Just 3 Left! IBM 1370477 keyboards NIB! (1391401 1-piece keycaps)

[Snowdog993]

On Ebay of course!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BRAND-NEW-NIB-IBM-Model-1391401-1370477-Vintage-Clicky-Keyboard-1995-W-Conn-/351200785459?
Hope some members get in on this deal!  I had to get one!

[Snowdog993]

A little help from the Wiki.

[jacobolus]

$98 BIN = deal?

I don’t understand why people care about NIB for Model Ms. Model Ms that are heavily used are mostly indistinguishable from new ones.

[Snowdog993]

$98 BIN = deal?

I don’t understand why people care about NIB for Model Ms. Model Ms that are heavily used are mostly indistinguishable from new ones.

Bummer.  Why should I even post this?  Is your name Debbie Downer for real?  I think it's an awesome deal.
Those keyboards are 20 years old untouched.  Fine with me.

[Jotokun]

$98 BIN = deal?

I don’t understand why people care about NIB for Model Ms. Model Ms that are heavily used are mostly indistinguishable from new ones.

NIB are less likely to have broken rivets, and therefore should feel more consistent. There is a difference in feel, while I haven't tried a NIB, my '86 Model M has lost a decent amount of rivets and it feels noticeably heavier and "muddier" than my Lexmark Wheelwriter which as far as I can tell has lost none.

Considering Unicomps are $80, $98 for an IBM/Lexmark made one without all the cost cutting measures doesn't sound too bad.

[dorkvader]

Those green alt keys are awesome.

I think it's a good deal. Only a little more than a unicomp and (most likely) better quality.

I notice he also accepts some offers.

[rowdy]

Those green alt keys are awesome.

I think it's a good deal. Only a little more than a unicomp and (most likely) better quality.

I notice he also accepts some offers.

Both my Alt keys are green - is that unusual?

Also one Ctrl is Ctrl, but the other s Ctrl/Act.

[Snowdog993]

Both my Alt keys are green - is that unusual?

Also one Ctrl is Ctrl, but the other s Ctrl/Act.

Yeah Rowdy!  Not unusual for the green Alt keys I presume.  You probably have the RS/6000 keyboard though.  Check for a speaker on it!
My 1391401 just has two Ctrl keys and my 51G8572 has the Ctrl/Act key on the right side.  Note: The 51G8572 has a speaker built in too.  These were for the RS/6000's I believe.  Just a little trivia.
Edit: And yes, the Alt keys are green on both.
My Lexmark 1398601 has green Alt keys and both Ctrl keys just say Ctrl.
The Unicomp 103 has black Alt keys.

[bowji]

Buckling spring keyboards have been on my radar recently and deals like this makes me wish I was back in the states. NIB Model M for $98 seems legit but I cant justify $45 shipping costs.
Great find, hope it sells out to members here looking for Model Ms <3

[jdcarpe]

Actually, being NIB has little effect on whether the rivets will be mostly intact or not. You can get a NIB with half the rivets broken, or a well used IBM with every rivet intact. I think being stored in a temperature controlled environment may have more to do with it than anything.

[Snowdog993]

Actually, being NIB has little effect on whether the rivets will be mostly intact or not. You can get a NIB with half the rivets broken, or a well used IBM with every rivet intact. I think being stored in a temperature controlled environment may have more to do with it than anything.

That's a risk I am willing to take.  Tell ya what, I will let you know after I get the keyboard.  It will probably take more than a week shipping from that seller, and the keyboards will be sold out.  Oh well.  I sincerely doubt the rivets are broken.

[rowdy]

Both my Alt keys are green - is that unusual?

Also one Ctrl is Ctrl, but the other s Ctrl/Act.

Yeah Rowdy!  Not unusual for the green Alt keys I presume.  You probably have the RS/6000 keyboard though.  Check for a speaker on it!
My 1391401 just has two Ctrl keys and my 51G8572 has the Ctrl/Act key on the right side.  Note: The 51G8572 has a speaker built in too.  These were for the RS/6000's I believe.  Just a little trivia.
Edit: And yes, the Alt keys are green on both.
My Lexmark 1398601 has green Alt keys and both Ctrl keys just say Ctrl.
The Unicomp 103 has black Alt keys.

Nope, just a plain old SDL Model M.  51G8572 made by Lexmark in 29-Nov-1995.

[Snowdog993]

Nope, just a plain old SDL Model M.  51G8572 made by Lexmark in 29-Nov-1995.

Yep.  Look closer at the speaker grille in the back!  *Wink*
Edit: You made me take a picture of it!

[rowdy]

Nope, just a plain old SDL Model M.  51G8572 made by Lexmark in 29-Nov-1995.

Yep.  Look closer at the speaker grille in the back!  *Wink*

Whadayaknow?  I shone a torch in the grille and it does look like there is a speaker there!

