F122s gone wild

[jacobolus]

http://www.ebay.com/sch/glodener/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=

http://www.ebay.com/itm/291305988749
http://www.ebay.com/itm/291305988747
http://www.ebay.com/itm/291305988748

Some colored keycaps on a couple of them.

[fohat.digs]

Oh, boy, you had me going.

On the title page the word "each" did not show, and I was about to frantically verify that I have about $110 in my Paypal account.

[dorkvader]

The IBM yellow and green keycaps are awesome. I have some NIB ones and they are great.

[Touch_It]

The IBM yellow and green keycaps are awesome. I have some NIB ones and they are great.

The fact that you have a NIB F122 makes me jealous.  Also I think its really cool that IBM had those color keycaps.  I've seen them on boards on Ebay before but I'd imagine they are not too common.

[kalrand]

Unicomp will pretty happily sell you colored Model M keys.

[dorkvader]

The IBM yellow and green keycaps are awesome. I have some NIB ones and they are great.

The fact that you have a NIB F122 makes me jealous.  Also I think its really cool that IBM had those color keycaps.  I've seen them on boards on Ebay before but I'd imagine they are not too common.

I was talking about a replacement keycap kit I got NIB a while back.

I do have a NIB F122 assembly (just KB and controller, no case) and the oldest F122 known to exist (serial number 00363, january 1984) but I don't technically have a NIB F122.

I don't know for sure what the colored keycaps were meant for, but I suspect it's a similar sort of thing as the colored switches on beamsprings are

Unicomp will pretty happily sell you colored Model M keys.

I have some. They are a slightly different colour.

[kalrand]

Unicomp will pretty happily sell you colored Model M keys.

I have some. They are a slightly different colour.

No Kidding. I have a pair of the old IBM Green/Gold keys (that were NIB) and never bothered to compare...

[0100010]

The IBM yellow and green keycaps are awesome. I have some NIB ones and they are great.

The fact that you have a NIB F122 makes me jealous.  Also I think its really cool that IBM had those color keycaps.  I've seen them on boards on Ebay before but I'd imagine they are not too common.

I was talking about a replacement keycap kit I got NIB a while back.

I do have a NIB F122 assembly (just KB and controller, no case) and the oldest F122 known to exist (serial number 00363, january 1984) but I don't technically have a NIB F122.

I don't know for sure what the colored keycaps were meant for, but I suspect it's a similar sort of thing as the colored switches on beamsprings are

Unicomp will pretty happily sell you colored Model M keys.

I have some. They are a slightly different colour.

Wow.  There was another thread of an M 122, sn 219 from 07/26/85 : https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=64805.0

[1391406]

Seems like there are F-122's all over eBay for a reasonable price at the moment. It's a great time to be in the market for one. If I didn't already own three, I'd pick another one up.

[jacobolus]

They’re going wild:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/111532672379
http://www.ebay.com/itm/121501666202
http://www.ebay.com/itm/111532648715
http://www.ebay.com/itm/141488535296

[MGH]

Wow....I bought mine for $125

[jacobolus]

$125 still seems like a great price, I wouldn’t worry too much. I’m sure these prices will shoot back up again within a few months.

[fohat.digs]

I have paid anywhere from $35 to $185 for these, at various times, over the past 3-4 years.

If you want one, you should get it now. $90-100 shipped is very good.

I can't remember any previous time when half a dozen were on sale on ebay at the same time, but I can remember 3-4 months going by when none were available at any price.

[dorkvader]

seller accepted my $35 offer for the $55 BIN one.

just FYI

[Touch_It]

Crazy.  I opted to buy a 107 key because I couldn't find a 122 key.  Zero regrets but this might have changed my mind.

[dorkvader]

Crazy.  I opted to buy a 107 key because I couldn't find a 122 key.  Zero regrets but this might have changed my mind.

they're both nice. Couldn't hurt to have a spare.

[Aer Fixus]

The prices that these are going for concerns me a tad. (And the fact that they are coming out of the woodworks, driving the prices even lower)

XTs are going for $60+ now (the price started to rise a lot [I assume] because of the Model F controllers and the XTant project coming along much further)
That's $0.72+ per barrel/plate pair.
If 122s drop any more (below $85) or XTs get any more expensive, they will be equally valued in terms of barrels and plates.

Yes, an XT has the case to build inside, but you could cut an F122's plates down to fit inside an M case and have extra barrels and plates for parts or to sell/trade. It might even turn out to be cheaper because you wouldn't need to manufacture custom plates... (unless you wanted a custom layout, then the plates wouldn't help)

It will pain me to see the day that a good condition F122 gets cut up and used for parts. I could see reusing practically destroyed ones for this purpose, though.

[Touch_It]

Crazy.  I opted to buy a 107 key because I couldn't find a 122 key.  Zero regrets but this might have changed my mind.

they're both nice. Couldn't hurt to have a spare.

So so true.  Half tempted but the mrs might kill me lol

[dorkvader]

you could cut an F122's plates down to fit inside an M case and have extra barrels and plates for parts or to sell/trade.

Not 100% sure what you mean but you probably can't do whatever you're thinking about here.

