HHKB w/ Topre or wait for new Cherry?

[willc]

I want to get a new keyboard... Had this K70 over a year so I figure its time for a paradigm shift! Was going to wait for the K95 RGB Brown, but then I saw that Cherry announced a new switch is going to come out soon. I also just now found out about Topre capacitive keys in the HHKB... Any opinions on the topre, vs waiting for the new Cherries, vs waiting for the K95 RGB's? Im perfectly happy with my board now I just want more

[Flyersfan1]

I wouldn't get your hopes up with whatever Cherry is teasing, I doubt it's going to be anything groundbreaking.  I would not hesitate for a second to recommend the HHKB if you think you can adapt to the form factor, the layout is phenomenal and the switches feel great. 

[atlas3686]

There are quite a few threads on Topre vs MX and specifically on the HHKB, just take a look. My two cents is the HHKB is awesome and would be a great addition but it's really hard to say what you should do. I haven't heard anything about the new cherry mx switch so can't comment.

[Khers]

.

[redskull]

first of all, what type of switch do you want? i.e. tactile or linear? move from there. tactile, play with cherry blue, brown, clears, etc. and topre. linear, then go down the path of blacks, reds.

and then of course the level of weight that you want.

[ideus]

If you have the money and you want to spend it right away, get any available board, you can always re-sell it at the classifieds if you do not like it. Topre and MX are different animals, these switches are implemented in very different ways that make them sound, feel, and work different, the MX boards are in general cheaper, but now are main stream in regards of replacement key caps sets, with Topre you will be limited to the originals. You provided no information about your needs, and preferences, or budget, so it is impossible to make an informed comment, just these general stuff.

[willc]

I want to keep it under $300, and I'm only really willing to go up that far if it truly is worth the money... I like my Cherry reds, but I wish they felt a little more solid under my fingers. Not necessarily heavier, or even more clicky, just slightly more resistance to initiate the click I guess? Oftentimes I have to do a double take on the board, because I'm not sure if the key registered; sometimes I'm typing too quickly and I try to type "the" and it comes out as "teh" because of key rollover and me assuming the h had already been actuated. I think that's because of the reds but I'm not sure how to diagnose the cause? I tried the reds out next to the browns today, and that click just was a little bit too clicky I think now that I'm used to the lightweightedness of the reds...

 I would use macros + media keys if I had them, but I have a Razer Epic w/ the 12 keys on the thumb so I just have everything mapped to those anyways... I like the raised keybed of my k70 because its easy to keep clean, but that's not necessary either... I kind of want numlock/tenkey as well.

[tbc]

derr....that's a VERY specific weighting you're looking for.

maybe lubed browns?

[willc]

Is it possible to keep the actuation but reduce the active weight of the keys on a brown board?

[eth0s]

Is it possible to keep the actuation but reduce the active weight of the keys on a brown board? If so, I might just go buy the K95 today

Well, the browns and reds both use 45g springs, so you can't do a spring swap.  I'm not hip as to what's going on right now in the cutting edge Korean Mod community, but IIIRC, people have sought a mythical 30g spring for cherry switches, but nobody ever made them, AFAIK.  Unless things have changed, you are stuck with 45g springs as the lightest you can get.

However, there is a solution to your predicament.  I heartily recommend the HHKB Pro 2 to you.  I usually qualify a Topre recommendation, but in your case there is no need for qualification, proviso or caveat, since you seem to want the something similar to an MX red with a bit of a tactile bump, which is how I usually describe the Topre 45g switch to the uninitiated.  Also, the Type-S is a little bit nicer than the standard model, and since your price target is $300, I say get teh HHKB Pro 2 Type-S.

As for the vs. teh, teh is considered proper spelling in teh l33t community of pro gamers.  So don't worry about that. 

[sorijealut]

Is it possible to keep the actuation but reduce the active weight of the keys on a brown board? If so, I might just go buy the K95 today

Well, the browns and reds both use 45g springs, so you can't do a spring swap.  I'm not hip as to what's going on right now in the cutting edge Korean Mod community, but IIIRC, people have sought a mythical 30g spring for cherry switches, but nobody ever made them, AFAIK.  Unless things have changed, you are stuck with 45g springs as the lightest you can get.

However, there is a solution to your predicament.  I heartily recommend the HHKB Pro 2 to you.  I usually qualify a Topre recommendation, but in your case there is no need for qualification, proviso or caveat, since you seem to want the something similar to an MX red with a bit of a tactile bump, which is how I usually describe the Topre 45g switch to the uninitiated.  Also, the Type-S is a little bit nicer than the standard model, and since your price target is $300, I say get teh HHKB Pro 2 Type-S.

As for the vs. teh, teh is considered proper spelling in teh l33t community of pro gamers.  So don't worry about that. 

