Would a HHKB pro 2 be worth my money?

[snipars]

I'm a huge fan of Topre switches, PBT keycaps and the 60% form, my favourite keyboard is a novatouch with vortex PBTs but i'd rather have a 60% like my poker 2 
I'm okay with spending £200 on a keyboard (provided i sell my crap ones i don't use anymore), Is the hhkb really as great a keyboard as people say? my Novatouch with Vortex doubleshot PBTs would be a perfect keyboard if it was smaller! 

[ComradeSniper]

As an owner of multiple Korean customs, the HHKB is still a strong contender for my favorite keyboard. Totally worth it, IMO.

[feizor]

Yes

[Lurch]

Yes

[Puddsy]

get it with legends

if you like heavy keyboards it might not be for you

[byker]

My favorite keyboard thus far.

[snipars]

get it with legends

if you like heavy keyboards it might not be for you

 
 
I much prefer small light keyboards, what's the reason to get it printed rather than blank?
 

Yes

 
 
I'm very glad to hear that

[Puddsy]

also take note that i despised it it first, but lately it's been growing on me again cause it's pretty

[Flyersfan1]

get it with legends

if you like heavy keyboards it might not be for you

 
 
I much prefer small light keyboards, what's the reason to get it printed rather than blank?
 

Yes

 
 
I'm very glad to hear that

Personal preference, either will look great.  Personally, even though I can touch type and rarely look down at my keyboard, I like legends on my keycaps very much.

[Polymer]

I much prefer small light keyboards, what's the reason to get it printed rather than blank?

I think for some it is easier to get used to some of the FN keys when you have an easy way to reference what it'll be..but if you're not concerned, blank looks great.

Sounds like the HHKB is for you...you already enjoy the switches, form factor..and the lightness of the keyboard seems like a plus for you..

I personally think is is one of the most enjoyable (if not the most enjoyable) keyboard to use...the thock on it will be different than other keyboards and just adds some extra enjoyment on top of what is already a very enjoyable switch.  I don't use it exclusively because for heavy typing I actually enjoy the the variable RF a bit more because it is easier on my hands...but each time I go back to it...yumm....

[Sygaldry]

WORTH

[snipars]

I much prefer small light keyboards, what's the reason to get it printed rather than blank?

I think for some it is easier to get used to some of the FN keys when you have an easy way to reference what it'll be..but if you're not concerned, blank looks great.

Sounds like the HHKB is for you...you already enjoy the switches, form factor..and the lightness of the keyboard seems like a plus for you..

I personally think is is one of the most enjoyable (if not the most enjoyable) keyboard to use...the thock on it will be different than other keyboards and just adds some extra enjoyment on top of what is already a very enjoyable switch.  I don't use it exclusively because for heavy typing I actually enjoy the the variable RF a bit more because it is easier on my hands...but each time I go back to it...yumm....

 
 
Sounds like a great keyboard, i'm tempted to buy it tomorrow, but i'll force myself to wait until i've sold other keyboards

[Sygaldry]

I much prefer small light keyboards, what's the reason to get it printed rather than blank?

I think for some it is easier to get used to some of the FN keys when you have an easy way to reference what it'll be..but if you're not concerned, blank looks great.

Sounds like the HHKB is for you...you already enjoy the switches, form factor..and the lightness of the keyboard seems like a plus for you..

I personally think is is one of the most enjoyable (if not the most enjoyable) keyboard to use...the thock on it will be different than other keyboards and just adds some extra enjoyment on top of what is already a very enjoyable switch.  I don't use it exclusively because for heavy typing I actually enjoy the the variable RF a bit more because it is easier on my hands...but each time I go back to it...yumm....

 
 
Sounds like a great keyboard, i'm tempted to buy it tomorrow, but i'll force myself to wait until i've sold other keyboards

Buy now, sell later.

Geekhack will be here when your HHKB comes in, someone is bound to buy your old boards.
 

(Don't take my advice wholeheartedly, I'm a very impulsive buyer and make very bad financial decisions - though my credit score is pretty damned amazing...)

[snipars]

I much prefer small light keyboards, what's the reason to get it printed rather than blank?

I think for some it is easier to get used to some of the FN keys when you have an easy way to reference what it'll be..but if you're not concerned, blank looks great.

