Topre! Leopold 660c vs HHKB P2 vs CM Novatouch

[bowji]

My interest for topre switch is growing, especially since I recently joined the GH community, so I have been looking into some low profile topre boards. As the title lists my top contenders for a topre board, I would like some opinion from current/old users of these boards. I have read through some of the threads on GH I can find about the three boards and the main difference I found to be is layout. Other difference being switch weights and price. For a cherry mx switch user I dont have the slightest clue of the difference in topre weights. As for price, Im wandering if it can be justified through durability. Im searching for personal opinions/experience for future topre converters, including myself. I appreciate your time and input!

Thanks <3

[Puddsy]

REALFORCE 45G UNIFORM

[Heliosphere]

I seem to have caught the topre fever as well. I think 45g topre is the most friendly for typists used to mx brown, red, or blue. Heavier mx typists  may want to try out the 55g. I like my new 55g but it's a little tiring. I own a modified 45g that I'm going to try unmodding to see how vanilla 45g feels. I also want to get a novatouch or even 660c. I've used hhkbs before but the layout is too minimalist for me, though the typing felt great.

[do_Og@n]

I have tried all but the Novatouch. Although the feel of the HHKB was amazing I do love my FC660c A LOT more. The dedicated arrow keys won me over but it also feels quite a bit different than my 45g Uniform 87u.

I use the 87u everyday at work and haven't looked back. I would still like to try the 55g but for everyday typing you can't beat the 45g IMO. Saving up for the Novatouch right now and might be able to get it before Christmas.

[bowji]

REALFORCE 45G UNIFORM

I read great reviews on Realforce boards, 45g along with 55g. Its just the layout steering me away from it (same with novatouch). I currently have a ducky TKL board and I want to try something smaller, preferably in the 60% range.

I seem to have caught the topre fever as well. I think 45g topre is the most friendly for typists used to mx brown, red, or blue. Heavier mx typists  may want to try out the 55g. I like my new 55g but it's a little tiring. I own a modified 45g that I'm going to try unmodding to see how vanilla 45g feels. I also want to get a novatouch or even 660c. I've used hhkbs before but the layout is too minimalist for me, though the typing felt great.

Is there a vast difference in 45g and 55g? I havent tried but the ~10g difference seems minimal, but again Im speculating from a topre noob perspective.

I have tried all but the Novatouch. Although the feel of the HHKB was amazing I do love my FC660c A LOT more. The dedicated arrow keys won me over but it also feels quite a bit different than my 45g Uniform 87u.

I use the 87u everyday at work and haven't looked back. I would still like to try the 55g but for everyday typing you can't beat the 45g IMO. Saving up for the Novatouch right now and might be able to get it before Christmas.

Exactly my thoughts, the small form factor+arrow keys is why Im leaning towards the 660c (and its easily available here in Korea compared to HHKB). When you get the Novatouch please let me know how it compares to your 660c/87u!

[Heliosphere]

I personally prefer the extra buttons on a TKL layout over the HHKB. The 660c seems to have the best layout for a compact keyboard though.

I think the 55g is a lot more taxing on the fingers because you have to apply the full 55g at the start of the keypress to collapse the rubber dome, after which your finger bottoms out harder. However the higher resistance also makes the return snappier. I'll let you know the difference once I try out my 45g 87U without the silencing mod.

[lookitdisnub]

I agree the 55g Topres are noticeably stiffer than 45g. I much prefer the 45g

[Heliosphere]

Alright, I just removed the silencing mod from my Realforce 87U 45g and tested out both 45g and 55g on typeracer. After repeating the same paragraph many times, I got the same WPM on both keyboards.

After having used the 55g for almost a week, the 45g felt much less tactile than the 55g. I guess it's sort of like the difference between MX browns and clears. I might even go so far as to say 45g feels wimpy in comparison, BUT it's much smoother and more pleasant on the fingers than 55g. Nevertheless, I had no trouble typing on the 45g.

45g feels buttery smooth while 55g is much more "punctuated" and punchy.

This test reinforces my belief that 45g is much more suitable for someone coming from MX browns/reds/blues, although most Topre keyboards are in 45g so there's no problem. However, the 55g gives a pretty unique typing experience and I think it's completely reasonable for one to have both 45g and 55g Topre keyboards in his/her collection.

As an extra note, the 45g sounds quieter than the 55g, even without the silencing mod. In fact the 45g is quiet enough that I think the mod's not really necessary, at least not for the Realforce 87U. The Novatouch will definitely benefit from a landing pad silencing mod.

Here's a photo of both keyboards, with the white 55g on the top and black 45g on the bottom:

[bowji]

I personally prefer the extra buttons on a TKL layout over the HHKB. The 660c seems to have the best layout for a compact keyboard though.

I think the 55g is a lot more taxing on the fingers because you have to apply the full 55g at the start of the keypress to collapse the rubber dome, after which your finger bottoms out harder. However the higher resistance also makes the return snappier. I'll let you know the difference once I try out my 45g 87U without the silencing mod.

Alright, I just removed the silencing mod from my Realforce 87U 45g and tested out both 45g and 55g on typeracer. After repeating the same paragraph many times, I got the same WPM on both keyboards.

After having used the 55g for almost a week, the 45g felt much less tactile than the 55g. I guess it's sort of like the difference between MX browns and clears. I might even go so far as to say 45g feels wimpy in comparison, BUT it's much smoother and more pleasant on the fingers than 55g. Nevertheless, I had no trouble typing on the 45g.

45g feels buttery smooth while 55g is much more "punctuated" and punchy.

