Are ALPS similar enough to Cherry MX to skip?

[RoflCopter4]

AEK, m0116, Wang boards including the 724, and AT101W are all models that come to mind off the top of my head. There are more which have PBT caps. Which boards do you have?

If you meant usable PBT caps for a normal ANSI layout, that'd be different and your statement would be more correct.

Hold on there, the AT101W has PBT caps? You sure? I just thought they were particularly nice ABS caps?

[nubbinator]

Depends on the model.  Some AT101 are PBT, some are ABS.

[RoflCopter4]

I kind of doubt mine is. In fact, considering I somehow lost one of the keycaps (I popped it off one day and it went flying somewhere; I spent probably 6 solid hours tearing apart the room looking for it and just cannot find it) I hope mine isn't PBT.

[jacobolus]

The very earliest Dell AT101 keyboards, from like 1992–1993 were made by Alps, just like the SGI AT101, etc., and used Alps-made dyesubs and salmon Alps switches. Later AT101 keyboards and then the AT101W use black Alps switches and pad printed ABS keycaps.

[CPTBadAss]

Depends on the model.  Some AT101 are PBT, some are ABS.

Ah I see. All the ones I've seen are PBT.

[Dihedral]

Regarding Matias "Alps-inspired" switches, although I like them both, I prefer the Matias Click switch over the Matias Quiet switch. I like the aural feedback, and the feel of the keystroke seems better overall in the Click switch. In addition, I prefer the sound and feel of the Matias Click switches in my KBP V60 over the Matias Mini Tactile Pro keyboard. This preference might have something to do with the different case materials and different keycaps. The caps on my KBP V60-MTS-C include Matias black blanks for the mods and spacebar, and dye-sub PBT from an IBM 5140 for the alphanumeric keys.

(Attachment Link)

Those keycaps are really, really nice. Look like those new vortex ones, but cooler.

[RoflCopter4]

My AT101W has what are clearly laser etched keycaps.

[jeffsui]

I just gota say I love me some quiet pro switches...  they are really quite nice.

[fohat.digs]

Ah I see. All the ones I've seen are PBT.

Seriously? You are extremely lucky.

I have probably had a dozen AT101/AT101Ws and I doubt that more than 2 or 3 of them were PBT, and none of the AT101Ws.

I have even bought "old logo" Dell AT101s that had ABS caps.

[minh278]

I feel white alps are unique enough to try. The top actuation really gives you a feeling unlike any cherry mx(in my opinion), i would try to find a cheap second hand one though.

[chyros]

Alps switches are totally different from Cherry switches. Yes, they both work by electrical contact and they both have a spring and plunger, but that's about it.

Alps switches are much more tactile and -IMO- cleaner-feeling than Cherries. Cherries have a rather "sawtoothy" feel to them and personally I can barely notice any tactility on them. And the clicky sound on clicky Cherries is ridiculous. Alps switches have a much more singular bump, stronger tactility, cleaner keyfeel and a MUCH better clicky sound in the case of clicky Alps. They're also much stiffer than Cherry switches though, in general.

Not all Alps switches might suit you as they made a huge variety, though (but that also means there's almost certainly at least one you WILL like). Personally I've found the ivory and white switches really nice, and the blue switch is supposed to be extremely good (but very expensive to get). If you can get hold of a white Alps board it's probably a good start and among the more representative of the Alps switches - it's also one of the easiest to get hold of.

[Dihedral]

from my experiance of matias vs cherry the moat glaring difference is the actuation point of the matiases; they feel almost like membranes in that they dont have any travel before the tactile bump. Matiases feel decicidly snappier than cherrys, which is a very noticrable charictaristic but one you cant quite explain in words or.even put your finger on.

[Den441]

from my experiance of matias vs cherry the moat glaring difference is the actuation point of the matiases; they feel almost like membranes in that they dont have any travel before the tactile bump. Matiases feel decicidly snappier than cherrys, which is a very noticrable charictaristic but one you cant quite explain in words or.even put your finger on.

I noticed that about the Matias swtiches as well. Pretty much 0 travel before the bump/click. Are all ALPS switches like this? How does the Matias switch compare with other ALPS clicky switches? I also feel that my cherry linear switches are smoother than the Matias linear. I'm still curious as to how the old ALPS green linear feels though because I've heard many say that is the smoothest linear switch ever made.

[jacobolus]

from my experiance of matias vs cherry the moat glaring difference is the actuation point of the matiases; they feel almost like membranes in that they dont have any travel before the tactile bump.