Sounds like the HHKB is for you...you already enjoy the switches, form factor..and the lightness of the keyboard seems like a plus for you..

I personally think is is one of the most enjoyable (if not the most enjoyable) keyboard to use...the thock on it will be different than other keyboards and just adds some extra enjoyment on top of what is already a very enjoyable switch.  I don't use it exclusively because for heavy typing I actually enjoy the the variable RF a bit more because it is easier on my hands...but each time I go back to it...yumm....

 
 
Sounds like a great keyboard, i'm tempted to buy it tomorrow, but i'll force myself to wait until i've sold other keyboards

Buy now, sell later.

Geekhack will be here when your HHKB comes in, someone is bound to buy your old boards.
 

(Don't take my advice wholeheartedly, I'm a very impulsive buyer and make very bad financial decisions - though my credit score is pretty damned amazing...)

 
 
not sure i can justify the feels to my bank account

[rowdy]

Yes.

Although please give yourself a week or so using it to get used to its idiosyncrasies.

Also if you do, for some reason, decide you don't like it, you should be able to sell it for nearly what you paid for it - Topre boards tend to hold their value quite well.

[Heliosphere]

HHKBs hold value very well since everyone wants to try them. I purchased and tried out both an HHKB and HHKB Type-S in Japan. I liked the feeling of Topre, but wasn't much a fan of the layout so I sold both back in the US for more than I paid for in Japan (HHKBs cost something like $50 to $100 more in the US than in Japan).

Like rowdy said, there will be a short period in which you'll acclimate to the keyboard's nuances and you may like it more after a week than you will initially.

[snipars]

HHKBs hold value very well since everyone wants to try them. I purchased and tried out both an HHKB and HHKB Type-S in Japan. I liked the feeling of Topre, but wasn't much a fan of the layout so I sold both back in the US for more than I paid for in Japan (HHKBs cost something like $50 to $100 more in the US than in Japan).

Like rowdy said, there will be a short period in which you'll acclimate to the keyboard's nuances and you may like it more after a week than you will initially.

sounds great

[frosty]

No if you are like me who loves linear switches.

[Hypersphere]

The HHKB Pro 2 is a modern-day classic. It has many winning elements: 60% form factor, inspired layout that is efficient and intuitive, beautiful symmetry and styling, lovely dye-sub PBT keycaps, and Topre switches. I like the layout so much that I have remapped all my other keyboards to something as close as possible to the layout of the HHKB Pro 2.

Having heaped all this praise on this delightful little board, there are some things that I might like to change. These include the return stroke "clack" (which can be remedied with various silencing mods or by buying the Type-S). I also sometimes think I might prefer plate-mounted switches to the case-mounted switches in the HHKB Pro 2, but I am not positive about this. I also think I might  prefer 55g switches over the 45g switches, but here again, I am not sure. However, it is not difficult to do a dome swap to try out the heavier switches. Finally, it might be nice if the keyboard had a Bluetooth option, but I can certainly live without that.

Overall, I am very glad that I bought the HHKB Pro 2. I definitely do not regret it, and I would do it again.

[osi]

hhkb pro 2 - best keyboard ever made

[Kmynis]

HHKB kicks ass. The only negative thing is abs spacebar.

[Sygaldry]

HHKB kicks ass. The only negative thing is abs spacebar.

Matt3o is working on getting PBT Topre spacebars to market.

Too lazy to dig up the link but it should be one of the top threads in the Interest Check forum.

[jackalope]

The fn layer takes some getting use to, but once you have that down it is an amazing board.

[jackalope]

HHKB kicks ass. The only negative thing is abs spacebar.

Matt3o is working on getting PBT Topre spacebars to market.

Too lazy to dig up the link but it should be one of the top threads in the Interest Check forum.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=65120.0;topicseen

been watching that thread very closely,lol.

[Oobly]

It's not worth MY money, but it may be worth YOURS

I would get one if it came with Novatouch sliders (so I can put SA profile caps on), 55g domes (cos the 45g are too light for me) and was programmable (I don't like the arrow and edit key placement on the Fn layer), but if you like the layout, the stock keycaps and 45g switches it may be worth it.

