Isn't it about time...

[Rajagra]

Isn't it about time they stopped this nonsense of having different physical keyboard layouts for different parts of the world?

Why don't they combine all the best bits from the different types into a universal standard? They should move some of the less useful keys while they are at it.

I think it would look something like this:



There are some keys that aren't needed outside of the far East, but they can be reprogrammed, or used as modifier keys in AutoHotkey etc.

Obviously the labelling would be different for each market, but having a common physical layout and scan codes would be so great.

[timw4mail]

I like the ANSI layout...and really, the only change I really would like to see done to keyboard layouts is the moving of the caps lock key, and the control key to it's former place.

The problem with a 'universal' layout is that there are just enough things different in different parts of the world that it wouldn't work very well. The average typist doesn't care about how the keys are laid out...except that the keys do what they say, and only what they say.

[ch_123]

I like the Topre layout with 86/103 keys, and letting the user decide where Caps and Control should be. The only change I'd make to the ANSI layout is to make what Linux calls 'US International with Alt-Gr dead keys' standard. I also kinda like the idea of backspace going where Caps Lock usually is, but I think that would be too drastic of a change for me.

[timw4mail]

I like the Topre layout with 86/103 keys, and letting the user decide where Caps and Control should be. The only change I'd make to the ANSI layout is to make what Linux calls 'US International with Alt-Gr dead keys' standard. I also kinda like the idea of backspace going where Caps Lock usually is, but I think that would be too drastic of a change for me.

What is an "Alt-Gr" key anyway?

[o2dazone]

used in making grave characters

[ch_123]

What is an "Alt-Gr" key anyway?

ALTernate GRaphic, used for making accent aigues.

used in making grave characters

Im pretty sure the ` key becomes a dead key and that's used for creating grave characters. A similar arrangement is used on the Irish (as opposed to UK) layout.

[Rajagra]

I like the ANSI layout...and really, the only change I really would like to see done to keyboard layouts is the moving of the caps lock key, and the control key to it's former place.

Key features of the ANSI layout:

• Horizontal large Enter key;
• Backslash key above Enter;
• Wide Backspace key.

Useful features of the European layout:

• Extra key (used for "\" in UK)

Benefit of Japanese layout:

• Several extra keys, including the European extra key.

My suggested layout has all of these.

In addition:

• Both Shift keys in easy reach of little finger;
• Shift, Ctrl and Alt keys grouped together for when you need to do combinations of them;
• Windows/command keys still on modifier row, but at least accessible position, reflecting the fact that they don't (ever?) need to be used in combination with other modifiers, and they interrupt workflow if hit accidentally;
• Shift, Ctrl, Alt and Windows keys kept in a logical, symmetrical layout;
• Menu key kept next to a Windows key but moved to distant point reflecting rarity of use.

Note that the left shift could be kept double width if the "`~" key is put where the Esc key normally is.

I think this would be a huge improvement of layout for the majority of people.

[ch_123]

Does anyone who uses the ANSI layout actually miss those extra keys? I know I don't. There's a lot to be said for a clean and efficient design. It seems to me that the ISO has the extra key either to accomodate some symbols of questionable usefulness, or commonly used foreign letters that are useful for people in those countries, but are better dealt with by dead keys or alt gr for English speakers.

Did you know the UK (and Ireland by extension as we copy everything the Brits do) is the only English speaking country that use the ISO keyboard layout? I think it was probably the result of some standardization politics as opposed to any meaningful analysis of what the most useful layout would be.

[cmr]

backspace, backslash, and enter must follow the ANSI US layout or i won't type on it. that thing you have in the initial post wouldn't even make it as far as getting plugged in to one of my computers.

[microsoft windows]

What I do not really like about that lay-out is the fact that the space-bar key is just too small. I usually like to press it on the edge, which is also missing in newer Windows-keys layouts.

Why not just put in an extra modifier key where the CapsLock key is on foreign keyboards and move the Capslock key somehwere else? There's an idea...