I noticed that about the Matias swtiches as well. Pretty much 0 travel before the bump/click. Are all ALPS switches like this?

What do you folks mean by “no travel before the bump/click”? The tactile point in Matias switches is about 1.5mm into the stroke, out of a total of like 3.8mm. So ~40% of the stroke happens before the force drops.

This is less than cherry switches, where what pitiful tactile feeling there is happens at about 2mm (50%) into a 4mm stroke. And it’s also less than IBM Model M/F switches, where the tactile point is ~3mm into a ~4.2mm stroke.

I also feel that my cherry linear switches are smoother than the Matias linear. I'm still curious as to how the old ALPS green linear feels though because I've heard many say that is the smoothest linear switch ever made.

When did you try Matias linear switches? As far as I know they’re still a brand new product that no one has yet gotten in a shipped keyboard. There were a handful of loose switches at the MassDrop office at the last bay area keyboard meetup, but they weren’t in a keyboard, so it’s hard to judge conclusively, but I definitely thought they were smoother than current NIB MX red or black switches. (I didn’t have any 80s/early 90s MX black switches at the meetup to compare directly, so I’m not sure about those.)

Green Alps switches are nice linear switches, but definitely not the smoothest ever made.

All the best linear switches are from the 1960s/70s (Honeywell/Micro Switch, Fujitsu, ITW, “vintage” SMK, “complicated” Futaba, RAFI, ...) nicer than any of the cheap consumer switches from >1980 (like Alps SKCM, Cherry MX, Hi-Tek “space invaders”, etc.). HaaTa’s favorite is the Alps magnetic reed switch.
http://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_Magnetic_Reed
https://www.flickr.com/photos/triplehaata/sets/72157635545864692/

[ideus]

ALPS are not similar to Cherry switches. However, to describe the differences in terms of resistance, actuation point cannot predict if you would like them over Cherry. I would encourage you to try them by yourself.


Have you observed that we, as a community, tend to prefer the complex explanations to the simple ones, on everything related with keyboards? We tend to give more weight to charts and detailed and elaborated explanations on any aspect of keyboards. That is understandable as we are keyboard aficionados and that fueled this board and our passion for this hobby. The problem with that is all this verbose cannot replace the actual experience, so until you try something by yourself you will not know if such thing would be for you or not.

[Dihedral]

from my experiance of matias vs cherry the moat glaring difference is the actuation point of the matiases; they feel almost like membranes in that they dont have any travel before the tactile bump.

I noticed that about the Matias swtiches as well. Pretty much 0 travel before the bump/click. Are all ALPS switches like this?

What do you folks mean by “no travel before the bump/click”? The tactile point in Matias switches is about 1.5mm into the stroke, out of a total of like 3.8mm. So ~40% of the stroke happens before the force drops.

This is less than cherry switches, where what pitiful tactile feeling there is happens at about 2mm (50%) into a 4mm stroke. And it’s also less than IBM Model M/F switches, where the tactile point is ~3mm into a ~4.2mm stroke.

I also feel that my cherry linear switches are smoother than the Matias linear. I'm still curious as to how the old ALPS green linear feels though because I've heard many say that is the smoothest linear switch ever made.

When did you try Matias linear switches? As far as I know they’re still a brand new product that no one has yet gotten in a shipped keyboard. There were a handful of loose switches at the MassDrop office at the last bay area keyboard meetup, but they weren’t in a keyboard, so it’s hard to judge conclusively, but I definitely thought they were smoother than current NIB MX red or black switches. (I didn’t have any 80s/early 90s MX black switches at the meetup to compare directly, so I’m not sure about those.)

Green Alps switches are nice linear switches, but definitely not the smoothest ever made.

All the best linear switches are from the 1960s/70s (Honeywell/Micro Switch, Fujitsu, ITW, “vintage” SMK, “complicated” Futaba, RAFI, ...) nicer than any of the cheap consumer switches from >1980 (like Alps SKCM, Cherry MX, Hi-Tek “space invaders”, etc.). HaaTa’s favorite is the Alps magnetic reed switch.
http://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_Magnetic_Reed
https://www.flickr.com/photos/triplehaata/sets/72157635545864692/

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There is not literally no gap to the start of the bump, but something about the weight of the switch and the force curve entering the bump makes it feel like a much less pronounced amount of travel than in cherry switches. For sure it's an interesting feeling in a single switch, and I'm in two minds as to whether I'd like that feeling in an actual keyboard.