This test reinforces my belief that 45g is much more suitable for someone coming from MX browns/reds/blues, although most Topre keyboards are in 45g so there's no problem. However, the 55g gives a pretty unique typing experience and I think it's completely reasonable for one to have both 45g and 55g Topre keyboards in his/her collection.

As an extra note, the 45g sounds quieter than the 55g, even without the silencing mod. In fact the 45g is quiet enough that I think the mod's not really necessary, at least not for the Realforce 87U. The Novatouch will definitely benefit from a landing pad silencing mod.

Here's a photo of both keyboards, with the white 55g on the top and black 45g on the bottom:

Show Image

Thank you so much for this! I am a fan of "punctuated" responses, tactile feedback along with its clicky sound is what lured me into MX blues, however your comment on 55g being a bit more taxing on the fingers makes me wary. Of course, that is if I take the RealForce route. With that in mind HHKB seems to have 45g switches while the 660c has conflicting opinions despite whats describes(45g on paper), observations ranging from 45g, 55g or even in between. This continuously fuels my curiousity/confusion/intrigue in Topres. Truth be told, I will never know what it is like until I actually own one, but this is great that I am learning and getting information before my next purchase. If you dont mind me asking, how long have you owned the Realforce boards? Im curious to know their durability to justify myself purchasing another keyboard. My mx tkl is under a year old with no issues, I want to make sure my topre purchase will be the same if not be a "life-time" board.

I agree the 55g Topres are noticeably stiffer than 45g. I much prefer the 45g

Im curious what mx switch compares best with the 45g and 55g so I can test the glimpse of it.

[Heliosphere]

55g is a little tiring but my fingers got used to the weight after a few days of use. I've only owned the 55g for about a week, but I purchased it from amos5606 in Taiwan who used it previously. His oldest video of it is from 7 months ago so the keyboard is probably only about 8 months old. It still looks almost brand new except for a bit of staining on the keys which should be cleanable. Here are some of his 55g typing videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItYEOq1b-1g&list=UUzAOJvruDU16B3-yYEbnb8A&index=2 (I should point out that his "silenced" HHKB isn't the type-S which is much quieter).

The 45g Topre still has tactile feedback, just less so compared to 55g. I've owned the 45g Realforce for 3 months, but I also bought it used and modified from a Reddit user. I don't know how long he's had the Realforce for, but the keys are more scratched up and the case a little worn / shiny. The build quality of Realforce is really good and I would say for a typical user it should last many years. I've also heard that the rubber loses some strength after a lot of use, so it's possible the keys become a little lighter after a long time. Topre life cycle should be on par with MX (tens of millions of keypresses).

I want to say that MX brown or clear is most similar to Topre, but the feeling is not the same of course. MX brown has the tactile bump somewhere in the middle of the travel, while Topre is mostly at the beginning like you're pressing on a bubble. MX brown also feels scratchy (plastic on plastic friction) while Topre is very smooth (bending rubber).

[skuko]

so my topre history is like this:

1. bought a FC660C
2. bought a novatouch
3. sold the novatouch (preferred the leopold vastly)
4. bought a 55g RF
5. selling the realforce at the moment (prefer the leopold vastly - feel, thock, compactness, case build, etc.)
6. will be getting a second leo for work

i think my preference is clear from the above

[rowdy]

so my topre history is like this:

1. bought a FC660C
2. bought a novatouch
3. sold the novatouch (preferred the leopold vastly)
4. bought a 55g RF
5. selling the realforce at the moment (prefer the leopold vastly - feel, thock, compactness, case build, etc.)
6. will be getting a second leo for work

i think my preference is clear from the above

Leopold definitely did something right with the FC660C - I don't think I've seen a negative review of it yet!

[bowji]

55g is a little tiring but my fingers got used to the weight after a few days of use. I've only owned the 55g for about a week, but I purchased it from amos5606 in Taiwan who used it previously. His oldest video of it is from 7 months ago so the keyboard is probably only about 8 months old. It still looks almost brand new except for a bit of staining on the keys which should be cleanable. Here are some of his 55g typing videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItYEOq1b-1g&list=UUzAOJvruDU16B3-yYEbnb8A&index=2 (I should point out that his "silenced" HHKB isn't the type-S which is much quieter).

The 45g Topre still has tactile feedback, just less so compared to 55g. I've owned the 45g Realforce for 3 months, but I also bought it used and modified from a Reddit user. I don't know how long he's had the Realforce for, but the keys are more scratched up and the case a little worn / shiny. The build quality of Realforce is really good and I would say for a typical user it should last many years. I've also heard that the rubber loses some strength after a lot of use, so it's possible the keys become a little lighter after a long time. Topre life cycle should be on par with MX (tens of millions of keypresses).

I want to say that MX brown or clear is most similar to Topre, but the feeling is not the same of course. MX brown has the tactile bump somewhere in the middle of the travel, while Topre is mostly at the beginning like you're pressing on a bubble. MX brown also feels scratchy (plastic on plastic friction) while Topre is very smooth (bending rubber).

That sounds soooooo smexy!! (hope its not TOO weird to be turned on by the sound of someone typing..) Its like a silenced pistol, sounds different yet weirdly appealing.

Its reassuring even the 45g has some kind of feedback, which I prefer, because I cant stand the dull mx reds. On top of that, comparing topres to mx browns or clears is pretty clear I will enjoy typing on it since it was those switches I was debating on before I landed on my current mx blues. Now, if topre's life cycle is on par with mx switches Im thoroughly convinced I should convert soon. I want my next mechanical keyboard to be "the one" that I can use daily for years without turning my eyes on new ones. Unfortunately, this community gives me the apple syndrome, making me want to buy every new product everyone is raving about. Its a good thing the community is striving it just sucks my wallet is going to suffer if I cave every time. And lets not forget about artisan keycaps.. which Im very fond of as well.