[snipars]

**** this keyboard seems great 
 

No if you are like me who loves linear switches.

I already know that Topre switches are my favourite switches

[iMav]

There are tons of old threads discussing the many merits of the HHKB Pro (2).  I absolutely ADORE the key layout.  The function layer is so masterfully designed, I feel like I am missing keys on even monstrous, full-sized keyboards. 

Absolutely LOVE mine!

[Sygaldry]

It's not worth MY money, but it may be worth YOURS

I would get one if it came with Novatouch sliders (so I can put SA profile caps on), 55g domes (cos the 45g are too light for me) and was programmable (I don't like the arrow and edit key placement on the Fn layer), but if you like the layout, the stock keycaps and 45g switches it may be worth it.

Hasu's controller is easy to install and has got you covered for full programmability.

[CPTBadAss]

Hasu's controller is easy to install and has got you covered for full programmability.

Smasher816 also has a writeup describing how to get a Teensy to work as a programmable controller for an HHKB.

[Sygaldry]

Hasu's controller is easy to install and has got you covered for full programmability.

Smasher816 also has a writeup describing how to get a Teensy to work as a programmable controller for an HHKB.

True but working with the Teensy requires just a tad bit more programming and soldering know-how
Plus Hasu has/will-soon-have a Bluetooth version which I would totally have jumped on if I still had an HHKB to use it with!

[demik]

yes

[snipars]

I'm so tempted to buy the blank version, i don't even use the qwerty layout and i'm sure i could memorise the layout, although i see that it might not be the best idea

[Puddsy]

I'm so tempted to buy the blank version, i don't even use the qwerty layout and i'm sure i could memorise the layout, although i see that it might not be the best idea

I tried that, it was a bad idea. I think that's why I hated HHKBs for so long.

[johndavis33]

I think the HHKB is a *bit* overrated, IMO. I've got mine and love it, but it's not exactly my favorite keyboard. For the guy who said the thing about heavy switch users, I'm a big lover of heavy switches and I still love the HHKB's switches. The case mounting makes the bottoming out much more pleasant than on plate mounted MX boards. Topre is much more tactile than MX switches. They also feel a whole lot smoother and responsive than rubber domes. They just don't have that collapsing feeling that domes have, but they still retain the tactility.

That being said, it's got a whole lot of little problems. The first being the ABS spacebar. The logo is just an eyesore on the blank version. The wasted space in the bottom two corners will definately bother you. Why they couldn't have included an extra control key, windows key, caps lock key or really any key for that matter confounds me. It's got very tiny rubber feet and is very light, and therefore will slide around much more than your standard filco/cherry/coolermaster board. The keycaps have way more than the standard level of grainyness for PBT caps, which some people like and some people don't.

Still, chances are, if you're willing to consider a 250 dollar keyboard, just buy it. If you don't like it, you can sell it, take a bit of a loss, and still learn a lot about what you like and don't like. So if you buy it you'll either get a keyboard you'll love, or you'll be out a small bit of cash and you'll have a good idea of what keyboard you should get next.

[snipars]

I think the HHKB is a *bit* overrated, IMO. I've got mine and love it, but it's not exactly my favorite keyboard. For the guy who said the thing about heavy switch users, I'm a big lover of heavy switches and I still love the HHKB's switches. The case mounting makes the bottoming out much more pleasant than on plate mounted MX boards. Topre is much more tactile than MX switches. They also feel a whole lot smoother and responsive than rubber domes. They just don't have that collapsing feeling that domes have, but they still retain the tactility.

That being said, it's got a whole lot of little problems. The first being the ABS spacebar. The logo is just an eyesore on the blank version. The wasted space in the bottom two corners will definately bother you. Why they couldn't have included an extra control key, windows key, caps lock key or really any key for that matter confounds me. It's got very tiny rubber feet and is very light, and therefore will slide around much more than your standard filco/cherry/coolermaster board. The keycaps have way more than the standard level of grainyness for PBT caps, which some people like and some people don't.

Still, chances are, if you're willing to consider a 250 dollar keyboard, just buy it. If you don't like it, you can sell it, take a bit of a loss, and still learn a lot about what you like and don't like. So if you buy it you'll either get a keyboard you'll love, or you'll be out a small bit of cash and you'll have a good idea of what keyboard you should get next.