[Aer Fixus]

you could cut an F122's plates down to fit inside an M case and have extra barrels and plates for parts or to sell/trade.

Not 100% sure what you mean but you probably can't do whatever you're thinking about here.

If a 122 were used, it would make it so that only a PCB would have to be made. The other parts could be re-used.

• Start with a 122.
• Cut the top and bottom plate to Model M size (it's already ANSI/ISO + a few keys). The layers will be bolted together (or clamped like Wcass shows).
• Have a custom PCB made (the old PCB can't be reused).
• Use an xwhatsit controller
• Put inside of Model M case

I don't see any issues. From memory, The M and F assemblies are similar thicknesses, just different materials. And the curves are the same, the 122 just goes up further. So putting it into the M 101 case should be fine.

[fohat.digs]

The layers will be bolted together (or clamped like Wcass shows).

This is absolutely crucial.

I am convinced that the finely-tuned tension/compression stresses resulting from the various plates all tightly bound together is what gives the Model F its "life force" and I can hardly imagine re-creating that successfully.

Personally, I think that imagining that binder clips from the desk drawer will generate sufficient force on heavy steel plates is a pipe dream.

I plan to build an XTant, and am very excited about it, but I feel certain that it will be the bolts that will provide the pressure to make it come alive.

[Aer Fixus]

I plan to build an XTant, and am very excited about it, but I feel certain that it will be the bolts that will provide the pressure to make it come alive.

I am also very excited about this, but I really want a 101/103 key layout (or an SSK layout). I might not make one until then. That doesn't seem in the cards, though. I might actually try my F122 sacrilege if I can get a cheap/broken one and a custom PCB. I'm fine with modding*, but I can't design circuits (I don't know how. I'm sure that could be solved in time).

*my Poker-esque 60% M project is practically done and almost ready for showcasing. It's working, it just needs to be touched up.

[dorkvader]

you could cut an F122's plates down to fit inside an M case and have extra barrels and plates for parts or to sell/trade.

Not 100% sure what you mean but you probably can't do whatever you're thinking about here.

If a 122 were used, it would make it so that only a PCB would have to be made. The other parts could be re-used.

• Start with a 122.
• Cut the top and bottom plate to Model M size (it's already ANSI/ISO + a few keys). The layers will be bolted together (or clamped like Wcass shows).
• Have a custom PCB made (the old PCB can't be reused).
• Use an xwhatsit controller
• Put inside of Model M case

I don't see any issues. From memory, The M and F assemblies are similar thicknesses, just different materials. And the curves are the same, the 122 just goes up further. So putting it into the M 101 case should be fine.

Ah, I suspect this is what you were getting at.

There are a lot of design rules that you have to follow when designing a new PCB for a model F. This is because they are based on the 1970's beamspring PCBs which appear to be based on capacitive memory in the 1960's.

Unlike with contact keyboards like cherry and alps where you just need continuity, you have to make sure traces cross specifically, you need to make sure that grounding and signal lines are properly laid out with respect to each other. It is not a trivial task.

[Aer Fixus]

There are a lot of design rules that you have to follow when designing a new PCB for a model F. This is because they are based on the 1970's beamspring PCBs which appear to be based on capacitive memory in the 1960's.

Unlike with contact keyboards like cherry and alps where you just need continuity, you have to make sure traces cross specifically, you need to make sure that grounding and signal lines are properly laid out with respect to each other. It is not a trivial task.

I am aware that this has to be done and I'd love to learn how to do it. My plans were to ask someone else (wcass?) who had the ability to design the circuit to either help me or just make it to the right specifications the first time. I haven't actually gone through with that because I've been busy. I also don't know who exactly to contact right now.

[Edit:] I remember him saying at one point that the PCB design was relatively easy once you knew what to do. IIRC the PCB wasn't as much of a hold up as the plate manufacturing (which I could do by hand for my own board if I really wanted to...!)

[kalrand]

This might be a bit naive, but would there be any way to swap in an ANSI left shift key onto one of these without opening it up?

[berserkfan]

This might be a bit naive, but would there be any way to swap in an ANSI left shift key onto one of these without opening it up?

Yes. An easy mod. Just need to tell Soarer to ignore the ISO keypress.

[jacobolus]

This might be a bit naive, but would there be any way to swap in an ANSI left shift key onto one of these without opening it up?

Sure, just yank the spring out of the barrel (or gently twist it and pull it out, if you want to keep it undamaged) and stick a little plastic stabilizer insert into the barrel instead. (Assuming you’re using a peg-stabilized keycap.)

You could also just take it all apart though, and then tweak the layout to your heart’s content.

[kalrand]

This might be a bit naive, but would there be any way to swap in an ANSI left shift key onto one of these without opening it up?

Sure, just yank the spring out of the barrel (or gently twist it and pull it out, if you want to keep it undamaged) and stick a little plastic stabilizer insert into the barrel instead. (Assuming you’re using a peg-stabilized keycap.)

You could also just take it all apart though, and then tweak the layout to your heart’s content.

In my experience with Model Ms, the insert didn't properly go all the way to the bottom if the hammer was still in the board. Is there enough clearance with Fs?