Author Topic: Help Ducky design the next special edition  (Read 4491 times)

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Offline Matt3o

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Help Ducky design the next special edition
« on: Fri, 13 February 2015, 05:54:16 »
So I've been asked to help Ducky making sense of their next special edition keyboard.

For unknown reasons they want to release a variable-switch board (switch color varies along the board). As far as I understand this is what they have in mind so far



I really can't see the rationale behind this board, but if you really had to make something like this, how would you make it?

Let me start the dance with an alternative I laid out very quickly. I'll post more in the coming days but please let's try to give a sense to this thing and it might become a real board.


Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Help Ducky design the next special edition
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 13 February 2015, 05:58:13 »
I think if there *must* be different switches on the same board, it should have similar switches. So say MX Greens and Blues. Or MX Browns and Clears. Reds and Blacks. That kinda thing.

It would be nice to see a TKL or 60% instead of another full size from Ducky. They've got plenty of offerings in 100%.

I really liked the two-tone LEDs on their mini and YOTH so perhaps they could use that but expand the color choices? Or just go RGB :).

Offline phishy

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Re: Help Ducky design the next special edition
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 13 February 2015, 06:23:33 »
lets see a 60% with arrow keys.  All primary keys in clear, all modifiers in red.

Offline Matt3o

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Re: Help Ducky design the next special edition
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 13 February 2015, 06:32:11 »
just to be clear, the layout is not configurable. Only the switch type/color is.

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Help Ducky design the next special edition
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 13 February 2015, 06:35:17 »
Special Edition Ducky x Cherry switches:

- 65g MX Linears with a Pink stem
- MX Black Springs with MX Clear stems

Offline MAR82

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Re: Help Ducky design the next special edition
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 13 February 2015, 06:44:58 »
Sorry I didn't use the same image as you. I thought that the WASD layout editor would make it faster to illustrate my idea.

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What I did was group the different style of switches together as much as possible. Linears with linears, tactile with tactile, and clicky with clickies. I like the idea of having more than 3 Cherry MX white switches, so that people have a better chance of feeling the inconsistency that they are known to have. I find that clicky switches are the best for writing, and that's why I used them for the alphas ands main mods. Some games think that MX Reds are the best for gaming, so that's why I put them on the arrows (some gamers use them for some things, I think). As for the rest of the switches, they just seemed to naturally take their spots after the rest was done

Offline Matt3o

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Re: Help Ducky design the next special edition
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 13 February 2015, 07:09:37 »
why F9-12 MX Gray? instead of white?

Offline MAR82

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Re: Help Ducky design the next special edition
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 13 February 2015, 07:21:17 »
why F9-12 MX Gray? instead of white?

Just because I thought there were enough whites, and wanted more than 3 linear grey switches.

Offline derezzed

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Re: Help Ducky design the next special edition
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 13 February 2015, 23:28:53 »

I really can't see the rationale behind this board


It seems like Ducky wants to build the world's most expensive Cherry MX switch tester.

Offline yuiop

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Re: Help Ducky design the next special edition
« Reply #9 on: Sat, 14 February 2015, 04:45:53 »

I really can't see the rationale behind this board


It seems like Ducky wants to build the world's most expensive Cherry MX switch tester.

That's what I was thinking.  This makes zero sense whatsoever.  Maybe some new to this hobby will think it's cool, I don't know.

I can get behind some combination of MX red alphas, MX black mods, some MX clears here and there (enter, space bar etc)

Offline Lastpilot

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Re: Help Ducky design the next special edition
« Reply #10 on: Sat, 14 February 2015, 10:35:35 »


I really can't see the rationale behind this board


It seems like Ducky wants to build the world's most expensive Cherry MX switch tester.

That's what I was thinking.  This makes zero sense whatsoever.  Maybe some new to this hobby will think it's cool, I don't know.