 
 
thanks for the advice! 
 

I'm so tempted to buy the blank version, i don't even use the qwerty layout and i'm sure i could memorise the layout, although i see that it might not be the best idea

I tried that, it was a bad idea. I think that's why I hated HHKBs for so long.

I'll get the printed one in that case

[Polymer]

That being said, it's got a whole lot of little problems. The first being the ABS spacebar.

Yes..but every Topre Keyboard has this problem right?  Or does the Leo have PBT?  Thought they were all ABS.

The logo is just an eyesore on the blank version. The wasted space in the bottom two corners will definately bother you.

I don't notice the logo and the wasted space won't definitely bother someone...although it definitely bothers you..

I DO think that the space is wasted but for whatever reason, that space helps me use the CTRL key properly...even though I configure my RF's the same way, it isn't as natural as using the HHKB one..and I have no idea why....My only guess is my fingers notice nothing is there...

It's got very tiny rubber feet and is very light, and therefore will slide around much more than your standard filco/cherry/coolermaster board.

It depends on each user.  Mine doesn't slide around at all...I'm going to guess this has to do with a person's typing form because I can't get mine to slide at all (although I don't game with it either).  It DOES have small feet though.

[johndavis33]

That being said, it's got a whole lot of little problems. The first being the ABS spacebar.

Yes..but every Topre Keyboard has this problem right?  Or does the Leo have PBT?  Thought they were all ABS.

The logo is just an eyesore on the blank version. The wasted space in the bottom two corners will definately bother you.

I don't notice the logo and the wasted space won't definitely bother someone...although it definitely bothers you..

I DO think that the space is wasted but for whatever reason, that space helps me use the CTRL key properly...even though I configure my RF's the same way, it isn't as natural as using the HHKB one..and I have no idea why....My only guess is my fingers notice nothing is there...

It's got very tiny rubber feet and is very light, and therefore will slide around much more than your standard filco/cherry/coolermaster board.

It depends on each user.  Mine doesn't slide around at all...I'm going to guess this has to do with a person's typing form because I can't get mine to slide at all (although I don't game with it either).  It DOES have small feet though.

Every Topre board has this problem. That doesn't make it ok. 30 year old model m's were made with PBT spacebars. It's not like the technology isn't there.

And most of what I don't like about the keyboard are minor promblems, but for 250 dollars you really do expect a product to do all the little things. IMO, the HHKB doesn't do all the little things. But most people really aren't bothered by it the way I am.

[jwaz]

Yeah, it's worth it and like others pointed out the after market will always be there whether you want to use it to buy or to sell.

I'd say go for blanks, there isn't really a reason to get printed unless you can't touch type and the function layer makes so much sense that you'll get used to it with little to no pain because of how genius the design is.


I have probably owned 5 or so over the last few years but have traded some. The Type-S is by far my favorite, I had it stock and then 55g and now it's back to 45g with hasu's controller. The other two are a work board and a backup.


Also keep in mind that PFU did a big sale last year so if you're in the market keep your fingers crossed.

[byker]

Yeah, it's worth it and like others pointed out the after market will always be there whether you want to use it to buy or to sell.

I'd say go for blanks, there isn't really a reason to get printed unless you can't touch type and the function layer makes so much sense that you'll get used to it with little to no pain because of how genius the design is.


I have probably owned 5 or so over the last few years but have traded some. The Type-S is by far my favorite, I had it stock and then 55g and now it's back to 45g with hasu's controller. The other two are a work board and a backup.


Also keep in mind that PFU did a big sale last year so if you're in the market keep your fingers crossed.

This, I love my blank caps. The function layer makes soo much sense, that it only takes a day or two to memorize.

[munch]

I don't like it, but it's a good keyboard.
if I was a topre fan, I would like something with a Poker 2 layout, rather than the CTRL being moved up and no caps lock - BUT, this is only because I play videogames, and I use caps lock as my Push-to-Talk voice chat key...
and I don't like the backspace being moved down, and the split above it either.
also I wouldn't mind a metal backplate... cause it doesn't have one right?

so, it's basically a good board, but has some things to really consider.