TIL

I haven't opened this keyboard (yet), just my other Model M when I was making a fixed PS/2 cable for it.

So that's a good thing?  Having a speaker?

[Snowdog993]

Nope, just a plain old SDL Model M.  51G8572 made by Lexmark in 29-Nov-1995.

Yep.  Look closer at the speaker grille in the back!  *Wink*

Whadayaknow?  I shone a torch in the grille and it does look like there is a speaker there!


TIL

I haven't opened this keyboard (yet), just my other Model M when I was making a fixed PS/2 cable for it.

So that's a good thing?  Having a speaker?

It's just a unique feature of the RS/6000 versions of the keyboard.  It's special to any collector I suppose.

[Snowdog993]

... and here I am going off topic in my own thread!  I just hope some members get in on that deal! 

[Xonar]

This is a pretty good deal. Had I not already bought an '86 silver label yesterday and currently eyeing up an SSK, I'd jump on this.

Actually, being NIB has little effect on whether the rivets will be mostly intact or not. You can get a NIB with half the rivets broken, or a well used IBM with every rivet intact. I think being stored in a temperature controlled environment may have more to do with it than anything.

That's a risk I am willing to take.  Tell ya what, I will let you know after I get the keyboard.  It will probably take more than a week shipping from that seller, and the keyboards will be sold out.  Oh well.  I sincerely doubt the rivets are broken.

The first time I opened the packaging of my NIB Model M, a bunch of rivets fell out of the case. NIB or not, jdcarpe is right. It all depends on the environment in which it is stored in.

[rowdy]

... and here I am going off topic in my own thread!  I just hope some members get in on that deal! 

It is your thread, after all

I was thinking the same thing though - maybe we need a general Model M discussion thread.

[fohat.digs]

I can see how some people would pay a $30 premium for a new Lexmark over a new Unicomp, but the "great find" part is that the option is seldom there.

[Snowdog993]

I can see how some people would pay a $30 premium for a new Lexmark over a new Unicomp, but the "great find" part is that the option is seldom there.

What are you saying?  I'm still puzzled by that statement.  I think finding any Model M that is new in the box is a great find.  Especially for the price.
There are some sellers that will sell them starting at 3-4x that price, just because of that.  *sigh*

[Touch_It]

I agree,  I see nice or nib model m'a on eBay all the time for more than this.  Holy grail find, no.... The most desirable model, no.... Good price,  yes.  You may need to do a bolt mod but you know all the springs etc are good.  Also at some point in time nib ones will all but disappear.  Hard to imagine but it will happen.

Would have likely bought one if I could have, but it wasn't in the cards

[Snowdog993]

One left as of now.  Last chance!

[Belfong]

Stupid question - what is this rivets you all talk about? Is it the 'leg' of each key cap? Or it's something inside the switch?

[fohat.digs]

Stupid question - what is this rivets you all talk about?

There are several layers with a plastic shell (barrel frame aka chimney plate) on top, membranes between, and a metal plate on the back.

Original manufacture had posts (properly called "studs" I would say) molded into the plastic sheet which passed through holes in the membranes and out the back of the metal plate. Then some sort of press pushed them all tight and melted the heads of the posts into a flat mushroom shape which held it all together.

Over time, these "mushroom heads" pop off and the plates are no longer held tightly together.

[rowdy]

Stupid question - what is this rivets you all talk about? Is it the 'leg' of each key cap? Or it's something inside the switch?

This thread contains a photo log of a bolt mod, including lots of pictures of the rivets.

[Snowdog993]

I will let everyone know after I get the keyboard if the rivets need to be repaired.  I'm pretty confident that it will be just fine.  There are a few people who have had bad experiences with buying electronics that are "vintage".  It goes with the territory.  You sometimes get a lemon but that really isn't the norm with these keyboards.
  If you obtain one from a Salvation Army, or a GoodWill or any charity organization where people donate their old electronics, you will find more keyboards with broken rivets than ever.  I'm just stating the facts here.
  You get one of those type of keyboards from them, you can "bolt mod" "screw mod" the barrel plate to the metal frame using about 70 screws to re-secure it.  That is tedious work and if you don't know what you are doing, don't do it.  (This is coming from someone who tried it and failed before)
  The used keyboards I have now are all in excellent condition and I use them all on 4 computers.  Did they cost me as much as this one?  No.  But at least I know what I am looking for and have been very happy.
What is worse is buying something like a rubberdome Model M.  They do make them and be wary of sellers that won't specify (ESPECIALLY) the exact Model M you are buying from them.  Watch out for those sellers that say "Untested" especially on the 1391401 or their variants.  If they can't plug them into a PC to test them, what the heck are they selling them for?
The RJ-45 models (terminal) keyboards, can't be tested unless they are hooked up to the terminal they are designed for.  They won't connect to your computer unless you purchase a "Soarer's Adapter" for it.  (They cost around $40)  So be sure you ADD that into the cost of your 102-key terminal board.   There are other things you need to know about that too, but there are several threads going into details about this.
  I just have a hard time being optimistic when there are so many pessimistic people.  Knock it off unless you want to troll and make people upset because they want to be helpful and maybe pass on a good deal to someone else. 
My goodness.  /rant.