I can get behind some combination of MX red alphas, MX black mods, some MX clears here and there (enter, space bar etc)

+1 to all of this

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Re: Help Ducky design the next special edition
« Reply #11 on: Sat, 14 February 2015, 11:40:45 »
90740-0

For the lack of ergo clears, browns for the alphas and then clears for the mods so the larger keys feel heavier.

Tactile grey space bar to go with the tactile alphas.

Tactile grey for the Escape so you can hammer down on it with passion.

Tactile grey again for the win keys so they are heavy and not accidentally pressed.

Green switches in the lock keys (Caps Lock, Scroll Lock, and Num Lock)...basically if you hit the Caps Lock by accident you will hear a click if you don't notice the indicator LED or the case chaNGING WHEN YOU TYPE.

Green switches on the Enter and Return so you can happily mash it on input and receive a satisfactory click.

Blue switches for the numpad since it will help in data entry...you know you pressed a key when you hear the click.

Blue switches for the arrow keys too so there's a pleasant auditory response while you navigate.

White switches for Insert and Delete for the soft click feedback when actuating.

White switches too for Page Up and Down for the soft click feedback while navigating documents and then blue switches for Home and End so there's a bigger click when they are pressed.

Linear switches for the F keys in increasing weight...red for F1-F4, black for F5-F8, and linear grey for F9-F12.

Black switches for Print Screen, and Pause Break.

Lastly, white switches for the 4 app keys in the upper right.

Offline Matt3o

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Re: Help Ducky design the next special edition
« Reply #12 on: Sat, 14 February 2015, 13:27:33 »
we have some nice suggestions here. I'll try to post some other ideas tomorrow.

Offline Matt3o

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Re: Help Ducky design the next special edition
« Reply #13 on: Sun, 15 February 2015, 03:39:00 »
some more non-sense. I mixed up some of the suggestions


Offline Dihedral

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Re: Help Ducky design the next special edition
« Reply #14 on: Sun, 15 February 2015, 03:44:37 »
They should do a 62g ergo clear board and make the whole community love them forever.

Offline Oobly

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Re: Help Ducky design the next special edition
« Reply #15 on: Mon, 16 February 2015, 06:43:05 »
They should do a 62g ergo clear board and make the whole community love them forever.

^^This...

Or infiniti's suggested layout. It makes the most sense of all on this thread and is a layout I would actually find usable (and possibly even enjoyable?) for everyday tasks.
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Offline Dihedral

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Re: Help Ducky design the next special edition
« Reply #16 on: Mon, 16 February 2015, 06:47:08 »
They should do a 62g ergo clear board and make the whole community love them forever.

^^This...

Or infiniti's suggested layout. It makes the most sense of all on this thread and is a layout I would actually find usable (and possibly even enjoyable?) for everyday tasks.

I personally think that mixed-switch boards are a waste of time (2 switch types a board max, possibly a 3rd if just for one key), but Infiniti's layout is the most practical in the thread.

Offline Dihedral

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Re: Help Ducky design the next special edition
« Reply #17 on: Mon, 16 February 2015, 06:50:07 »
(Attachment Link)

For the lack of ergo clears, browns for the alphas and then clears for the mods so the larger keys feel heavier.

Tactile grey space bar to go with the tactile alphas.

Tactile grey for the Escape so you can hammer down on it with passion.

Tactile grey again for the win keys so they are heavy and not accidentally pressed.

Green switches in the lock keys (Caps Lock, Scroll Lock, and Num Lock)...basically if you hit the Caps Lock by accident you will hear a click if you don't notice the indicator LED or the case chaNGING WHEN YOU TYPE.

Green switches on the Enter and Return so you can happily mash it on input and receive a satisfactory click.

Blue switches for the numpad since it will help in data entry...you know you pressed a key when you hear the click.

Blue switches for the arrow keys too so there's a pleasant auditory response while you navigate.

White switches for Insert and Delete for the soft click feedback when actuating.

White switches too for Page Up and Down for the soft click feedback while navigating documents and then blue switches for Home and End so there's a bigger click when they are pressed.