Show Image

Oh I do wish I heard this explanation before I bought my board :)
I am in almost the same situation as OP, as I love my MX reds on KUL es87. I just ordered the HHKB Pro 2 (with a slight hesitation towards the Type-S, as it's more premium).
It's funny that what you describe as the "MX reds with a bump" is really all that I'm looking for - seems I've made the right choice then.
I'm so excited for my package in about 2 days.

[Hypersphere]

Having tried just about every Cherry mx switch (including red, black, brown, clear, blue, and green) along with various Alps, Space Invaders, various linear switches on vintage terminal boards, Topre, IBM membrane buckling spring, IBM capacitive buckling spring, and IBM beam spring, I've determined that the Cherry mx family constitute my least favorite type of switch. I would rank my preferences in switches as follows:

IBM capacitive buckling spring (Model F) ~ Matias Tactile Click ~ Topre 55g > Matias Silent Click ~ Topre 45g > IBM membrane buckling spring (Model M) ~ Monterey blue > Various Alps > NBM Space Invaders > Cherry mx.

This ranking is not etched in stone; my preferences change from time to time.

I've also tried various form factors, including full-size, 65-75%, TKL, 60%, and odd-sized IBM keyboards (F107 and F122). My favorite form factors are TKL and 60%.

After sampling layouts, including ISO, ANSI, Mac, and HHKB, my favorite is HHKB.

With all this in mind, my current favorite keyboards are:

RF 87ub 55g ~ HHKB Pro 2  ~ IBM XT > KBP V60 Matias Click ~ KBP V60 Matias Quiet ~ IBM SSK >> Poker II mx brown ~ WASD V2 87 mx brown

I waited a long time before getting the HHKB Pro 2, thinking I might not like the layout. However, I took to it instantly, and I like the HHKB/Mac layout so much that I now remap all my keyboards to something as close as possible to this configuration.

Of course, you might hate Topre and the HHKB layout, but if you are thinking about it, you will have to try it sometime.

[nubbinator]

IBM capacitive buckling spring (Model F) ~ Matias Tactile Click ~ Topre 55g > Matias Silent Click ~ Topre 45g > IBM membrane buckling spring (Model M) ~ Monterey blue > Various Alps > NBM Space Invaders > Cherry mx.

I have a different perspective, but that's what preference is for.  I actually find Matias switches inferior to MX.  I absolutely hate Matias Alps compared to vintage Alps.  I think the original Alps just feel so much better.  Matias Alps just lack that special quality, that je ne sais quoi.  MX also have a lot more room for customization.  I still love Ergo Clears and Ghost Blacks.  I think they're the pinnacle of MX switches.

I also hate hate hate Realforce and Leopold versions of Topre.  The HHKB is the absolute best feeling Topre board out there to me.

Model Ms to me are the absolute bottom barrel of the buckling spring switches and I'd take Matias Alps over them and I hate Matias Alps.  They're noisy, they're annoying, and they don't have a crisp solid actuation like Model Fs do.  Even a good one can still feel inconsistent and sometimes mushy.

And I've been unimpressed with all the Space Invader boards I've bought.  They're rock solid, fairly smooth, and have no wobble, but the throw is way too short on them and the tactile ones feel awkward. The clicky Space Invaders aren't bad, but I hate clicky switches.

So for me it would go:

HHKB Topre = Green, Brown, Blue, Orange Alps = Model F = Modded MX (if just barely) > stock MX = Yellow, White Alps = tactile NMB Hi-Tech > Matias Alps = tactile, linear NMB Hi-Tek > Model M = Realforce, Leopold Topre

[sorijealut]

Looks like HHKB 45g ranks quite highly for both of you guys. OP should consider it!

P.S. both have also helped me a bunch on my thread before, thank you

[Hellmark]

Are there any keyboards with topre on par with HHKB but is full size? HHKB gets rid of too many keys I commonly use.

[Hypersphere]

Preferences certainly vary, but my own preference is that I like the HHKB Pro 2 mainly for its 60% form factor and excellent layout. When I use a larger keyboard, I still remap it to the HHKB layout and almost never use the top row of F-keys or the navigation island keys, including the arrow keys.

For the Topre sound and feel, I prefer the RF 87ub 55g, although the 45g is a close second. For something in between, I like the sound and feel of the Leopold FC660C. I haven't tried a variable-weight Topre keyboard, but I anticipate that I would not like it, because some of the keys are 30g, and some 45g boards feel too light to me.

The largest keyboards I use these days are TKL or the IBM XT. I haven't tried a full-size Topre keyboard.

[Hellmark]

With my line of work, I am frequently using the arrows, function keys, and number pad. I probably could make due with a TKL, but definitely not a HHKB, which sucks because it seems like they're the best representation of topre.

[snipars]

The HHKB is a seriously amazing keyboard and if there's one keyboard that's worth spending a lot of money on i'd say it's the hhkb. 
It's tiny, amazing to type on, has great keycaps, looks brilliant and has all the functionality of a full-size keyboard

[AFKfapping]

Just like many of the people here i fully endorse the HHKB!!!