As a thread I started wanting to hear others opinions on topre, you alone convinced me topre is the way to go. Maybe the only way. It was just an interest with different board options in mind for a future purchase while taking my time to learn.. you made me want to go order a topre board RIGHT NOW. 

so my topre history is like this:

1. bought a FC660C
2. bought a novatouch
3. sold the novatouch (preferred the leopold vastly)
4. bought a 55g RF
5. selling the realforce at the moment (prefer the leopold vastly - feel, thock, compactness, case build, etc.)
6. will be getting a second leo for work

i think my preference is clear from the above

With all due respect, thats the least informative yet MOST convincing post on why I should choose leopold out of all the threads/posts Ive read lol
Im guessing its your daily board?

so my topre history is like this:

1. bought a FC660C
2. bought a novatouch
3. sold the novatouch (preferred the leopold vastly)
4. bought a 55g RF
5. selling the realforce at the moment (prefer the leopold vastly - feel, thock, compactness, case build, etc.)
6. will be getting a second leo for work

i think my preference is clear from the above

Leopold definitely did something right with the FC660C - I don't think I've seen a negative review of it yet!

Same here! I read up on quite a few threads relating to the listed keyboards and the 660c seems to barely have any complaints. Only "negative" review was the isolated 2 keys on the top right, but thats just personal preference. I personally think that gives a unique accent to the board that other layouts dont offer, all while being the perfect spot for your favorite keycaps.

[skuko]

yeah the FC660C is pretty much my daily board at home, but i'm too lazy to bring it to work every day, so i keep my mx black filco at work at the moment. the 55g RF is sitting in its original box on my shelf at home waiting for the sale. when i manage to sell it, i will get a second FC660C.

the FN + arrows for pgup/pgdn/home/end are super intuitive, that's the only thing i was missing on a daily basis with anything less than a TKL. at home i mainly game, but i don't play realtime strategies, so i don't really need dedicated F keys. even if i did, i can dip switch the win and FN keys, so i wouldn't need two hands. i was missing the F keys in planetside 2 while switching seats in vehicles, but as said, that can be remedied via the dip switch (haven't done that, don't play in vehicles in PS2 that much to justify it - lol at my laziness)

so yeah. been using the FC660C for a couple of weeks now, and i love it. not a single complaint. i'm by no means a typist, my job is a sysadmin for transaction authorization systems, so i don't type that much, at home i almost exclusively game (guild wars 2 mostly at the moment, for which the FC660C is awesome)

[bowji]

yeah the FC660C is pretty much my daily board at home, but i'm too lazy to bring it to work every day, so i keep my mx black filco at work at the moment. the 55g RF is sitting in its original box on my shelf at home waiting for the sale. when i manage to sell it, i will get a second FC660C.

the FN + arrows for pgup/pgdn/home/end are super intuitive, that's the only thing i was missing on a daily basis with anything less than a TKL. at home i mainly game, but i don't play realtime strategies, so i don't really need dedicated F keys. even if i did, i can dip switch the win and FN keys, so i wouldn't need two hands. i was missing the F keys in planetside 2 while switching seats in vehicles, but as said, that can be remedied via the dip switch (haven't done that, don't play in vehicles in PS2 that much to justify it - lol at my laziness)

so yeah. been using the FC660C for a couple of weeks now, and i love it. not a single complaint. i'm by no means a typist, my job is a sysadmin for transaction authorization systems, so i don't type that much, at home i almost exclusively game (guild wars 2 mostly at the moment, for which the FC660C is awesome)

Seeing someone else use the 660c as a daily board is certainly a plus for me to choose leopold over the other topres as I want my first topre board to be a daily board as well. Im a little hesitant on 60% key layout but your claim on the FN keys being intuitive gives me peace in mind that Im heading in the right direction. Im no typist as well so your personal experiences seems to reflect my exact needs. Same with gaming (mostly blizzard games and some league)
I appreciate your personal input <3

[skuko]

matt3o also uses a FC660C as a daily driver, but he replaced the rubber domes for 55g ones (presumably from a RF). or at least so he told me.

[bowji]

matt3o also uses a FC660C as a daily driver, but he replaced the rubber domes for 55g ones (presumably from a RF). or at least so he told me.

Not too sure who he is (Im still a new to this community), but its gives me more assurance 660c is the right choice if members would go that far to replace individual domes. Replacing/modding seems like a far fetched goal for me, especially when I just recently grasped the idea that theres a big difference between 45g/55g. Although its personal preference, looking at what Heliosphere had to say between the two I feel like 45g is right for me. Hopefully, the stock 45g on the 660c is what Im looking for.

Ive been looking around online hoping to get my hands on the 660c this month and got struck with a "happy dilemma".... color. I cant decide between the two dye-subbed variations because they both look so darn sexy!

1st world problem..

[Puddsy]

Black boards are boring, everyone has one. I vote white if you can find it.

[Heliosphere]

I would choose a non-black version too, which is probably less expensive for you than us since you're in South Korea!

[Hypersphere]

The Leopold FC660C was my first Topre. I very much appreciated the build quality, sound and feel of the board. I didn't like the stock keycaps that were available at the time, and the layout was not quite to my liking, so I gave the board away.

Next, I got the HHKB Pro 2. I love the 60% form factor, layout, and the dye-sub PBT keycaps. I have kept this and it is in my main keyboard rotation.

