Model Ms do not like to be booted up

[chyros]

Hiya guys,

I'm having an issue with both my Model Ms. At first I thought this issue was unique to my old one, but I got another one yesterday and it suffers from the exact same issue so I was wondering what was going on here.

When I boot up my computer with either of my Model Ms connected, it will not work when Windows starts up. It will work before that, such as on the setup screen, but as soon as I hit Windows, it stop working. Moreover, unplugging it and swapping it for another keyboard at that point will NOT work. However, starting the computer with any other keyboard and then swapping it for the Model M after Windows has started up works just fine.

Anyone have any idea what's going on here? Oo

[Snowdog993]

Are you using a PS/2 to USB adapter on them?  Some of them simply won't work.  Have you tried using them on a natural PS/2 port? 

[FrostyToast]

So you have enabled the PS/2 port in the BIOS, right?

[chyros]

So you have enabled the PS/2 port in the BIOS, right?

Must have, because all my other keyboards are PS/2 Oo . I don't know how to enable PS/2 myself, but I'm assuming without doing that, none of my other keyboards would've worked either...

Are you using a PS/2 to USB adapter on them?  Some of them simply won't work.  Have you tried using them on a natural PS/2 port? 

I have a PS/2 port on my computer. The keyboard does work, just not when I boot it up with it. The Num Lock light is even on when I do, but pressing the button doesn't unlight it after it hits Windows.

[Shayde]

Odd that swapping out a PS/2 keyboard for the Model M causes it to work.  Whenever a PS/2 keyboard gets unplugged on my machine that's it for the PS/2 port until I reboot as it won't detect anything, which I thought was standard?

You could try a PS/2 -> USB adaptor known to work with Model M's.  That way it's the electronics in the adaptor doing the talkin' to the keyboard, and Windows just sees another USB device.

[E TwentyNine]

Odd that swapping out a PS/2 keyboard for the Model M causes it to work.  Whenever a PS/2 keyboard gets unplugged on my machine that's it for the PS/2 port until I reboot as it won't detect anything, which I thought was standard?

It's not unusual for a "natural" PS/2 port to really be a PS/2 port backed by an internal converter over to USB.  So you can hot swap.  Could be the case here.

You could try a PS/2 -> USB adaptor known to work with Model M's.  That way it's the electronics in the adaptor doing the talkin' to the keyboard, and Windows just sees another USB device.

This is the right idea.  Also, I've seen it when an M going through a USB converter will not work if booted up while connected to a USB3 port, but works fine with a USB2.  Never investigated it, just switched ports...

[chyros]

Odd that swapping out a PS/2 keyboard for the Model M causes it to work.  Whenever a PS/2 keyboard gets unplugged on my machine that's it for the PS/2 port until I reboot as it won't detect anything, which I thought was standard?

I can swap any keyboard at any time and it will work Oo . If it's non-standard, I don't know how it got that way Oo .

You could try a PS/2 -> USB adaptor known to work with Model M's.  That way it's the electronics in the adaptor doing the talkin' to the keyboard, and Windows just sees another USB device.

Hmm might just try that, I have one lying around at work.

[Snowdog993]

So you have enabled the PS/2 port in the BIOS, right?

Must have, because all my other keyboards are PS/2 Oo . I don't know how to enable PS/2 myself, but I'm assuming without doing that, none of my other keyboards would've worked either...

Are you using a PS/2 to USB adapter on them?  Some of them simply won't work.  Have you tried using them on a natural PS/2 port? 

I have a PS/2 port on my computer. The keyboard does work, just not when I boot it up with it. The Num Lock light is even on when I do, but pressing the button doesn't unlight it after it hits Windows.

It's power draw.  The model M keyboards draw about 10x the power of other PS/2 keyboards.  Your PS/2 port is probably an emulated port through the motherboard.  That way you can hotswap PS/2 keyboards.  I don't recommend doing that at all with a natural PS/2 port.
A lot of motherboard manufacturers have taken shortcuts on design and some don't allow the proper amount of current the M's require.  The proper USB to PS/2 adapter will allow it to work.
Sometimes it's the cable itself too.  If you have more than one cable, you might want to try the other one to see if it works.  If both cables are bad, you might have two great, functioning keyboards with 2 malfunctioning cords.
There is no way I can tell from here.  I hope you get things working.

[Shayde]

It's power draw.  The model M keyboards draw about 10x the power of other PS/2 keyboards.

Why would that be?  The Model M's don't have anything fancy in the way of electronics compared to other boards.

[chyros]

It's power draw.  The model M keyboards draw about 10x the power of other PS/2 keyboards.

Why would that be?  The Model M's don't have anything fancy in the way of electronics compared to other boards.

I've actually heard it's even more, 100x, at 112 mA versus 1.12 mA (http://mg8.org/rump/). Source says it's just the logic board drawing that, though I have no idea how that would work.

So you have enabled the PS/2 port in the BIOS, right?

Must have, because all my other keyboards are PS/2 Oo . I don't know how to enable PS/2 myself, but I'm assuming without doing that, none of my other keyboards would've worked either...

Are you using a PS/2 to USB adapter on them?  Some of them simply won't work.  Have you tried using them on a natural PS/2 port? 

I have a PS/2 port on my computer. The keyboard does work, just not when I boot it up with it. The Num Lock light is even on when I do, but pressing the button doesn't unlight it after it hits Windows.

It's power draw.  The model M keyboards draw about 10x the power of other PS/2 keyboards.  Your PS/2 port is probably an emulated port through the motherboard.  That way you can hotswap PS/2 keyboards.  I don't recommend doing that at all with a natural PS/2 port.
A lot of motherboard manufacturers have taken shortcuts on design and some don't allow the proper amount of current the M's require.  The proper USB to PS/2 adapter will allow it to work.
Sometimes it's the cable itself too.  If you have more than one cable, you might want to try the other one to see if it works.  If both cables are bad, you might have two great, functioning keyboards with 2 malfunctioning cords.
There is no way I can tell from here.  I hope you get things working.

Ah! That might be it for sure. I'll get my PS/2 to USB today when I go to work to test it out. All my three SDL cables don't work on either of the keyboards though, unfortunately. So it may very well be that power issue.

[chyros]

Success! It's working now, for both keyboards . Seems like it's definitely a power issue then. Cheers for the help!

[arakula]

If it did work on the PS/2 port of the very same PC before, and stopped working right now, but still works with a USB adapter, it looks like your PC's motherboard is starting to develop a problem. How old is it? Do any of the capacitors look bulged or leaking?

[chyros]

No, it never actually worked if I booted it up with the Model M on it, it only ever worked if I swapped it after Windows has started. Just to be sure I checked my motherboard quickly though, and it seems ok - the PC is three years old but admittedly I've treated it badly.