[byker]

I don't like it, but it's a good keyboard.
if I was a topre fan, I would like something with a Poker 2 layout, rather than the CTRL being moved up and no caps lock - BUT, this is only because I play videogames, and I use caps lock as my Push-to-Talk voice chat key...
and I don't like the backspace being moved down, and the split above it either.
also I wouldn't mind a metal backplate... cause it doesn't have one right?

so, it's basically a good board, but has some things to really consider.

Most of those are personal preference though... You should look at the FC660C. I prefer that the hhkb has no standard ctrl key, that is has the backspace moved down, and the split keys above. Also the Leopold has a backplate, and it feels quite a bit different than the hhkb, so I can honestly say that I disagree with all of your statements.

[munch]

I don't like it, but it's a good keyboard.
if I was a topre fan, I would like something with a Poker 2 layout, rather than the CTRL being moved up and no caps lock - BUT, this is only because I play videogames, and I use caps lock as my Push-to-Talk voice chat key...
and I don't like the backspace being moved down, and the split above it either.
also I wouldn't mind a metal backplate... cause it doesn't have one right?

so, it's basically a good board, but has some things to really consider.

Most of those are personal preference though... You should look at the FC660C. I prefer that the hhkb has no standard ctrl key, that is has the backspace moved down, and the split keys above. Also the Leopold has a backplate, and it feels quite a bit different than the hhkb, so I can honestly say that I disagree with all of your statements.

precisely. they're personal preferences, and that is just my take on it, which are things he may not have been aware of, that are worth considering.
I was indeed looking at the FC660C, but after trying a bunch of Topres, I am not a Topre man! thanks for the suggestion though.

[Polymer]

Every Topre board has this problem. That doesn't make it ok. 30 year old model m's were made with PBT spacebars. It's not like the technology isn't there.

And most of what I don't like about the keyboard are minor promblems, but for 250 dollars you really do expect a product to do all the little things. IMO, the HHKB doesn't do all the little things. But most people really aren't bothered by it the way I am.

They chose not to use PBT on the spacebars..they're not the first...maybe they had too many issues when they tried and it wasn't worth trying to fix it.  Is that a major problem?  Not really...Would I like PBT?  Sure. 

Everyone wants their stuff to do everything they want..but they're all just personal preference.  Some of your "minor problems" aren't even problems to some..they're features to some.  Have you seen some of the custom layouts people have purposely picked on some of the 60% Cherry boards?  Yes, some people pick the HHKB layout...

[ideus]

I have PBT space bars in my MX keyboards at home and at work, and that was the only thing that really annoyed me before, the ABS space bars get shiny in just a few weeks. I know it may be a minor thing when you have paid a premium price for a keyboard like the HHKB, you would rationalize the design logic that the manufacturer uses to choose the ABS over other plastics, maybe the warping tendency of PBT due to shrink, and internal stresses during the molding process. However, in my case I just cannot rationalize why I should live with an ABS space bar while paying a premium price for a board.

When someone asks others for reasons to buy something, the only explanation for me is he/she needs confirmation for a purchase he/she is not convinced about already. If you think the HHKB is a good keyboard for you and you are still hesitating due to its price, just buy one and see for yourself, if you do not like it you can always offer it in the classifieds and get some loss in the process for the chance to try it. There is always people wondering if Topre could be better than other switches, that may be very happy to get one under retail price for the chance to try it.

I know that there are some people here that are part of a cult on the HHKB, but the facts are undisputed, it does not have arrows, neither a way to get them accesible directly a la Poker X for example, it is not programmable, and there are very few key caps sets available for it. Also, the switches are not for everyone, and its price in its stock form is high compared with other retail MX 60s. Of course its price may be compared with some custom koreans, or with a stock 60 with a premium aluminum case.

I know many will disagree with this opinion, however, as I said facts are facts. Make your mind and spend your money. 

[jknight]

I got a Happy Hacking Professional 2 (Dark Gray) unprinted 3 weeks ago. It's the first mechanical keyboard I've had in a long time since since way back when I used a Microsoft Natural keyboard, and it's really great having a real keyboard again after a few years of hammering away on a Macbook keyboard.