More recently, I acquired the RF 87ub 45g and RF 87ub 55g. These are both excellent and I rank them almost the same, but I have some preference for the 55g, which has a "snappier" feel to it than the 45g. These remain in my main keyboard rotation, and I have remapped them as closely as I can to the HHKB Pro 2 layout.

The other keyboard that is currently in my main rotation is an IBM XT outfitted with a Teensy and Soarer's Converter and remapped as closely as I can to a Mac/HHKB Pro 2 layout.

I also have the CM Novatouch. I like the fact that I can put Cherry-compatible keycaps on it, and I like it better than any Cherry mx board I have tried, but not nearly as much as my other Topre-switch keyboards.

[skuko]

The Leopold FC660C was my first Topre. I very much appreciated the build quality, sound and feel of the board. I didn't like the stock keycaps that were available at the time, and the layout was not quite to my liking, so I gave the board away.

Next, I got the HHKB Pro 2. I love the 60% form factor, layout, and the dye-sub PBT keycaps. I have kept this and it is in my main keyboard rotation.

More recently, I acquired the RF 87ub 45g and RF 87ub 55g. These are both excellent and I rank them almost the same, but I have some preference for the 55g, which has a "snappier" feel to it than the 45g. These remain in my main keyboard rotation, and I have remapped them as closely as I can to the HHKB Pro 2 layout.

The other keyboard that is currently in my main rotation is an IBM XT outfitted with a Teensy and Soarer's Converter and remapped as closely as I can to a Mac/HHKB Pro 2 layout.

I also have the CM Novatouch. I like the fact that I can put Cherry-compatible keycaps on it, and I like it better than any Cherry mx board I have tried, but not nearly as much as my other Topre-switch keyboards.

one thing to note here, the FC660C nowadays also come with dyesub PBT caps

here's mine, i absolutely love it (typing thsi on it)

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=33130.msg1521115#msg1521115

[bowji]

Black boards are boring, everyone has one. I vote white if you can find it.

I would choose a non-black version too, which is probably less expensive for you than us since you're in South Korea!

I must admit the white one has a more classy tone to it. Its just the black one suits the theme of my workstation. Luckly shipping within Korea from the leopold site is extremely cheap, free if the order is above x amount.
The dilemma continues....

The Leopold FC660C was my first Topre. I very much appreciated the build quality, sound and feel of the board. I didn't like the stock keycaps that were available at the time, and the layout was not quite to my liking, so I gave the board away.

Next, I got the HHKB Pro 2. I love the 60% form factor, layout, and the dye-sub PBT keycaps. I have kept this and it is in my main keyboard rotation.

More recently, I acquired the RF 87ub 45g and RF 87ub 55g. These are both excellent and I rank them almost the same, but I have some preference for the 55g, which has a "snappier" feel to it than the 45g. These remain in my main keyboard rotation, and I have remapped them as closely as I can to the HHKB Pro 2 layout.

The other keyboard that is currently in my main rotation is an IBM XT outfitted with a Teensy and Soarer's Converter and remapped as closely as I can to a Mac/HHKB Pro 2 layout.

I also have the CM Novatouch. I like the fact that I can put Cherry-compatible keycaps on it, and I like it better than any Cherry mx board I have tried, but not nearly as much as my other Topre-switch keyboards.

HHKB is still in consideration because the specs, durability and layout is very tempting. Price on the other hand... HHKB seems pricey compared to the other available topres, plus no local retailers here carry the HHKB so shipping will be as added expense.
Novatouch as well, seems legit. The mx keycap compatibility is definitely something on top of my head, customization on that board would be sick!

The Leopold FC660C was my first Topre. I very much appreciated the build quality, sound and feel of the board. I didn't like the stock keycaps that were available at the time, and the layout was not quite to my liking, so I gave the board away.

Next, I got the HHKB Pro 2. I love the 60% form factor, layout, and the dye-sub PBT keycaps. I have kept this and it is in my main keyboard rotation.

More recently, I acquired the RF 87ub 45g and RF 87ub 55g. These are both excellent and I rank them almost the same, but I have some preference for the 55g, which has a "snappier" feel to it than the 45g. These remain in my main keyboard rotation, and I have remapped them as closely as I can to the HHKB Pro 2 layout.

The other keyboard that is currently in my main rotation is an IBM XT outfitted with a Teensy and Soarer's Converter and remapped as closely as I can to a Mac/HHKB Pro 2 layout.

I also have the CM Novatouch. I like the fact that I can put Cherry-compatible keycaps on it, and I like it better than any Cherry mx board I have tried, but not nearly as much as my other Topre-switch keyboards.

one thing to note here, the FC660C nowadays also come with dyesub PBT caps

here's mine, i absolutely love it (typing thsi on it)

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=33130.msg1521115#msg1521115

That 660c.. CLASSY. Looks sooooo smexy! 

[bowji]

It little overdue but I finally got a 660c.
Thanks to those who gave me insight on topre switches, its absolutely orgasmic to type on 
Starting 2015 with a new board<3
Happy New Year!

[rowdy]

It little overdue but I finally got a 660c.
Thanks to those who gave me insight on topre switches, its absolutely orgasmic to type on 
Starting 2015 with a new board<3
Happy New Year!

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Congratulations on your acquisition - a fine keyboard you have there

[Findecanor]

That is a fine-looking board! Iove the colour scheme.

[bowji]

It little overdue but I finally got a 660c.
Thanks to those who gave me insight on topre switches, its absolutely orgasmic to type on 
Starting 2015 with a new board<3
Happy New Year!

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Congratulations on your acquisition - a fine keyboard you have there

That is a fine-looking board! Iove the colour scheme.

Im in love with it already! expecting it to get better n better as I get used to it.
Super satisfied 

[spiritistz]

If I live in Korea or anywhere nearby, I will definitely get one of these...