[Rajagra]

backspace, backslash, and enter must follow the ANSI US layout or i won't type on it. that thing you have in the initial post wouldn't even make it as far as getting plugged in to one of my computers.

You like Caps Lock that much?

I don't want to accuse you of being blinkered, but if you tried AutoHotkey or Keytweak for placing Backspace where CapsLock normally is for a day or two, you'd soon realise just how appalling the top-right is as a position for Backspace.

Of course if you use Ctrl more than Backspace then that's the key that you'd prefer there instead.

[patrickgeekhack]

I like the Topre layout with 86/103 keys, and letting the user decide where Caps and Control should be. The only change I'd make to the ANSI layout is to make what Linux calls 'US International with Alt-Gr dead keys' standard. I also kinda like the idea of backspace going where Caps Lock usually is, but I think that would be too drastic of a change for me.

US International is available on Windows as well. I've been using it for 13 years now.

Personally, I have not problem with the Caps being where it is. I tried to switch Caps lock and Ctrl keys (through software) once and I was in for a frustrating experience.

[ch_123]

US International is available on Windows as well. I've been using it for 13 years now.

Personally, I have not problem with the Caps being where it is. I tried to switch Caps lock and Ctrl keys (through software) once and I was in for a frustrating experience.

No, Windows has US-Int with regular dead keys, which is highly irriating, because, for example, it turns the ' and " keys into dead keys, meaning that if you want to use one of those characters (which I do alot) you have to type them and then press space. It's one of those things that I could in theory adjust to, but would rather not.

[patrickgeekhack]

No, Windows has US-Int with regular dead keys, which is highly irriating, because, for example, it turns the ' and " keys into dead keys, meaning that if you want to use one of those characters (which I do alot) you have to type them and then press space. It's one of those things that I could in theory adjust to, but would rather not.

I see. This is how I like it. I will automatically press spacebar after ' whenever I need one. It can be frustrating for me whenever I have to work on a computer that does not have the layout set up this way. Old habits die hard I guess.

[timw4mail]

Obviously we all have different preferences about where we should have our modifier keys...

I really don't like the idea of having a backspace where CapsLock is...I think control works better there, especially for games...

As I stated, I'd rather have the position of the CapsLock and Control keys be the most major difference in layout.

Now I'm going to have to figure out my ideal layout...

[JBert]

I see no colemak, what a pity.

[timw4mail]

By the way, what did you use to make that layout?

[huha]

I don't like your proposed layout. Return just needs to be large.
I'd suggest a modified ISO layout with the left shift key enlarged and the key next to the left shift key (i.e. < on German keyboards) moved to the left of the right shift key, which, in turn, has to shrink.
Basically, a Japanese layout without Japanese modifier keys and large backspace.

-huha

[Rajagra]

By the way, what did you use to make that layout?

Gimp. But I started with US/UK/Japan templates from Wikipedia, put them in a layer each and masked parts out. Then a final layer on top where I pasted the most non-standard parts.

I see no colemak, what a pity.

I see no Colemak on the keyboard I am using right now, but it doesn't stop me using Colemak. :-)

[Bollwerk]

Well, while using nearly only german layouts with ä, ö, ü and some other changes, I have a Lycosa US-layout. Ok. The missing keys mentioned above is a problem, despite not being used very often. But overall, I like the ANSI-Layout more... with some changes because of my personal taste.

I think, most of the people would start whining if there would come some changes (in fact it is a social problem of many people... whoa... changes... not before I die^^).
This Forum has lots of skilled writers but look out of the window.
Most of my collegues aren't able to write properly even though they work with their Keyboards every day.
Then there are those casual writers who only write a few words for ebay or facebook.^^

Changing things which everyone know well is always a problem of flexibility of the people.

I think, I wouldn't miss Caps-Lock. The opposite: I really hate this key.
Scroll Lock is useful for Teamspeak push to talk. xD

For work, since I am a technical draftsman, i would like to have a backspacekey like on the G80-3700 or the G84-4700. I really like the idea of using a keyboard without a Num-Cluster and combine it with some of these Keypads instead.