Das Keyboard vs IBM M Model keyboard

[afton]

Greetings all    Finding this forum proves my hypothesis that there's always an specific interest group to cater to our whimsical needs.

I've been using MS Natural Ergo 4000 keyboard which layout I liked,
but the tactile feedback is disappointing.

I've read some comparisons re: subject above, and currently I have
the Das Keyboard which feels great, but hey as a never satisfied
customer we always want the best don't we?

I'm wondering whether you guys have tried both? Which one do you prefer?
The other question is, on a Mac, how do you get push the Command and Fn keys on an M Model?

edit:
to the webmaster: kudos to you, I really liked the color scheme!
In fact this is the best vBulletin color scheme ever.
Usually white on black is hard to read but somehow this works really well.

[ch_123]

Most Mac users around here remap some unused key to command. I never knew their desktop keys had Fn... I'm sure someone who uses Macs will be able to answer your question.

As for the Das vs the M - this really depends on what it is you don't like about the Das... Is it the keyboard itself, or is it the feel of the switches?

[afton]

As for the Das vs the M - this really depends on what it is you don't like about the Das... Is it the keyboard itself, or is it the feel of the switches?

I don't actually dislike Das  But I feel for a $100+ keyboard, the switches
feel a bit flakey, but it might be just me as I haven't used a mechanical
switch keyboard for a loong time I've forgotten it.

I might just try get a cheap M model off eBay so I can compare it myself?

The other thing is, being quite a successful company that they are (Das),
I wonder why don't they release the ergo version?

[wellington1869]

you can usually get decent M's off ebay for 30 bucks shipped if you're in the US. Best thing to do would be to get both and see for yourself cuz tastes are so personal and specific. You can alway sell off the board you dont want, both of those would be easy to sell. GH has a marketplace forum too.

The two boards are quite different, M's being much heavier and chunkier. Modern users find it too heavy but a lot of us find the blue cherry too light. So it really comes down to your preferences; whats more, you might want to keep both and switch off between them from time to time

[cmr]

i have both. i prefer the feel of the das's cherry switches but i can go faster on the model Ms. for what it's worth the fastest i ever typed was on an AT-101W.

actually, nevermind, i just went back and beat it by 1 wpm with the M.

i've never found a way i liked to map a Win (for you, Cmd) key on linux,for the model M, but that's going to depend on your preferences and how often you push it. i don't use macs much so i don't know how much mileage you folks get out of the cmd key. if you want a buckling spring keyboard with the extra keys you can get one from unicomp. they are very similar to model Ms.

as a mac user you might also want to check out a couple of alps switch-based keyboards, the apple extended keyboard ii (the ADB adapter will run you about $40), or a matias tactile pro (which is unfortunately in between models right now). a coworker of mine uses these models for practically all of his typing. they have a proper mac layout.

[wellington1869]

thats funny my fastest is on BS switches too (my endurapro).  The topre came close but I just beat it again.

[ch_123]

I don't actually dislike Das  But I feel for a $100+ keyboard, the switches
feel a bit flakey, but it might be just me as I haven't used a mechanical
switch keyboard for a loong time I've forgotten it.

I might just try get a cheap M model off eBay so I can compare it myself?

The other thing is, being quite a successful company that they are (Das),
I wonder why don't they release the ergo version?

Yeah, if you don't really like the switches in the Das, the Model M would be a good idea - they're really solid and definite. While you can get one for cheap one off eBay, as you are a Mac user, you may be better off considering a Unicomp Customizer - they are native USB, which saves you playing around with potentially unreliable PS/2 adaptors, and they also have Windows keys which are ideal for remapping into Command keys.

Link.