[Flyersfan1]

If I live in Korea or anywhere nearby, I will definitely get one of these...

There are some on ebay, this one isn't too much higher than what EK had them listed for.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/LEOPOLD-FC660C-Electrostatic-Capacitive-Topre-Switch-Keyboard-66Key-/141499655710?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item20f209661e

[spiritistz]

If I live in Korea or anywhere nearby, I will definitely get one of these...

There are some on ebay, this one isn't too much higher than what EK had them listed for.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/LEOPOLD-FC660C-Electrostatic-Capacitive-Topre-Switch-Keyboard-66Key-/141499655710?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item20f209661e

It still based on Korea, I had bad memories about international shipping before so...

Thanks for the link anyway.

[Cafeine]

I love (LOVE) the RF 87U 55g but for everything else, FC660C > * (form factor, best 45g feeling in Topre family for me, etc.). Yep, tried them all. Current collection here. And yep, they are SOOOO CUTE. 


Guess what is my fav layout.   

[sorijealut]

I am certainly going to visit Yongsan and buy a FC660C on my next trip to Korea...!
Waiting for my HHKB which is arriving in 4 days or so 

[bowji]

If I live in Korea or anywhere nearby, I will definitely get one of these...

There are some on ebay, this one isn't too much higher than what EK had them listed for.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/LEOPOLD-FC660C-Electrostatic-Capacitive-Topre-Switch-Keyboard-66Key-/141499655710?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item20f209661e

It still based on Korea, I had bad memories about international shipping before so...

Thanks for the link anyway.

If that ebay seller's packaging is any similar to how leopold packaged my delivery I can confidently say damage risks are minimal. My 660c box came with 3 layers of bubble wrap inside a bigger box, and thats shipping within Korea.

I love (LOVE) the RF 87U 55g but for everything else, FC660C > * (form factor, best 45g feeling in Topre family for me, etc.). Yep, tried them all. Current collection here. And yep, they are SOOOO CUTE. 


Guess what is my fav layout.   

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Dayuuuum! nice collection  :thumb:
I wanna say the bottom one is your favorite layout?

I am certainly going to visit Yongsan and buy a FC660C on my next trip to Korea...!
Waiting for my HHKB which is arriving in 4 days or so  :D

Ive been meaning to go to Yongsan ever since I moved here... The cold weather is just repelling me to make far trips.  :p

[MGH]

I love (LOVE) the RF 87U 55g but for everything else, FC660C > * (form factor, best 45g feeling in Topre family for me, etc.). Yep, tried them all. Current collection here. And yep, they are SOOOO CUTE. 


Guess what is my fav layout.   

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Would you say the leopold or the hhkb's function layer is easier to use?

[bowji]

Although the question wasnt directed to me, I can speak up that the 660c fn layer is very intuitive. My favorite fn feature is the fn+arrow keys, home/end/pageup/pagedown. Its easy enough that I dont have to say which arrows corresponds to which 

[MGH]

Although the question wasnt directed to me, I can speak up that the 660c fn layer is very intuitive. My favorite fn feature is the fn+arrow keys, home/end/pageup/pagedown. Its easy enough that I dont have to say which arrows corresponds to which 

Do you find the placement of the FN key better? I don't think my pinky can stretch all the way to the HHKB fn

[bowji]

Although the question wasnt directed to me, I can speak up that the 660c fn layer is very intuitive. My favorite fn feature is the fn+arrow keys, home/end/pageup/pagedown. Its easy enough that I dont have to say which arrows corresponds to which 

Do you find the placement of the FN key better? I don't think my pinky can stretch all the way to the HHKB fn

I havent tried an HHKB to make a judgement which fn placement is better, but it was one of the topre boards I was considering before purchasing the 660c. As for the fn on the 660c, its perfect for the right pinky. Though Im not fully accustomed to it yet since I hit the ctrl key next to the fn time to time.

[Lunatique]

I just posted a humorous rant about 55g vs 45g Topre recently: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=67186

I agree that the Leopold FC660C is a very special keyboard. I love the compact size (very portable), the intuitive Fn layer of the arrow keys, the quality of the keycaps (which I understand is a vast improvement over the earlier version's keycaps). When I type on the FC660C, the keycaps gives off the impression that they're made of some expensive hard-wood instead of plastic. I'm not sure why I get that impression. I don't get that impression when typing on my RealForce 87U keyboards.

Out of my three Topre keyboards, the Leopold is my favorite. But there's one thing I dislike about it, and that is the micro-USB cable. I don't think it's wise to use a flimsy connector like that. I would have preferred the plug to be under the keyboard, and have cable routing channels like the ones on the RealForce keyboards. If you look at the way the cable is connected under the keyboard on the 87U, you can see there's enough room for a micro USB plug like the one FC660C uses, and that's what Leopold should have done IMO.

My other two Topres are the RealForce 87U Type-S ergonomic weighted, and 55g uniform weighted.

The Type-S is very quiet--the most quiet keyboard I have. It feels significantly softer to type on due to the weighting, and I think it's good for those who dislike heavy keys, or during times when you're not feeling well (sick, tired, headache, feeling weak, etc). Although it's only the pinky keys that are lighter weight, the overall typing experience feels about 25~30% softer than the 45g FC660C. For people who love tactile keys, it is definitely not tactile enough. Those who lover soft/smooth keys will love it, I think.

The 55g version is about 15~20% more tactile than the 45g version. It's not "night and day" as some people claim, so if you are considering spending your hard-earned money on a 55g because everyone is telling you how it is the best Topre and how it is a "completely different experience" from the 45g, you need to think twice because the difference is not as dramatic as that.

