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Offline gr1618

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« on: Sun, 18 January 2015, 09:36:11 »
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« Last Edit: Sun, 05 July 2015, 21:47:52 by gr1618 »

Offline bueller

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Re: Mopar Diagnostic System (MDS) Industrial SSK
« Reply #1 on: Sun, 18 January 2015, 09:38:27 »
$5 Industrial SSK  :eek:
It's a good width!  If it's half-width it's too narrow, and full-width is too wide. 

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Offline gr1618

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« Reply #2 on: Sun, 18 January 2015, 09:41:20 »
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« Last Edit: Sun, 05 July 2015, 21:48:02 by gr1618 »

Offline Puddsy

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Re: Mopar Diagnostic System (MDS) Industrial SSK
« Reply #3 on: Sun, 18 January 2015, 09:42:26 »
Oh Lord.

That's great info, thanks.

Watch the price of those spike lol.
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Offline gr1618

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« Reply #4 on: Sun, 18 January 2015, 15:45:17 »
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« Last Edit: Sun, 05 July 2015, 21:48:11 by gr1618 »

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Mopar Diagnostic System (MDS) Industrial SSK
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 27 January 2015, 16:21:32 »
This is really cool info. Thanks for sharing :D

Offline nubbinator

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Re: Mopar Diagnostic System (MDS) Industrial SSK
« Reply #6 on: Tue, 27 January 2015, 16:25:58 »
I told JD about this, but it appears that GM made one with IBM as well.  It may have been co-developed with the Chrysler MOPAR one.  GM's is called the Techline T-100.

http://www.apnewsarchive.com/1991/Automakers-Offering-Expensive-Computer-Diagnostic-Tools/id-8283116096da6c989f93e6c24ed2a299

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: Mopar Diagnostic System (MDS) Industrial SSK
« Reply #7 on: Tue, 27 January 2015, 16:36:28 »
Quote
GM is offering its dealers the Techline T-100 system, and Chrysler is marketing the Mopar Diagnostic System, a joint project with IBM Corp.

I think the first comma in that sentence separates two independent clauses. As in they could be two separate sentences, or thoughts. Meaning I don't think IBM had anything to do with the Techline T-100. But I'm just speculating. I've never seen either system in fact.
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Offline nubbinator

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Re: Mopar Diagnostic System (MDS) Industrial SSK
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 27 January 2015, 16:43:30 »
There was another article I found that more explicitly stated that IBM had worked with GM on theirs.Just found it again.

Relevant section:

Quote
GM has placed its Techline T-100 system, made by IBM Corp., in about 4,000 of its 9,700 dealers, said spokesman Tom Tyler. It costs about $18,000 to $20,000, depending on how many makes of cars it can check.


Chrysler Corp. offers its system only as a lease of $295 to $595 a month, depending on dealership size and frequency of use. The company ran a pilot program last fall of its Mopar Diagnostic System, a joint project with International Business Machines Corp., and is now installing the system in about 250 dealerships.

Ford's Service Bay Diagnostic System looks like it's touch screen and Toyota's was made by Edge Diagnostic Systems Inc. and Sun Electric Corp. and called the Simu-Tech.


Video of Ford's touch screen:
« Last Edit: Tue, 27 January 2015, 16:45:29 by nubbinator »

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: Mopar Diagnostic System (MDS) Industrial SSK
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 27 January 2015, 16:44:37 »
Ah cool. That's more clearly worded.
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Offline nubbinator

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Re: Mopar Diagnostic System (MDS) Industrial SSK
« Reply #10 on: Tue, 27 January 2015, 16:46:12 »
Yeah, if I hadn't found that other article before, I would never have been certain.  It's just so poorly worded.

Offline ProfessorC30

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Re: Mopar Diagnostic System (MDS) Industrial SSK
« Reply #11 on: Thu, 23 April 2015, 19:07:53 »
I wanted to add to this topic since I'm old enough to remember the T-100. I worked as a GM Tech and at the GM Training Center and actually taught a class on the Techline Terminals. I found this thread because I was researching why certain IBM keyboards were selling for such wild prices.

Yes, the T-100 (and T-120 and many others) were IBM computers (referred by GM to as "Techline Terminals") that GM contracted to be built for the purpose of managing service information (service bulletins, updating the handheld scan tools, reflashing the eproms in the ECM's and so on).  There was another machine that GM tried before the T-100, also built by IBM called CAMS (computer assisted maintenance system). It used a very early pre-pentium processor, a 5 3/4" floppy drive and had a touch-screen interface. It had dozens of cables specially made to connect to various parts of each car's wiring harness for computer-aided troubleshooting. The Model M keyboard (102 keys I think) was locked in the drawer and only the administrator and IBM had a key.  I remember when our dealership got one of the first ones available and the dealer said it cost him $18,000. That would have been about 1989 or 1990. The CAMS system was short-lived and replaced by the T-1XX series machines. GM decided to abandon the idea of using the CAMS machine to troubleshoot the vehicle directly, instead the aim of the Techline Terminals was changed to support the tech by providing service information and as a link to update the Tech1 scanner. Oh, BTW, the T-100 had a 100Mhz processor and the T-120 was 120Mhz and so on. Some of these first terminals used Windows 3.1. Before these dealership terminals were available, it was impossible to re-flash a vehicle's software. A new prom had to be ordered through the parts department. As vehicles became re-programmable in the field, the Techline Terminals were the method of downloading the software into the Tech1 and then into the vehicle.