[jdcarpe]

^ wtf are you going on about?

So you are some expert on vintage IBM, and people should just believe everything you say without question?

[SpAmRaY]

^ wtf are you going on about?

So you are some expert on vintage IBM, and people should just believe everything you say without question?

Well this is the internet so he must be right. And he's almost been here a month.

[Belfong]

Thanks fohats and rowdy.

[Snowdog993]

I just have to remember that I'm new here.  You don't know me, and I don't know you.
I'll call that even.
Have a nice day.

[dorkvader]

Both my Alt keys are green - is that unusual?

Also one Ctrl is Ctrl, but the other s Ctrl/Act.

Yeah Rowdy!  Not unusual for the green Alt keys I presume.  You probably have the RS/6000 keyboard though.  Check for a speaker on it!
My 1391401 just has two Ctrl keys and my 51G8572 has the Ctrl/Act key on the right side.  Note: The 51G8572 has a speaker built in too.  These were for the RS/6000's I believe.  Just a little trivia.
Edit: And yes, the Alt keys are green on both.
My Lexmark 1398601 has green Alt keys and both Ctrl keys just say Ctrl.
The Unicomp 103 has black Alt keys.

With a few exceptions (this being one) most lexmark model Ms have black-printed "alt" keys. Also the front printing on the print screen / pause is the same colour as the "alt".

I've thought of picking up a 51g8572 or 1374077 because of that and the speaker. What can I say, I'm a collector of IBM keycaps!

[jacobolus]

Snowdog: Note that Soarer’s converter is something which originated on this forum (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=17458.0), fohat and dorkvader are two of the authorities on Model M bolt mods, and there are several very serious IBM keyboard collectors around here. No one is trying to stomp on your enthusiasm.

I’m sure these NIB 1995 Lexmark Ms are great keyboards, and I’m sure someone will be happy to pay ~$100 for them. I’ve only ever briefly tried a Model M of that era, but from what I understand the Ms from the late 80s are a bit nicer. I can see why people are willing to pay a premium for NIB, but speaking for myself, I’d just as soon pay $30–50 for an earlier model, since these keyboards are real tanks, and even heavily used ones are usually in basically their original condition. (Then again, it’s not really relevant to me personally; I have a 1989 Model M that I got from my uncle [who spent his career as an engineer at IBM] and I don’t really need another one.)

Out of curiosity, have you ever tried a Model F? If you like Model Ms, you might really enjoy a Model F, which is even louder, heavier, and more solid feeling, if you can believe it, and IMO also nicer to type on.

[fohat.digs]

After you use a Model F it is hard to be excited about a Model M any more. And after you have taken them apart, you can see how the Model M was built as an extreme exercise in cheapening and cost-cutting.

How unfortunate that they never came in a viable straight-ANSI layout!

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48786.msg1338079#msg1338079

[Snowdog993]

No argument. Whatever you say is right and I am wrong. It's the internet, remember?
http://www.clickykeyboards.com/index.cfm/fa/items.main/parentcat/13198/subcatid/0/id/239398
http://www.clickykeyboards.com/index.cfm/fa/items.main/parentcat/9229/subcatid/0/id/585552
I don't know what he hell you are talking about "Mr. Keycap Collector"

[fohat.digs]

What is the date on that advertisement?

I have had a few blue-label Model Ms with the "IBM made by Lexmark" back label, but I don't think that I have ever actually seen a Lexmark-branded one in real life.

Did they run side-by-side, or did the IBM logo go away at some point?

[Snowdog993]

Go here.  It's an advertisement by Lexmark when they first started making keyboards for IBM.  (I think it's about 1991 or 1992)
http://www.clickeykeyboards.com/model-m-gallery/vintage-product-literature-on-model-m-keyboards-lexmark-inc/

BTW My 42H1292 I had ALSO had green Alt keys.  My 1391401 *Blue Label* that my nephew inherited has green Alt keys.  Xonar was saying that the rubberdomes weren't made before whatever he said, and that was wrong too.  I don't get it.

After all, it's just the internet.

[Parak]

It's just a unique feature of the RS/6000 versions of the keyboard.  It's special to any collector I suppose.

Neat - I've thought that the RS/6000 only used those funky topre-ish rubber dome keyboards, which did have a speaker as well. I guess they switched to the Ms at some point - maybe they were cheaper to make than esoteric Japanese imports!