Linear switches for the F keys in increasing weight...red for F1-F4, black for F5-F8, and linear grey for F9-F12.

Black switches for Print Screen, and Pause Break.

Lastly, white switches for the 4 app keys in the upper right.

Green for Home and End so they are roughly consistent with their neighbours. Also provides a handy way to compare the two switch types.

Offline infiniti

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Re: Help Ducky design the next special edition
« Reply #18 on: Mon, 16 February 2015, 09:42:50 »
(Attachment Link)

For the lack of ergo clears, browns for the alphas and then clears for the mods so the larger keys feel heavier.

Tactile grey space bar to go with the tactile alphas.

Tactile grey for the Escape so you can hammer down on it with passion.

Tactile grey again for the win keys so they are heavy and not accidentally pressed.

Green switches in the lock keys (Caps Lock, Scroll Lock, and Num Lock)...basically if you hit the Caps Lock by accident you will hear a click if you don't notice the indicator LED or the case chaNGING WHEN YOU TYPE.

Green switches on the Enter and Return so you can happily mash it on input and receive a satisfactory click.

Blue switches for the numpad since it will help in data entry...you know you pressed a key when you hear the click.

Blue switches for the arrow keys too so there's a pleasant auditory response while you navigate.

White switches for Insert and Delete for the soft click feedback when actuating.

White switches too for Page Up and Down for the soft click feedback while navigating documents and then blue switches for Home and End so there's a bigger click when they are pressed.

Linear switches for the F keys in increasing weight...red for F1-F4, black for F5-F8, and linear grey for F9-F12.

Black switches for Print Screen, and Pause Break.

Lastly, white switches for the 4 app keys in the upper right.

Green for Home and End so they are roughly consistent with their neighbours. Also provides a handy way to compare the two switch types.

Agreed.  It would also bring some balance to the sheer amount of blues in the numpad.

Offline mashby

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Re: Help Ducky design the next special edition
« Reply #19 on: Mon, 16 February 2015, 13:50:23 »
Didn't they do this already?

Seems like the same thing as the Ducky Shine II 78 Version to me. It was a neat board and MK.com sold out of them pretty quickly.

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: Help Ducky design the next special edition
« Reply #20 on: Mon, 16 February 2015, 14:07:42 »
Clears for everything except modifiers. Blacks for modifiers.
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Offline Matt3o

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Re: Help Ducky design the next special edition
« Reply #21 on: Tue, 17 February 2015, 01:50:16 »
Didn't they do this already?

Seems like the same thing as the Ducky Shine II 78 Version to me. It was a neat board and MK.com sold out of them pretty quickly.

it seems they want it back :)

Offline Nai_Calus

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Re: Help Ducky design the next special edition
« Reply #22 on: Mon, 23 February 2015, 17:31:30 »
Got linked here by the massdrop poll, I'll just copypasta my thoughts from there:

-----

So many of these have heavy switches on modifiers and light switches on the alphanumerics. *cringe*

This is what I'd do:

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/layouts/c90f936b8541f5c693c82ba3c239b3df

- Continuity of switch types: Each section of the board sticks with one kind of switch. Main is tactile for a compromise between typing feels and gaming; mid section is linears for those in need of smoothness for arrow keys and since those keys rarely need any kind of tactile feedback; numberpad is click switches since it's generally used mostly for data entry that needs to be accurate and the click feedback helps make sure you actually hit that key and didn't just glance off of it.

- Sane weighting: There's a reason for all those browns. All those keys are hit by your weak, overloaded pinky fingers. Stronger clears on the midsection and function keys likely to be hit by your much stronger inner fingers. Windows keys are clears to make them slightly harder to accidentally press. Super-heavy switches are saved for thumb and keys where you have to move your whole hand to reach them. Same thing with the numpad; green is on rarely used numlock and enter; whites on operators, light blues on the ones you'll be hitting the most.