As for Ergo keyboards, they've kinda gone out of fashion amongst mechanical keyboard makers. I've read somewhere that this general lack of widespread adoption of split keyboard designs is down to research that showed that there are much more important factors affecting things like RSI, such as your seating position and the level of the keyboard, etc. Alot of people around here had quite serious RSI which subsided after they started using mechanical keyboards, allowing them to use keyboards with conventional layouts. This is a good thing - as really popular ergo mechanical boards such as the IBM M15 can sell for $400 and up on eBay (nope, that's not a typo)

for what it's worth the fastest i ever typed was on an AT-101W.

I can't type fast at all on those things, really goes to show that these things vary from person to person and typing style to typing style.

[afton]

The funny, or cynical thing is you now got some toned ergo boards left such as those from MS, but that's just marketing and such a cowardly compromise is of no use whatsoever when it comes to RSI.

Are you saying that the ergo layout won't reduce RSI?

[BucklingSpring]

I don't actually dislike Das  But I feel for a $100+ keyboard, the switches
feel a bit flakey

I own M both in clicker and rubber dome version and also have a DAS III in my collection.

As the folks already said: two very different animals.

I tend to agree for the flaky DAS keys, but it is bearable. (Try a TVS GOLD for ultimate flakiness feel… Remind me to tell the anecdote about how I got a TVS GOLD and the face I did when I opened the box)

The DAS has short travel keys requiring very little pressure to register the key. The M keys have more travel and require much more pressure to register the key.

In short: DAS = Light touch and M = Solid punch

Personally, I prefer the M (Hand down)

I’m currently typing this reply with my new addition: A Tactile Deck Legend.
I also prefer the Tactile feel of the Deck over the DAS
Too bad the Deck doesn’t “click”

[ch_123]

Well, do you have RSI, and if so, does using the MS keyboard help it?

(Try a TVS GOLD for ultimate flakiness feel… Remind me to tell the anecdote about how I got a TVS GOLD and the face I did when I opened the box)

I want to hear this story... Those things have linear Cherrys don't they?

[BucklingSpring]

I want to hear this story... Those things have linear Cherrys don't they?

Nope, same Cherry "clicky tactile" as the DAS.

As soon as I press send for this, I'll start a new thread -> The day I got my TVS Gold.

[afton]

Well, do you have RSI, and if so, does using the MS keyboard help it?

I haven't been officially diagnosed by a doctor, but I do feel pain in my
wrist and fingers after extended time using keyboards and mouse.

By changing my standard cheapo mouse to Evoluent VerticalMouse improves the condition and using an ergonomical keyboard layout do improve
my comfort in typing.

[afton]

I think I have a Das 3 since the model no at the bottom says "DASK3".

Is Das 2 better than Das 3?

[ch_123]

Ehm, n00b here, I didn't know there's a Das 1,2,3,4?
How do I know which one do I have?

Ah! At the bottom of my Das, it says "Model No: DASK3", so I suppose I have a Das 3?
Is Das 2 better?

Yeah, before going back to Ergo stuff -

Das 1: Rebranded rubber-dome Keytronic board.
Das 2: Rebranded Cherry G80 with Blue Cherry switches.
Das 3: Their own design, Blue Cherrys.
Das 4: Unknown, but they are releasing a new design this year.

[wellington1869]

Yeah, before going back to Ergo stuff -

Das 1: Rebranded rubber-dome Keytronic board.
Das 2: Rebranded Cherry G80 with Blue Cherry switches.
Das 3: Their own design, Blue Cherrys.
Das 4: Unknown, but they are releasing a new design this year.

one of those had weighted keys...

[ch_123]

The Das 1. The Keytronic board it was based on had them too. There was a thread about them recently.

[itlnstln]

If you want to try a mechanical ergo 'board, the Northgate Evolution is very nice.  You can still find them on Northgate-keyboard-repair.com.  Datadesk might still be producing their Smartboard as well.  Both are Alps-based 'boards.

[microsoft windows]

Personally, I'd recommend the Model M for a high-performance and inexpensive keyboard. It's not hard to find one in the computer trash and they'll last virtually forever.

And, if you're lucky, you can find them with integrated trackballs.