[Snowdog993]

What is the date on that advertisement?

I have had a few blue-label Model Ms with the "IBM made by Lexmark" back label, but I don't think that I have ever actually seen a Lexmark-branded one in real life.

Did they run side-by-side, or did the IBM logo go away at some point?

You can see mine.  It's not in real life, but after all, it's just the internet!

[Snowdog993]

It's just a unique feature of the RS/6000 versions of the keyboard.  It's special to any collector I suppose.

Neat - I've thought that the RS/6000 only used those funky topre-ish rubber dome keyboards, which did have a speaker as well. I guess they switched to the Ms at some point - maybe they were cheaper to make than esoteric Japanese imports!

All the RS/6000's I have used at the time all had the 51G8572 keyboards included with them.  At that time period those computers were more than $11,000 each!  It must have been later in time because I did not encounter one with the 1394540 keyboards.

[Parak]

All the RS/6000's I have used at the time all had the 51G8572 keyboards included with them.  At that time period those computers were more than $11,000 each!  It must have been later in time because I did not encounter one with the 1394540 keyboards.

Just me being brain addled in the early morning, I think. Somehow mixing up the RT and 5085/6 with the RS/6000...

[rockhawksam]

Just got the last one! Excited for my first Model M!

[Snowdog993]

Snowdog: Note that Soarer’s converter is something which originated on this forum (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=17458.0), fohat and dorkvader are two of the authorities on Model M bolt mods, and there are several very serious IBM keyboard collectors around here. No one is trying to stomp on your enthusiasm.

Out of curiosity, have you ever tried a Model F? If you like Model Ms, you might really enjoy a Model F, which is even louder, heavier, and more solid feeling, if you can believe it, and IMO also nicer to type on.

Yes I did, and I found them uncomfortable to work with and really (honestly) was frustrated with the layout.  I don't think that's what you wanted to hear, but it is the truth.  The keys I admit, were great!  The layout, not so much.  I did like the AT layout that came out a little later with the separate numpad and the L-shaped Return key.   But to make a long story short, (too late) I did fall in love with the model M layout.  It was the best thing at the time, and here we are years later, and that layout is still being used. 

[Xonar]

I don't understand where your extreme butthurt is coming from, Snowdog. You posted this topic, most agree that it's a not the greatest deal ever, but a decent enough deal, and come to the conclusion that NIB has nothing to do with broken rivets. This is a well known fact. Literally no one is bashing on NIB Model M's or the merits of buying one, yet you're very defensive about it. This is a trend I've noticed with every discussion you get involved in.

You're not the only Model M enthusiast here. Your opinion is not the only one that people should ever consider. Perhaps keyboard forums aren't the place for you if you can't understand that?

BTW, I did say rubberdome Model M's weren't made before 1994 "IIRC", implying that I wasn't 100% sure. I never claimed that my statement was absolutely correct, which is something only you, unsurprisingly, seemed to miss.

[Snowdog993]

I don't understand where your extreme butthurt is coming from, Snowdog. You posted this topic, most agree that it's a not the greatest deal ever, but a decent enough deal, and come to the conclusion that NIB has nothing to do with broken rivets. This is a well known fact. Literally no one is bashing on NIB Model M's or the merits of buying one, yet you're very defensive about it. This is a trend I've noticed with every discussion you get involved in.

BTW, I did say rubberdome Model M's weren't made before 1994 "IIRC", implying that I wasn't 100% sure. I never claimed that my statement was absolutely correct, which is something only you, unsurprisingly, seemed to miss.

Glad to see you!  I'm not butthurt whatsoever.  I do realize that there is a possibility the rivets may have deteriorated and come off.  Hopefully not so with these keyboards.  I guess you took what I said to be wrong and ALL keyboards that are new in the box have broken rivets.  In my experience, it's the opposite.  I just disagree with you.  That's all.

I just know on every forum everywhere you go, there will always be people that know what they are talking about, and those that don't.

After all, it's just the internet.

[jdcarpe]

I'm not butthurt whatsoever.

Actually, you prove yourself wrong right here:

After all, it's just the internet.

But continue to troll your own thread. It's a great way to make yourself known when coming to a new forum, right?

[Snowdog993]

I'm not butthurt whatsoever.

Actually, you prove yourself wrong right here:

After all, it's just the internet.

But continue to troll your own thread. It's a great way to make yourself known when coming to a new forum, right?

All of the keyboards are sold.  I think you're right.  Maybe we can be pals too. 
/thread

[Snowdog993]

This keyboard is in pristine condition.  DOB: 9/11/95.  No broken anything at all Xonar.  I'm very very happy.  I was actually worried that it would be broken.  No broken rivets, it is like new.  I'm glad I got it now.
Edit: time to close this again, they sold them all.