win95. Even on old Cherry boards it was pad printed.

[bueller]

I can understand the aesthetic reason for wanting the Windows 95 logo but I really wish there was an alternative offered for people that want double-shot. Seems like a really unusual decision for such a critical key.

[strict]

Wait, so the Win keys are going to be pad printed?? That's awful, enough so to make me reconsider even purchasing a set. I would sooner have blank win keys than one-off pad printed keys.

[skcheng]

Pad printed Winkeys are a deal breaker for some?   Really??

[FrostyToast]

Wait, you guys use Windows keys?
What chumps. Amirite?
WKL all day erry day.

[Photekq]

Classic colour scheme = classic legends. That was the thought process.

Seriously, pad printed GMK looks good, and it's very, very wear resistant. I don't know why it would make someone decide to not buy a set.

[strict]

I dont have any experience with GMK pad printing, but all my other experience with other pad-printing has been horrible. It seems ridiculous to me to even consider pad-printing just to get the "classic" logo when the rest of the set is double-shot and double-shot win keys molds exist, just in win7/8 designs.

What makes GMK pad-printing special? It will still wear off way before the double-shot legends. Its still going to have the glossy border around the logo, right?

[nubbinator]

Classic colour scheme = classic legends. That was the thought process.

Seriously, pad printed GMK looks good, and it's very, very wear resistant. I don't know why it would make someone decide to not buy a set.

Not a deal breaker fire me, just sub-optimal.

And if we're going to appeal to it being vintage, then we should say it should be winkeyless. 

[FrostyToast]

How often do you guys even press the windows key?
Also, I'm just saying, a ton of people just use the WKL layout.

[strict]

How often do you guys even press the windows key?
Also, I'm just saying, a ton of people just use the WKL layout.

A lot, like non-stop

- Win+r = run box
- Win+e = windows explorer
- Win+Pause = System control pane
- Win+{Num} = switch to an open window

I love a lot of those Korean customs but WKL could never happen for me.

[user 18]

How often do you guys even press the windows key?
Also, I'm just saying, a ton of people just use the WKL layout.

I use it pretty constantly. A lot of my openbox shortcuts are mapped to super + another key. It's really good for that because I know I won't be accidentally triggering or hiding an application shortcut.

[nubbinator]

How often do you guys even press the windows key?
Also, I'm just saying, a ton of people just use the WKL layout.

I use it all the time.  I'm lost without it since I use quite a few winkey shortcuts.

[whentheclouds]

winkey is required for some of the most efficient shortcuts on Windows OS. i don't care about the keycap because i'll remap it to caps lock and go with a WKL layout, but the function itself is essential to anyone who considers themselves a power user

[Photekq]

What makes GMK pad-printing special? It will still wear off way before the double-shot legends. Its still going to have the glossy border around the logo, right?

We're talking years before it wears away, unless you type sentences with your windows key. Your set will be all shined over ages before the clear coat even wears away, nevermind the pad print itself.

[mz/x]

The ship has already sailed on the layout and legends.

I am afraid that I am not the only one who would pass on this otherwise great and very lovely set if it becomes obvious that not all keys are double-shot. Is there any way to offer let's say some extra keys as a compromise? Just thinking here ... I understand that boat is gone so I was just thinking.

[hjc1710]

The ship has already sailed on the layout and legends.

I am afraid that I am not the only one who would pass on this otherwise great and very lovely set if it becomes obvious that not all keys are double-shot. Is there any way to offer let's say some extra keys as a compromise? Just thinking here ... I understand that boat is gone so I was just thinking.

I think the only options there would be to somehow try and get a modifier pack to hit MOQ and go with that. Unfortunately, the rest of this set is so well picked, that it covers the vast majority of all semi-popular layouts, so only like more ISO support... and... and... profile fixing for esoteric layouts could be done (e.g., R4 End for an 85% support). There's definitely some odd layouts I'm not thinking of, but 1800 works with this set, HHKB does, WKL does, MX mini does, and even 85% does if you're willing to compromise on profile. So, I don't think that option would work.

Correct me if I'm wrong intelli/Photekq, but this is the impression I've been given about an extra mods pack while reading the thread (i.e., the keys chosen were chosen so a mod set wouldn't be needed).

[whentheclouds]

a separate mod pack was never in consideration

[hjc1710]

a separate mod pack was never in consideration

Correct. It was mentioned on page, like, 5 to do the entire buy as a mods pack (this was when we were still on the fence about alpha legend colors). Since then, intelli and Photekq have done an awesome job picking keys and a mod pack wouldn't be too useful.

[user 18]

How about some blanks?

As windows keys, I mean.

[Photekq]

How about some blanks?

The ship has already sailed on the layout and legends.

[intelli78]

Yes, we tried to include only the highest bang-for-buck keys in this set. It covers all of the layouts just mentioned, although sometimes there are compromises w/r/t legend, and less frequently, cap profile. Of course it would be best if we could please everyone, and include every single HHKB key, every 75% key, every 1800 key, multiple winkey types, blanks, scoop alternatives, extra B-profile bottom row keys, language packs... 

.... and on and on and on.

