This is how VP of Matias ranks tactile feel of their switches against Cherry MX

[Lunatique]

I just got a nice reply from Steve McGowan, the vice president of Matias, regarding a detailed question I asked about how Matias's switches rank with Cherry MX in terms of tactile feel, with definable rating numbers. This was his reply:

Hi Robert,

The help desk forwarded your question to me for further assistance regarding
comparison to Cherry MX switches.

>How would you rate the Tactile Pro's and the Quiet Pro's switches' tactile
>feel against the Cherry MX's more tactile switch colors (green, blue,
>clear, white, brown)? Please use a rating such as (x% more/less, or 1 to
> 10 rating).

I've personally used Cherry MX blue and brown, but not the others, so I can
only comment on them. This is my personal opinion, since tactile feeling is
somewhat subjective.

Order from Most Tactile to Least Tactile:

1. Matias Click Switch (found in Matias Tactile Pro Keyboard for Mac, and
the Matias Tactile Pro Keyboard for PC (being announced at CES in a few
weeks), and the Matias Mini Tactile Pro Keyboard for Mac)
2. Cherry Blue
3. Matias Quiet-Click Switch (found in Matias Quiet Pro Keyboard for Mac,
Matias Quiet Pro Keyboard for PC, Matias Mini Quiet Pro Keyboard for PC,
Matias Laptop Pro Keyboard for Mac, Matias Secure Pro Keyboard for PC)
4. Cherry Brown

In my opinion, the Matias Click Switch is 30% more "tactile" than Cherry
Blue. Cherry Blue is 5% more "tactile" than Matias Quiet-Click Switch.
Matias Quiet-Click Switch is 25% more "tactile" than Cherry Brown.

Best Regards,
Steve

For those of you who are trying to decide which switch to choose for your tactile addiction (like me), I hope this has helped you as it did me.

And feel free to post your own impressions of tactile ranking with percentage numbers, which I feel is a much more helpful description than simply using adjectives like "a little," "much more," "similar," etc. In fact I feel we need to adopt some kind of system of ranking/describing with actual numeric rating (such as percentage or points). Even if there's a bit of subjectivity involved, I think the collective data will balance out quite well. We could use point system of 0-10 with decimal included if necessary, or a 0-100 system. And in cases where there's not enough experience with various switches to rate them accurately, use the percentage system like Steve did, for relative comparison.

[Ngt]

Good job! I'm not interested in Matias switch ATM but i'm sure it should help people. I wish they'd be more comparison for other clicky/tactile switch.

[Data]

That's cool that he responded like that.  The guys at Matias seem to be super cool.

I'd almost caution against subjective tactility rankings, though I understand "feel" is a very personal (and therefore subjective) thing.  We do have spring force ratings and many switches (Cherry in particular) do have published force curves across the motion of the tactile bump.  If you want to get right down to it, that's where you're going to find the bulk of your data.  Perhaps it would be best (most fair?) to rank them against this repeatable, measurable data?

[Oobly]

Seems to me he's feeling the tactility with his ears rather than his fingers.

I haven't used the Matias Alps variants, but I would rate Blues as only about 5% more tactile than Browns if there's any actual difference at all. They have the same size tactile bump on the stem and the same springs.

[johndavis33]

I'd be really interested in hearing how he feels about the heavier cherry switches, like clears and greens. I can never really feel any tactility in blues or browns, only in the heavier switches.

[Lunatique]

I just sent him another email asking about buckling spring and Topre 45 and 55.

That's cool that he responded like that.  The guys at Matias seem to be super cool.

I'd almost caution against subjective tactility rankings, though I understand "feel" is a very personal (and therefore subjective) thing.  We do have spring force ratings and many switches (Cherry in particular) do have published force curves across the motion of the tactile bump.  If you want to get right down to it, that's where you're going to find the bulk of your data.  Perhaps it would be best (most fair?) to rank them against this repeatable, measurable data?

That's cool that he responded like that.  The guys at Matias seem to be super cool.

I'd almost caution against subjective tactility rankings, though I understand "feel" is a very personal (and therefore subjective) thing.  We do have spring force ratings and many switches (Cherry in particular) do have published force curves across the motion of the tactile bump.  If you want to get right down to it, that's where you're going to find the bulk of your data.  Perhaps it would be best (most fair?) to rank them against this repeatable, measurable data?

Do you have a link to the data/graph? Are all major switch types/colors/weights covered?

[Data]

I just sent him another email asking about buckling spring and Topre 45 and 55.

That's cool that he responded like that.  The guys at Matias seem to be super cool.