[RoflCopter4]

If you want the best board around then get a Topre board. If you want a tactile or clicky board worth your money then do not get anything from Cherry. What they call "tactile" is almost a joke. If you want a decent linear board then and only then is Cherry a reasonable option.

[Creizai]

Grabbed an KUL-87 Reds for muh vidya games, that lasted about a week.  You can bet your ass I'll be posting this up for trade + cash for a HHKB soon.

[willc]

Grabbed a Cherry Red K95RGB today for $150 new... So I'm pretty stoked  I couldn't get the browns, but I'm still okay with the reds ultimately I suppose... The new board does feel a lot nicer, I've been mashing away on that keyboard almost every day since I bought it, do the MX switches "wear" in over time? Maybe it's placebo, whatever lol. How do I go about grabbing custom keycaps for this particular board; do you have any recommendations?

[tbc]

Grabbed a Cherry Red K95RGB today for $150 new... So I'm pretty stoked  I couldn't get the browns, but I'm still okay with the reds ultimately I suppose... The new board does feel a lot nicer, I've been mashing away on that keyboard almost every day since I bought it, do the MX switches "wear" in over time? Maybe it's placebo, whatever lol. How do I go about grabbing custom keycaps for this particular board; do you have any recommendations?

that's a horrible board to customize.

your bottom row (spacebar) is non standard.

for reference, look at a picture of a filco and compare it to your corsair

[demik]

cherry sucks

only true hhkb is topre

[willc]

I saw someone w/ all translucent keycaps on it so I'm assuming it can be done... I just like the large macro bank, the exact keys as my previous board, and the RGB. It was a compromise I suppose, but it cost half as much as the topre board would've cost me.

Wasn't really buying it with the intent to customize, and to be honest I'm fine if the spacebar remains black and everything else is frosted. I just saw it so I assumed that they were easily swappable

[Macsmasher]

Well, I'm going to toss a wrench into this thread. Aside from any form factor preferences, my impression is that the Realforce keyboards are superior to HHKB Pro 2 in construction as well as typing feel. Maybe it's the plate mounted switches vs. case mounted in the HHKB, but they feel better built. I have the non-silenced HHKB Pro 2 btw.

Also, the switch housing that allows the Topre switch to actuate up and down in the HHKB is plastic against plastic. That inevitably means wear. I've had to take my HHKB apart twice to lube it because the left Shift key begins to stick. And I'm sure the RF boards have some plastic against plastic in the switch housing, but I've never had to do that with any of my three 87Us, which get a lot more use. I just don't see my HHKB lasting as long as my RF boards, but only time will tell haha.

Am I disappointed in my HHKB? Not at all. I'm glad I bought it and will continue to use it until it dies, which I expect will be many years from now.

[willc]

Yeah, it was worth it now that I have CUE figured out 

[Hypersphere]

Well, I'm going to toss a wrench into this thread. Aside from any form factor preferences, my impression is that the Realforce keyboards are superior to HHKB Pro 2 in construction as well as typing feel. Maybe it's the plate mounted switches vs. case mounted in the HHKB, but they feel better built. I have the non-silenced HHKB Pro 2 btw.

Also, the switch housing that allows the Topre switch to actuate up and down in the HHKB is plastic against plastic. That inevitably means wear. I've had to take my HHKB apart twice to lube it because the left Shift key begins to stick. And I'm sure the RF boards have some plastic against plastic in the switch housing, but I've never had to do that with any of my three 87Us, which get a lot more use. I just don't see my HHKB lasting as long as my RF boards, but only time will tell haha.

Am I disappointed in my HHKB? Not at all. I'm glad I bought it and will continue to use it until it dies, which I expect will be many years from now.

I had always thought that the feeling of greater solidity in the RF compared to the HHKB was merely an impression based on the fact that the HHKB Topre switches are case-mounted rather than plate-mounted as in the RF. This gives the HHKB a more hollow and plasticky sound and feel than the RF, but I had assumed that this did not necessarily reflect a difference in build quality between the two keyboards. However, your problem with a sticking left shift key might indicate otherwise. So far, I have not encountered any functional problems with my HHKB or RF keyboards, and I have been using them approximately equally.

I vary on my preference between the two. Sometimes I prefer the more solid sound and feel of the RF, but other times I like the springy sound and feel of the HHKB. I think that the HHKB might be less tiring to type on as well, perhaps because the case-mounted switches might provide more of a cushion than the plate-mounted switches in the RF.

Apart from sound and feel, I definitely prefer the 60% form factor and layout of the HHKB and the symmetry that follows from these features.

[dmbr]

Does the hhkb professional type-2 work with Macs?

Thanks

[rowdy]

Does the hhkb professional type-2 work with Macs?

Thanks

Yes.

There is even a "Mac mode" that you can set with a DIP switch.

[Hypersphere]

Yes! The HHKB seems quite Mac-centric, but it works fine with computers running OS X, Windows, or Linux. I use it with all three.