Unfortunately every key adds to the expense, and the more obscure keys you add, the more it means you expect the average Joe buyer to subsidize everyone else's caps. Joe who buys the set for his Ducky or QFR isn't going to use any of those other caps and it's not fair to ask him to subsidize all those useless keys. Moreover, we have seen in other recent GBs what happens when sets get too big and expensive; they don't meet MOQ.

This set is not perfect, but no set can be perfect within the constraints of reality. You can't please everyone. We did the best we could to find the happy medium.

I would be willing to partially compromise and go back to blanks for the winkey if that is more agreeable for the majority. But there will be no additional keys added or other changes made. That discussion happened in the first half of the thread and it's done now. The choices made were sound then and they are sound now.

Now I'm working on sorting out the colors so we can get this up for sale and into everyone's hands as soon as possible. That is the priority now.

[HoffmanMyster]

I would be willing to partially compromise and go back to blanks for the winkey if that is more agreeable for the majority.

I much prefer pad printed Winkeys.  The quality of GMK pad printing is more than sufficient for these two keys, and I would rather have them than blank keycaps.

I suspect the people opposed to this have not used GMK pad printed keys.  Yes, double shot is better, but for these keys we don't have a choice with, pad printing is fine.

If it truly becomes an issue of meeting MOQ, I'm willing to use blanks instead, but I don't see why it should come to that.

[whentheclouds]

by the way, why is the windows logo offcentered for the 1.25 keys?

[Photekq]

by the way, why is the windows logo offcentered for the 1.25 keys?

[whentheclouds]

gotcha seeing this, it would make more sense to keep the vintage logos instead of resorting to blanks

[strict]

Putting my vote in for blanks.

[nubbinator]

I prefer printed to blanks.  Still not a fan of Win 95, but it's better than nothing.  I never knew the plan was for a pad printed retro logo though.

[Karura]

I'd say we chip in $100 each and help GMK make new molds for the ultimate Win98 doubleshot caps, then everyone will be happy!

Guys...?

[jonathanyu]

I'd say we chip in $100 each and help GMK make new molds for the ultimate Win98 doubleshot caps, then everyone will be happy!

Guys...?

GMK will not make new mold.

[VinnyCordeiro]

I'd say we chip in $100 each and help GMK make new molds for the ultimate Win98 doubleshot caps, then everyone will be happy!

Guys...?

GMK will not make new mold.

And even if they did, from what I know about plastic injection a new mold costs from 4k to 10k dollars, depending on complexity. I don't think people is willing to expend this kind of money just to make a mold and pay again for the keycaps.

[Karura]

I think my joke was lost in text...

GMK will make new molds if you pay for it, and like you said, it will be thousands of dollars that we have no hope in recovering

And if we really did all chip in $100 each for it, I'm sure it could be done.

[hjc1710]

I would be willing to partially compromise and go back to blanks for the winkey if that is more agreeable for the majority. But there will be no additional keys added or other changes made.

Thanks for staying committed to keeping this set going above all else. And not compromising on a layout that is pretty ****ing great, if I do say so myself.

I'd prefer pad printed winkeys, but can happily concede to blanks if it lets us reach MOQ.

We're so close guys! Let's not let something like winkeys prevent one of the greatest sets ever from being made!

[bueller]

That discussion happened in the first half of the thread and it's done now. The choices made were sound then and they are sound now.

There was no discussion on the Windows keys though. I literally just read the entire thread and all your mockups didn't even have a legend chosen in the early stages, the Win95 key was added when you started the Massdrop vote but no-one noticed because all anyone was discussing was legend colors or complaining about MD.

I can't see the benefit of blanks, it will look weird. Why can't we have a Win7/8 logo instead? If you're willing to drop the Win95 logo it seems like a far better option than ruining the bottom row aesthetic with a blank.

[strict]

There was no discussion on the Windows keys though. I literally just read the entire thread and all your mockups didn't even have a legend chosen in the early stages, the Win95 key was added when you started the Massdrop vote but no-one noticed because all anyone was discussing was legend colors or complaining about MD.

I can't see the benefit of blanks, it will look weird. Why can't we have a Win7/8 logo instead? If you're willing to drop the Win95 logo it seems like a far better option than ruining the bottom row aesthetic with a blank.

win7/8 would be my top choice, followed by blank, followed by pad print

Maybe a poll should be created?

[bueller]

I think the logo used on Originative's Classic Beige set would be a good compromise, it fits with the vintage aesthetic fine for that set so I don't see why it wouldn't work here.

[heedpantsnow]

1. DS w modern Win logo
2. Blank
3. Printed W98 (2nd worst Win OS ever I have to say!)

[nubbinator]

I say modern Windows 7 or 8 would be good.  If we're just doing the Windows 95 logo because it's retro, it's really the wrong time frame.  If you want the appropriate Windows logo, it should be something like the Windows 2.0 logo for a Triumph Adler machine, so something like this:



I go, in order, Windows 7 or 8, pad printed Windows 2.0, pad printed Win 95, blank.

[bueller]

I say modern Windows 7 or 8 would be good.  If we're just doing the Windows 95 logo because it's retro, it's really the wrong time frame.  If you want the appropriate Windows logo, it should be something like the Windows 2.0 logo for a Triumph Adler machine, so something like this:

Show Image

Haha Microsoft sure have come full circle with their logo's haven't they.