I'd almost caution against subjective tactility rankings, though I understand "feel" is a very personal (and therefore subjective) thing.  We do have spring force ratings and many switches (Cherry in particular) do have published force curves across the motion of the tactile bump.  If you want to get right down to it, that's where you're going to find the bulk of your data.  Perhaps it would be best (most fair?) to rank them against this repeatable, measurable data?

Do you have a link to the data/graph? Are all major switch types/colors/weights covered?

WASD has a few of them in their Mech guide here:
http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/mechanical-keyboard-guide

The graphs are from Cherry but I'm having trouble locating an official Cherry source on the web.

Edit: If you download the MX brochure from Cherry, the force diagrams are on page 2 (of 2).
http://www.cherrycorp.com/english/switches/pdf/mx_cat.pdf

Edit 2: Kailh has similar diagrams at the bottom of this page:
http://www.kailh.com/en/products.asp?Categoryid=113

[Lunatique]

I just sent him another email asking about buckling spring and Topre 45 and 55.

That's cool that he responded like that.  The guys at Matias seem to be super cool.

I'd almost caution against subjective tactility rankings, though I understand "feel" is a very personal (and therefore subjective) thing.  We do have spring force ratings and many switches (Cherry in particular) do have published force curves across the motion of the tactile bump.  If you want to get right down to it, that's where you're going to find the bulk of your data.  Perhaps it would be best (most fair?) to rank them against this repeatable, measurable data?

Do you have a link to the data/graph? Are all major switch types/colors/weights covered?

WASD has a few of them in their Mech guide here:
http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/mechanical-keyboard-guide

The graphs are from Cherry but I'm having trouble locating an official Cherry source on the web.

Edit: If you download the MX brochure from Cherry, the force diagrams are on page 2 (of 2).
http://www.cherrycorp.com/english/switches/pdf/mx_cat.pdf

Edit 2: Kailh has similar diagrams at the bottom of this page:
http://www.kailh.com/en/products.asp?Categoryid=113

Too bad it's only for the Cherry type switches. I was hoping for a chart/graph that shows all the major switch types and their variations.

[Lunatique]

His reply regarding BS and Topre:

The Matias Click Switch (used in the Tactile Pro Keyboard) is the most tactile switch currently on the market, to the best of my knowledge.
 
In my opinion, I would say the Tactile Pro Keyboard would be 15% more tactile than a buckled spring (Unicomp) and 35% more tactile than Topre.

[Data]

I just sent him another email asking about buckling spring and Topre 45 and 55.

That's cool that he responded like that.  The guys at Matias seem to be super cool.

I'd almost caution against subjective tactility rankings, though I understand "feel" is a very personal (and therefore subjective) thing.  We do have spring force ratings and many switches (Cherry in particular) do have published force curves across the motion of the tactile bump.  If you want to get right down to it, that's where you're going to find the bulk of your data.  Perhaps it would be best (most fair?) to rank them against this repeatable, measurable data?

Do you have a link to the data/graph? Are all major switch types/colors/weights covered?

WASD has a few of them in their Mech guide here:
http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/mechanical-keyboard-guide

The graphs are from Cherry but I'm having trouble locating an official Cherry source on the web.

Edit: If you download the MX brochure from Cherry, the force diagrams are on page 2 (of 2).
http://www.cherrycorp.com/english/switches/pdf/mx_cat.pdf

Edit 2: Kailh has similar diagrams at the bottom of this page:
http://www.kailh.com/en/products.asp?Categoryid=113

Too bad it's only for the Cherry type switches. I was hoping for a chart/graph that shows all the major switch types and their variations.

Well no, I don't think the data has ever been compiled like that.  That was kinda what I was suggesting you might do, if you were interested in comparisons of a more objective nature.

[jacobolus]

Seems to me he's feeling the tactility with his ears rather than his fingers.

I haven't used the Matias Alps variants, but I would rate Blues as only about 5% more tactile than Browns if there's any actual difference at all. They have the same size tactile bump on the stem and the same springs.

Yep. That’s right. But the sound is actually pretty important to subjective experience. The amount of tactile feedback between quiet/clicky Matias switches is about the same, but subjectively the seem pretty different, based mostly on the different sound.

[Oobly]

Alps force diagram (the Matias are probably something like the Cream, White or Black on this diagram):


Buckling spring force diagram:


Topre force diagram:

[berserkfan]

Having tried Matias before I am not convinced that their ratings are entirely objective... I think there is some self-interest also!

[JackMills]

Having tried Matias before I am not convinced that their ratings are entirely objective... I think there is some self-interest also!

I think this will be correct as well, but still it's cool he tried to answer the question. I find such a feedback, even if this is a quite subjective topic, very interesting.
I have my clears that I really like, but ordered an Infinity with Matias Quiet because I wanted to try those out, but lately I'm wondering if I made the right choice.
The force graphs, combined with the explanation about sound influencing the experience and his rating the Quiet above the brown (and if we can say that clears are a bit more tactile than brown), than I would say that I am a bit more confident that I will appreciate the Matias Quiet switch.