[bowji]

I just posted a humorous rant about 55g vs 45g Topre recently: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=67186

I agree that the Leopold FC660C is a very special keyboard. I love the compact size (very portable), the intuitive Fn layer of the arrow keys, the quality of the keycaps (which I understand is a vast improvement over the earlier version's keycaps). When I type on the FC660C, the keycaps gives off the impression that they're made of some expensive hard-wood instead of plastic. I'm not sure why I get that impression. I don't get that impression when typing on my RealForce 87U keyboards.

Out of my three Topre keyboards, the Leopold is my favorite. But there's one thing I dislike about it, and that is the micro-USB cable. I don't think it's wise to use a flimsy connector like that. I would have preferred the plug to be under the keyboard, and have cable routing channels like the ones on the RealForce keyboards. If you look at the way the cable is connected under the keyboard on the 87U, you can see there's enough room for a micro USB plug like the one FC660C uses, and that's what Leopold should have done IMO.

My other two Topres are the RealForce 87U Type-S ergonomic weighted, and 55g uniform weighted.

The Type-S is very quiet--the most quiet keyboard I have. It feels significantly softer to type on due to the weighting, and I think it's good for those who dislike heavy keys, or during times when you're not feeling well (sick, tired, headache, feeling weak, etc). Although it's only the pinky keys that are lighter weight, the overall typing experience feels about 25~30% softer than the 45g FC660C. For people who love tactile keys, it is definitely not tactile enough. Those who lover soft/smooth keys will love it, I think.

The 55g version is about 15~20% more tactile than the 45g version. It's not "night and day" as some people claim, so if you are considering spending your hard-earned money on a 55g because everyone is telling you how it is the best Topre and how it is a "completely different experience" from the 45g, you need to think twice because the difference is not as dramatic as that.

I havent had the chance to use 55g since the 660c is my first topre board, but the rave about 55g being superior had me thinking. Some claim the 660c is not 45g but inbetween 45g and 55g. Honestly, I feel the weight on the 660c is perfect for me. Coming from light blues, any heavier switches on the topre would have given me a hard time to adjust(feels a bit heavier than blues as is).

Im not sure if the 660c have different models for their usb port but mine came with a mini usb, the same size as my Ducky Shine 3. I cant add much to usb ports since I barely unplug my keyboards, and if I do its usually USB A I disconnect to be cautious not to damage the keyboard itself.

All said, thanks for the write up about 660c comparing with other topres. Hopefully, other people trying to convert to a topre board can have a look at this thread and make an informed decision before their first topre purchase.
(If you are looking for a topre board go with the 660c  )

[Macsmasher]

I just posted a humorous rant about 55g vs 45g Topre recently: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=67186

I agree that the Leopold FC660C is a very special keyboard. I love the compact size (very portable), the intuitive Fn layer of the arrow keys, the quality of the keycaps (which I understand is a vast improvement over the earlier version's keycaps). When I type on the FC660C, the keycaps gives off the impression that they're made of some expensive hard-wood instead of plastic. I'm not sure why I get that impression. I don't get that impression when typing on my RealForce 87U keyboards.

Out of my three Topre keyboards, the Leopold is my favorite. But there's one thing I dislike about it, and that is the micro-USB cable. I don't think it's wise to use a flimsy connector like that. I would have preferred the plug to be under the keyboard, and have cable routing channels like the ones on the RealForce keyboards. If you look at the way the cable is connected under the keyboard on the 87U, you can see there's enough room for a micro USB plug like the one FC660C uses, and that's what Leopold should have done IMO.

My other two Topres are the RealForce 87U Type-S ergonomic weighted, and 55g uniform weighted.

The Type-S is very quiet--the most quiet keyboard I have. It feels significantly softer to type on due to the weighting, and I think it's good for those who dislike heavy keys, or during times when you're not feeling well (sick, tired, headache, feeling weak, etc). Although it's only the pinky keys that are lighter weight, the overall typing experience feels about 25~30% softer than the 45g FC660C. For people who love tactile keys, it is definitely not tactile enough. Those who lover soft/smooth keys will love it, I think.

The 55g version is about 15~20% more tactile than the 45g version. It's not "night and day" as some people claim, so if you are considering spending your hard-earned money on a 55g because everyone is telling you how it is the best Topre and how it is a "completely different experience" from the 45g, you need to think twice because the difference is not as dramatic as that.

I read your referenced thread, in addition to your 'expert' opinions expressed here. While everyone is entitle to their opinion, yours simply isn't accurate. But of course, you're an 'arteest'. You might try taking a break from painting and use a keyboard for 12 hours per day.

There are those who drive to 7-Eleven for beer, and there are those who drive for a living. The former won't notice much difference in their seat. The latter will tell you the seat is everything.

If you work on a keyboard every day, all day, the subtle differences you've so opinionatedly pointed out, become quite important. If the differences aren't that obvious to you, then you are wasting money on Topre boards. Save your money and just buy a nice MX board and you'll be happy.

The humor here isn't that some in the GH community have strong opinions regarding keyboards, which might seem anal to a normal computer user. The real humor here is people who espouse strong opinions about a topic of which they obviously know nothing about.

[bowji]

More

I just posted a humorous rant about 55g vs 45g Topre recently: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=67186

I agree that the Leopold FC660C is a very special keyboard. I love the compact size (very portable), the intuitive Fn layer of the arrow keys, the quality of the keycaps (which I understand is a vast improvement over the earlier version's keycaps). When I type on the FC660C, the keycaps gives off the impression that they're made of some expensive hard-wood instead of plastic. I'm not sure why I get that impression. I don't get that impression when typing on my RealForce 87U keyboards.