I chose the HHKB Pro because of the compactness (for use with laptop), portability, and aesthetics. If these aren't a concern and, in particular, you want dedicated arrow keys, you might want to shop around some more.

Personally, I've had a very positive experience with it thus far and haven't had any real learning curve issues.

I'm using some customizations to make it work for me:
- DIP #2 for mac mode
- installed the mac driver so I never have to touch my mac keyboard for volume and brightness.
- I'm using witch (http://manytricks.com/witch/) so option+tab works like it does in windows (this is more a general issue than HHKB related)
- Using Karabiner with Control L+hjkl for left/down/up/right arrow keys. I'm not enough of a keyboard hacker to need to program my keyboard, so this key remapping works well for me

The lack of arrow keys has been a minor annoyance, but I'm getting used to it as well as using Karabiner to remap hjkl keys to work as arrows like they do in vim

In terms of printed vs unprinted, I actually didn't intend to order the unprinted version (I must have made a mistake in the checkout) but it turns out I'm glad I got it because it's forced me to correct some bad habits in my typing. So in terms of printed vs. unprinted, I'm personally very happy with unprinted (although could do with a red key in the middle of the numbers row for reference).

The only negative I've had so far is the noise, and I think this is something to consider. It does make a lovely and satisfying clicking noise typing but those around you might not be so satisfied. If you work in an office or have anyone around you annoyed by the sound of typing, it is fairly loud for others. If I could go back and re-order I'd consider the S model. Check out youtube for some videos to give you an idea of the level of racket it makes while typing.

[snipars]

thanks for the advice everyone! sounds like a great keyboard for me, even if it is without it's flaws

[eth0s]

thanks for the advice everyone! sounds like a great keyboard for me, even if it is without it's flaws

HHKB Pro 2 is the best keyboard you can buy.  The so-called "flaws" you have read about are all true, but they are so minor that they don't warrant consideration.  But with that said, I have to agree that the ABS space bar is an annoyance (why u do dat PFU Corp?), but the only downside is that it gets shiny.  And the Fn layer will take a slight adjustment period, also the Caps Lock and Ctrl switcheroo is something to adjust to.  However, these "adjustments" happen quite naturally as you use the keyboard, and as such I really hate to even mention them, because they really are so minor.  But they do exist.

[Hypersphere]

Yes, I was amazed and surprised by how fast I adjusted to the HHKB Pro 2 layout. Not only did I adjust, I found the layout so ideal that I have remapped all my other keyboards to the HHKB Pro 2 layout or something as close to it as possible.

The only negative for me about the HHKB Pro 2 is the return stroke clack of the keys, which is probably accentuated by the fact that the switches are case-mounted instead of plate-mounted. This is why I currently use my RF 879b 55g most of the time, but I still keep the HHKB Pro 2 in my keyboard rotation along with my IBM XT.

[johndavis33]

The layout really is great. I switch between my HHKB, a model m13, and a ducky shine 3 daily/weekly, and I really don't take any time to adjust. Eversince I got my HHKB, I turned capslock into control using sharpkeys for all my keyboards. The one really neat thing about it that I miss on other keyboards is the arrow diamond.

Does anyone know if there could be a way to get something like the arrow diamond on an m13 plugged into a PC? Being able to navigate using both the mouse and the cursor keys without having to move my wrists from typing position would be amazing.

[Hypersphere]

The layout really is great. I switch between my HHKB, a model m13, and a ducky shine 3 daily/weekly, and I really don't take any time to adjust. Eversince I got my HHKB, I turned capslock into control using sharpkeys for all my keyboards. The one really neat thing about it that I miss on other keyboards is the arrow diamond.

Does anyone know if there could be a way to get something like the arrow diamond on an m13 plugged into a PC? Being able to navigate using both the mouse and the cursor keys without having to move my wrists from typing position would be amazing.

On all my keyboards that have a Right Control under the Right Shift, I remap the Right Control as Fn and then use the cursor diamond, Fn+[ = Up Arrow, etc.

My primary OS is Mac OS X, and I use Karabiner remapping software, which is easy to use and works beautifully. I use Windows and Linux as well, but I share my keyboard across Mac, Windows, and Linux using Synergy software, so I only need to remap under Mac OS X.