But still, trying is the best way to compare.

[Hypersphere]

I just got a nice reply from Steve McGowan, the vice president of Matias, regarding a detailed question I asked about how Matias's switches rank with Cherry MX in terms of tactile feel, with definable rating numbers. This was his reply:

Hi Robert,

The help desk forwarded your question to me for further assistance regarding
comparison to Cherry MX switches.

>How would you rate the Tactile Pro's and the Quiet Pro's switches' tactile
>feel against the Cherry MX's more tactile switch colors (green, blue,
>clear, white, brown)? Please use a rating such as (x% more/less, or 1 to
> 10 rating).

I've personally used Cherry MX blue and brown, but not the others, so I can
only comment on them. This is my personal opinion, since tactile feeling is
somewhat subjective.

Order from Most Tactile to Least Tactile:

1. Matias Click Switch (found in Matias Tactile Pro Keyboard for Mac, and
the Matias Tactile Pro Keyboard for PC (being announced at CES in a few
weeks), and the Matias Mini Tactile Pro Keyboard for Mac)
2. Cherry Blue
3. Matias Quiet-Click Switch (found in Matias Quiet Pro Keyboard for Mac,
Matias Quiet Pro Keyboard for PC, Matias Mini Quiet Pro Keyboard for PC,
Matias Laptop Pro Keyboard for Mac, Matias Secure Pro Keyboard for PC)
4. Cherry Brown

In my opinion, the Matias Click Switch is 30% more "tactile" than Cherry
Blue. Cherry Blue is 5% more "tactile" than Matias Quiet-Click Switch.
Matias Quiet-Click Switch is 25% more "tactile" than Cherry Brown.

Best Regards,
Steve

For those of you who are trying to decide which switch to choose for your tactile addiction (like me), I hope this has helped you as it did me.

And feel free to post your own impressions of tactile ranking with percentage numbers, which I feel is a much more helpful description than simply using adjectives like "a little," "much more," "similar," etc. In fact I feel we need to adopt some kind of system of ranking/describing with actual numeric rating (such as percentage or points). Even if there's a bit of subjectivity involved, I think the collective data will balance out quite well. We could use point system of 0-10 with decimal included if necessary, or a 0-100 system. And in cases where there's not enough experience with various switches to rate them accurately, use the percentage system like Steve did, for relative comparison.

While I admire attempts to quantify tactility of key switches, the proposed scheme is still arbitrary and actually no more useful than rank ordering into categories. Saying that one switch is "5% more tactile" than another is simply an opinion and not based on any quantified continuous measurement. In addition, What is meant by "tactile"? If we are going to attempt to rank switches by tactility, what are we attempting to evaluate? For example, could "tactility" be defined as the change in force that occurs between the peak and valley of the tactile bump in the force-displacement curve?

Nevertheless, I agree that if we were to attempt to rank tactility of switches on a numerical scale and then to pool the results, this could be informative. So, for example, we could start by defining the extremes: 0 = no tactility (a purely linear switch such as mx red or black) and 10 = the most tactile switch you have ever experienced (perhaps an IBM beam spring or an mx clear). This is similar to the way that physicians ask patients to rate pain: 0 = no pain at all; 10 = the worst pain you have ever experienced.

[jacobolus]

Cherry MX blue:


Matias quiet:


x axis is micrometers, y axis is grams-force.

[Lunatique]

Thanks for the graphs. Somebody should compile them into one source, in a form that can compare all of them in the same format. I'm new to the keyboard enthusiast community, so I'm not really the right person to do it.

...

Nevertheless, I agree that if we were to attempt to rank tactility of switches on a numerical scale and then to pool the results, this could be informative. So, for example, we could start by defining the extremes: 0 = no tactility (a purely linear switch such as mx red or black) and 10 = the most tactile switch you have ever experienced (perhaps an IBM beam spring or an mx clear). This is similar to the way that physicians ask patients to rate pain: 0 = no pain at all; 10 = the worst pain you have ever experienced.

That's exactly what I'm thinking. We'll need to establish some kind of baseline of which switch is considered the least tactile of all, which is the universally agreed-upon average (maybe Cherry brown?), and which is the most tactile, and slot them into 0, 5, and 10 spots as points of reference. If a newly developed switch ends up going lower or higher than the baseline, we can just append by using negative numbers or 10+ numbers. 0 to 10 seems most logical to me, since it's what people are used to (for example, we often grade the hotness of a person on a 10-point scale in daily life conversations). 0 - 100 is too hard to assess since there are too many numbers to consider.