GM was very protective of their service software (Techline) and required dealers to buy their terminals directly from GM Tools, instead of a generic computer dealer (Gateway, Dell, or any others). GM claimed the specs were so critical to run their software that only computers bought from them would work properly; thus forcing dealers to pay exorbitant prices for really common hardware. There were hardware and software locks to prevent dealers and techs from using the software on other machines. Because of this, only IBM PC's were used in GM dealerships. Technology was advancing very rapidly at the time and the terminals had to be replaced every 2 or 3 years, so the old PC was usually discarded as they were usually pretty dirty from greasy fingerprints. That's why finding those keyboards today is so hard.

Hope that explains a little about the GM Techline terminals back in the pre-historic days.  I wish I had kept all those old keyboards. Ha.

« Last Edit: Thu, 23 April 2015, 19:19:05 by ProfessorC30 »

Offline Touch_It

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Re: Mopar Diagnostic System (MDS) Industrial SSK
« Reply #12 on: Fri, 24 April 2015, 11:01:53 »
Awesome bit of history!  Thanks for sharing.


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Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Mopar Diagnostic System (MDS) Industrial SSK
« Reply #13 on: Fri, 24 April 2015, 11:03:42 »
More
I wanted to add to this topic since I'm old enough to remember the T-100. I worked as a GM Tech and at the GM Training Center and actually taught a class on the Techline Terminals. I found this thread because I was researching why certain IBM keyboards were selling for such wild prices.

Yes, the T-100 (and T-120 and many others) were IBM computers (referred by GM to as "Techline Terminals") that GM contracted to be built for the purpose of managing service information (service bulletins, updating the handheld scan tools, reflashing the eproms in the ECM's and so on).  There was another machine that GM tried before the T-100, also built by IBM called CAMS (computer assisted maintenance system). It used a very early pre-pentium processor, a 5 3/4" floppy drive and had a touch-screen interface. It had dozens of cables specially made to connect to various parts of each car's wiring harness for computer-aided troubleshooting. The Model M keyboard (102 keys I think) was locked in the drawer and only the administrator and IBM had a key.  I remember when our dealership got one of the first ones available and the dealer said it cost him $18,000. That would have been about 1989 or 1990. The CAMS system was short-lived and replaced by the T-1XX series machines. GM decided to abandon the idea of using the CAMS machine to troubleshoot the vehicle directly, instead the aim of the Techline Terminals was changed to support the tech by providing service information and as a link to update the Tech1 scanner. Oh, BTW, the T-100 had a 100Mhz processor and the T-120 was 120Mhz and so on. Some of these first terminals used Windows 3.1. Before these dealership terminals were available, it was impossible to re-flash a vehicle's software. A new prom had to be ordered through the parts department. As vehicles became re-programmable in the field, the Techline Terminals were the method of downloading the software into the Tech1 and then into the vehicle.

GM was very protective of their service software (Techline) and required dealers to buy their terminals directly from GM Tools, instead of a generic computer dealer (Gateway, Dell, or any others). GM claimed the specs were so critical to run their software that only computers bought from them would work properly; thus forcing dealers to pay exorbitant prices for really common hardware. There were hardware and software locks to prevent dealers and techs from using the software on other machines. Because of this, only IBM PC's were used in GM dealerships. Technology was advancing very rapidly at the time and the terminals had to be replaced every 2 or 3 years, so the old PC was usually discarded as they were usually pretty dirty from greasy fingerprints. That's why finding those keyboards today is so hard.

Hope that explains a little about the GM Techline terminals back in the pre-historic days.  I wish I had kept all those old keyboards. Ha.

Thanks for sharing!! This is really interesting.

Offline Dihedral

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Re: Mopar Diagnostic System (MDS) Industrial SSK
« Reply #14 on: Fri, 24 April 2015, 12:04:07 »
Interesting post - thanks for posting. I wonder if the person who picked up that 5 dollar ssk knew its value?

Offline nubbinator

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Re: Mopar Diagnostic System (MDS) Industrial SSK
« Reply #15 on: Fri, 24 April 2015, 12:45:08 »
Always cool to hear some history.  Thanks for confirming what those articles said.  It's always cool to have a little tech archaeology.