Out of my three Topre keyboards, the Leopold is my favorite. But there's one thing I dislike about it, and that is the micro-USB cable. I don't think it's wise to use a flimsy connector like that. I would have preferred the plug to be under the keyboard, and have cable routing channels like the ones on the RealForce keyboards. If you look at the way the cable is connected under the keyboard on the 87U, you can see there's enough room for a micro USB plug like the one FC660C uses, and that's what Leopold should have done IMO.

My other two Topres are the RealForce 87U Type-S ergonomic weighted, and 55g uniform weighted.

The Type-S is very quiet--the most quiet keyboard I have. It feels significantly softer to type on due to the weighting, and I think it's good for those who dislike heavy keys, or during times when you're not feeling well (sick, tired, headache, feeling weak, etc). Although it's only the pinky keys that are lighter weight, the overall typing experience feels about 25~30% softer than the 45g FC660C. For people who love tactile keys, it is definitely not tactile enough. Those who lover soft/smooth keys will love it, I think.

The 55g version is about 15~20% more tactile than the 45g version. It's not "night and day" as some people claim, so if you are considering spending your hard-earned money on a 55g because everyone is telling you how it is the best Topre and how it is a "completely different experience" from the 45g, you need to think twice because the difference is not as dramatic as that.

I read your referenced thread, in addition to your 'expert' opinions expressed here. While everyone is entitle to their opinion, yours simply isn't accurate. But of course, you're an 'arteest'. You might try taking a break from painting and use a keyboard for 12 hours per day.

There are those who drive to 7-Eleven for beer, and there are those who drive for a living. The former won't notice much difference in their seat. The latter will tell you the seat is everything.

If you work on a keyboard every day, all day, the subtle differences you've so opinionatedly pointed out, become quite important. If the differences aren't that obvious to you, then you are wasting money on Topre boards. Save your money and just buy a nice MX board and you'll be happy.

The humor here isn't that some in the GH community have strong opinions regarding keyboards, which might seem anal to a normal computer user. The real humor here is people who espouse strong opinions about a topic of which they obviously know nothing about.

Woah shots fired! nahnahnah scratch that, lets not start an argument. Lunatiques opinion was HIS opinion, Im sure majority of people here are smart enough to read more than one persons opinion before making an informed judgement. Theres no need to be defensive by one persons idea of switch weight when it is such a subjective topic. Different people have different values. Is a piece of plastic as big as your thumbnail worth $200+? yes and no. We put our values where WE want to put them and how WE want to put them.

[Polymer]

The humor here isn't that some in the GH community have strong opinions regarding keyboards, which might seem anal to a normal computer user. The real humor here is people who espouse strong opinions about a topic of which they obviously know nothing about.

I think he's just stating his opinion...Just as lovers of 55g state theirs.  The part that amazes me is people that swear by 55g are so convinced they actually believe it would be the most popular Topre switch if given the volume which is definitely NOT the case...but of course, everyone believes what they believe is the majority...It takes a lot to look at the situation and think you're in the minority..

I personally don't see anything wrong with having a different opinion than someone else..and my preference doesn't need to be your preference or anyone else's...but I don't think we'd be enthusiasts if we didn't have strong opinions about what we like, what we think about X or Y. 

[berserkfan]

The humor here isn't that some in the GH community have strong opinions regarding keyboards, which might seem anal to a normal computer user. The real humor here is people who espouse strong opinions about a topic of which they obviously know nothing about.

I think he's just stating his opinion...Just as lovers of 55g state theirs.  The part that amazes me is people that swear by 55g are so convinced they actually believe it would be the most popular Topre switch if given the volume which is definitely NOT the case...but of course, everyone believes what they believe is the majority...It takes a lot to look at the situation and think you're in the minority..

I personally don't see anything wrong with having a different opinion than someone else..and my preference doesn't need to be your preference or anyone else's...but I don't think we'd be enthusiasts if we didn't have strong opinions about what we like, what we think about X or Y.

Exactly. In any case 55g is by far my least favorite Topre weight. (I still don't really like Topre in general.)

[bowji]

More

The humor here isn't that some in the GH community have strong opinions regarding keyboards, which might seem anal to a normal computer user. The real humor here is people who espouse strong opinions about a topic of which they obviously know nothing about.

I think he's just stating his opinion...Just as lovers of 55g state theirs.  The part that amazes me is people that swear by 55g are so convinced they actually believe it would be the most popular Topre switch if given the volume which is definitely NOT the case...but of course, everyone believes what they believe is the majority...It takes a lot to look at the situation and think you're in the minority..

I personally don't see anything wrong with having a different opinion than someone else..and my preference doesn't need to be your preference or anyone else's...but I don't think we'd be enthusiasts if we didn't have strong opinions about what we like, what we think about X or Y.

Exactly. In any case 55g is by far my least favorite Topre weight. (I still don't really like Topre in general.)

Topre is growing on me, more and more. Different perspective. Different opinion.
No one is wrong here, in fact we are all right for ourselves. We just have to agree to disagree 

[Cafeine]

Although the question wasnt directed to me, I can speak up that the 660c fn layer is very intuitive. My favorite fn feature is the fn+arrow keys, home/end/pageup/pagedown. Its easy enough that I dont have to say which arrows corresponds to which 

Agreed. The question is answered


As you can guess from my previous pic, the 660C is my fav layout. I love the RF 55g (sold the 45g), I really want to love the HHKB (and I think it's the sexiest) but I can't really work on it. :x


If you can try it, even in its MX version (easier to find to try the layout), go for it, it's a very nice board.  <3

[Sniping]

Nice white FC660C!