I think this is a nice compromise for a multi-switch type board; giving some consideration to ergonomics and grouping similar keys together for non-jarring feel. Ctrl+alt+delete and alt codes are going to be the most common times you're using different switch types, and those don't come up that much and aren't done with the same hand.

-----

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Offline falkentyne

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Re: Help Ducky design the next special edition
« Reply #23 on: Sat, 28 February 2015, 00:05:50 »
So I've been asked to help Ducky making sense of their next special edition keyboard.

For unknown reasons they want to release a variable-switch board (switch color varies along the board). As far as I understand this is what they have in mind so far

Show Image


I really can't see the rationale behind this board, but if you really had to make something like this, how would you make it?

Let me start the dance with an alternative I laid out very quickly. I'll post more in the coming days but please let's try to give a sense to this thing and it might become a real board.

Show Image


Are those MX clears or tactile greys on the letters?    (on that prototype image in your second picture?)
If those are greys, then no, no, no :(  Clears?  Sure.
Greys are the heaviest key Cherry makes, and I could NOT even see them used for everyday typing.  I think mine, and many others' hands would fall off with tactile greys on the alphanumberics :/
Now, MX Clears for letters and browns for the shift/return/control/alt, etc, that works well, but I don't think browns on the mods/pinky keys is a great idea for a limited/rare keyboard.  As long as the spacebar is at least tactile (blue, green, tactile grey), that works.  But something heavier than brown.  But browns are just too common...as I wrote below, why not clears for the letters/numbers and milk whites!! (existing shine 69 scroll lock) for the shift/enter/caps/space?).  That would be a GREAT keyboard too.  Then put the tactile greys on the arrow keys so we can at least use them more :)

Personally I love the current shine 69.  Greens are awesome.  The shine 69 fire edition is the best keyboard I've ever used.  The only thing I would probably do differently is tactile greys or MX clears on the arrow keys and reds somewhere else, lol.
« Last Edit: Sat, 28 February 2015, 01:04:08 by falkentyne »

Offline derezzed

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Re: Help Ducky design the next special edition
« Reply #24 on: Sat, 28 February 2015, 00:34:36 »
Didn't they do this already?

Seems like the same thing as the Ducky Shine II 78 Version to me. It was a neat board and MK.com sold out of them pretty quickly.

Meanwhile, at Ducky Channel headquarters:






Offline falkentyne

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Re: Help Ducky design the next special edition
« Reply #25 on: Sat, 28 February 2015, 00:40:02 »
some more non-sense. I mixed up some of the suggestions

Show Image


I don't like the second image.
Greens are MUCH nicer than blues.  There are just too many keyboards with blues right now and blues tend to feel a bit mushy and inconsistent.  But I love blues on the shift (on both of my shine 69's, the shift key has the most satisfying, loudest and most tactile blue click of any of the other blues, besides enter; I'm guessing they tested that to make sure--blues tend to be a bit inconsistent).

I think the most sense of any 'rare' edition keyboard like this, is to use rare switches on the common keys, meaning, green/blue for letters and shift (like on the current 69, it makes full sense because greens and blues have the same stem and actuation distance, and being a gamer keyboard, you want lighter actuation keys on the pinky fingers! I think MANY people forget this!!), or MX clears (or milk whites, the one currently on scroll lock on the 69 fire) for the letters, and blues (clears if you used MX milk whites for the letters, so milk whites+Clear combo) on the shift/space/enter for the pinkies, and a MX green for the space bar, with MAYBE a option of tactile grey for the space bar as an alternate idea).

I'd have to make sure that putting a heavy key like a tactile grey on space would actually make sense.  That key is so heavy, I could see a lot of double taps get a bit tiring on that...

And of course, I'm assuming this would be called a "Shine 5 legendary edition."  It absolutely MUST have RGB cherry MX LED's!
« Last Edit: Sat, 28 February 2015, 01:00:34 by falkentyne »