I think that two-tone keycap set would look amazing with blank keycaps.

[Lunatique]

I read your referenced thread, in addition to your 'expert' opinions expressed here. While everyone is entitle to their opinion, yours simply isn't accurate. But of course, you're an 'arteest'. You might try taking a break from painting and use a keyboard for 12 hours per day.

There are those who drive to 7-Eleven for beer, and there are those who drive for a living. The former won't notice much difference in their seat. The latter will tell you the seat is everything.

If you work on a keyboard every day, all day, the subtle differences you've so opinionatedly pointed out, become quite important. If the differences aren't that obvious to you, then you are wasting money on Topre boards. Save your money and just buy a nice MX board and you'll be happy.

The humor here isn't that some in the GH community have strong opinions regarding keyboards, which might seem anal to a normal computer user. The real humor here is people who espouse strong opinions about a topic of which they obviously know nothing about.

Actually, I probably type more than most of the members here on GH. I write novels, teach online workshops and write critiques for students via forum posts, keep a blog, etc. If I had to guess, I probably average at least several thousands of words a day, and over 10,000 words on the more productive days. The main reason I even delve into the rabbit hole of mechanical keyboards was because I needed a better typing experience when writing my novels.

I never claimed to be an expert at anything. I have a naturally didactic tone simply because I do a lot of teaching and write critiques for students all day--it rubs off on other areas of my life. I don't particularly like that about myself, and I know I have that tendency. I tried to take the edge off what I wrote in that thread by using humor, but humor is a subjective thing too, so...

[spiceBar]

I just posted a humorous rant about 55g vs 45g Topre recently: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=67186

I agree that the Leopold FC660C is a very special keyboard. I love the compact size (very portable), the intuitive Fn layer of the arrow keys, the quality of the keycaps (which I understand is a vast improvement over the earlier version's keycaps). When I type on the FC660C, the keycaps gives off the impression that they're made of some expensive hard-wood instead of plastic. I'm not sure why I get that impression. I don't get that impression when typing on my RealForce 87U keyboards.

Out of my three Topre keyboards, the Leopold is my favorite. But there's one thing I dislike about it, and that is the micro-USB cable. I don't think it's wise to use a flimsy connector like that. I would have preferred the plug to be under the keyboard, and have cable routing channels like the ones on the RealForce keyboards. If you look at the way the cable is connected under the keyboard on the 87U, you can see there's enough room for a micro USB plug like the one FC660C uses, and that's what Leopold should have done IMO.

My other two Topres are the RealForce 87U Type-S ergonomic weighted, and 55g uniform weighted.

The Type-S is very quiet--the most quiet keyboard I have. It feels significantly softer to type on due to the weighting, and I think it's good for those who dislike heavy keys, or during times when you're not feeling well (sick, tired, headache, feeling weak, etc). Although it's only the pinky keys that are lighter weight, the overall typing experience feels about 25~30% softer than the 45g FC660C. For people who love tactile keys, it is definitely not tactile enough. Those who lover soft/smooth keys will love it, I think.

The 55g version is about 15~20% more tactile than the 45g version. It's not "night and day" as some people claim, so if you are considering spending your hard-earned money on a 55g because everyone is telling you how it is the best Topre and how it is a "completely different experience" from the 45g, you need to think twice because the difference is not as dramatic as that.

I read your referenced thread, in addition to your 'expert' opinions expressed here. While everyone is entitle to their opinion, yours simply isn't accurate. But of course, you're an 'arteest'. You might try taking a break from painting and use a keyboard for 12 hours per day.

There are those who drive to 7-Eleven for beer, and there are those who drive for a living. The former won't notice much difference in their seat. The latter will tell you the seat is everything.

If you work on a keyboard every day, all day, the subtle differences you've so opinionatedly pointed out, become quite important. If the differences aren't that obvious to you, then you are wasting money on Topre boards. Save your money and just buy a nice MX board and you'll be happy.

The humor here isn't that some in the GH community have strong opinions regarding keyboards, which might seem anal to a normal computer user. The real humor here is people who espouse strong opinions about a topic of which they obviously know nothing about.

I have read his post and cannot tell what is inaccurate.

He has wise words for us keyboard enthusiasts and I'm surprised by your animosity.

[Macsmasher]

Yeah, I apologize to everybody, especially Lunatique. I remotely worked until 4am on a troublesome DB and wasn't in the best of moods. It was one of those 14 hour days on a keyboard. I should've just taken a Midol, gone to bed and read the forum in the morning.   

[sorijealut]

Yeah, I apologize to everybody, especially Lunatique. I remotely worked until 4am on a troublesome DB and wasn't in the best of moods. It was one of those 14 hour days on a keyboard. I should've just taken a Midol, gone to bed and read the forum in the morning.   

lol  good on ya to apologize. You didn't seem like the type (that would be mean).

[Lunatique]

Yeah, I apologize to everybody, especially Lunatique. I remotely worked until 4am on a troublesome DB and wasn't in the best of moods. It was one of those 14 hour days on a keyboard. I should've just taken a Midol, gone to bed and read the forum in the morning.   

It's okay, man. I've had those days too where I lost my temper and got in the faces of people who didn't deserve it. I felt bad every single time, and as I got older, I forced myself to step on the brakes and take a deep breath whenever I felt like I was about to unload on somebody. Life never gets any better when we lose control--only worse, and I had to learn that the hard way.

Let's hug it out, eh? *Big bear hug*

I hope your work will be less troublesome in 2015, with less need of Midol. I sure as hell need an easier year in 2015. 2014 got pretty brutal towards the end for me in terms of work, so I totally understand.