[MOD] spiceBar's Silencing Mod on RF 104UG Hi-Pro w. modifications

[KeyCapsule]

* While flattening the landing pads, I realized there was such a thing as "too thin".
* As a result, I had to trim the corners of each pad.
* Be careful separating the PCB from the housing. Rubber dome and springs are a pain in the ass to line up.
* I did notice some inconsistencies at the end of the mod. I still had some clacking from the 104UG Hi-Pro even after the mod. Diagnostics of why that was the case were inconclusive.
* No clacking whatsoever of the 87U 55g. Very happy with the results.
* Overall, very satisfied with the results though it might seems pretty time consuming.
* No noticeable loss of travel distance in keys. Made sure to flatten thoroughly to avoid this.
* I have seen the mod with dental bands and silicon punched sheet. I chose this one as EK ships quickly to me as I live in SoCal.
* Though the mod made the boards sound and feel great, it just doesn't quite compare to the Type-S IMO. Realforce, we are waiting for case mounted sliders!
* Thanks to spiceBar his write-up.

[spiceBar]

Ever since I got my HHKB Type-S, I've been "chasing the dragon" for that smooth quiet buttery feel. I was told that a 55g would have a nice satisfying "punchiness" to it that I might enjoy. I decided to move forward with spiceBar's write-up as I didn't have access to a custom punch for silicon sheets.
I ordered the materials and read the guide thoroughly. I did, however, take some liberties along the way. Below is an album detailing the process:

http://imgur.com/a/JUwMi

I also put together a comparison video of the before and after mod:

Not a valid vimeo URL
Some final notes on the process:

* While flattening the landing pads, I realized there was such a thing as "too thin".
* As a result, I had to trim the corners of each pad.
* Be careful separating the PCB from the housing. Rubber dome and springs are a pain in the ass to line up.
* I did notice some inconsistencies at the end of the mod. I still had some clacking from the 104UG Hi-Pro even after the mod. Diagnostics of why that was the case were inconclusive.
* No clacking whatsoever of the 87U 55g. Very happy with the results.
* Overall, very satisfied with the results though it might seems pretty time consuming.
* No noticeable loss of travel distance in keys. Made sure to flatten thoroughly to avoid this.
* I have seen the mod with dental bands and silicon punched sheet. I chose this one as EK ships quickly to me as I live in SoCal.
* Though the mod made the boards sound and feel great, it just doesn't quite compare to the Type-S IMO. Realforce, we are waiting for case mounted sliders!
* Thanks to spiceBar his write-up.

From what I see, you did a great job.

The flat iron trick is nice, and I will have to try it.

I have the HHKB Type-S, and I find that the mod I have done on the RF87U, the FC660C and the Novatouch give them a very similar sound. Maybe it's all about the thickness of the pads. They must be thin enough so the tactility of the Topre switch is absolutely unchanged, but not too thin. If they are too thin, the sound dampening effect will not work very well. This is where experimenting with the pads can be interesting.

Trimming the pads was not really necessary. It will not hurt anyway, you have just been very meticulous, which is not a bad thing.

What I do is that I install the sliders one by one. After installing a slider, I check immediately if it moves smoothly in the housing. If it doesn't, I remove it and inspect the pad. If the pad is correctly sitting on the slider, then the corners may be rubbing inside the housing and so I cut them. But it happens seldom, maybe on 2 or 3 keys for a whole keyboard. Most of the times, just repositioning the pad is enough. Once a pad is correctly seated/trimmed, it stays that way. I was concerned that they wouldn't stay correctly seated, but it has actually never been a problem.

It is not necessary to cut and glue the pads on the stabilized keys sliders. I know I recommended to do it this way, but it's outdated.

For the stabilized keys, you just put the pads around the sliders as usual. The orientation of the pad will be different (the side of the pad will be parallel to the side of the slider), but that's all.

But here again, there is no problem with the way you did it. It just took a few more minutes, but it will work perfectly.

And you have posted a great video. That 87U was clicking like hell, now it's quiet! The 104UG definitely has a terrific look AND a classy sound now.

[KeyCapsule]

Thanks for the feedback spiceBar!

The mod was fun and an overall success. The most difficult part was determining the thickness in which the clacking would be nullified but still preserving the key travel distance. I think I succeeded for the most part but there were still a few keys on the Hi-Pro that continued to clack. The 55g turned out perfectly and it's now almost as good as my Type-S.

I have a white 660C on the way and will probably do the same mod to that as well. I wanted to thank you for your in-depth write-up. It was easy to follow and incredibly informative. Once I find the nerve to reopen the Hi-Pro, I'll try to fix the clacky keys again. For the time being, the thought of rubber does and springs flying around everywhere is not an experience I want to relive for a while. Thanks!

[Ngt]

Thanks for the feedback spiceBar!

The mod was fun and an overall success. The most difficult part was determining the thickness in which the clacking would be nullified but still preserving the key travel distance. I think I succeeded for the most part but there were still a few keys on the Hi-Pro that continued to clack. The 55g turned out perfectly and it's now almost as good as my Type-S.

I have a white 660C on the way and will probably do the same mod to that as well. I wanted to thank you for your in-depth write-up. It was easy to follow and incredibly informative. Once I find the nerve to reopen the Hi-Pro, I'll try to fix the clacky keys again. For the time being, the thought of rubber does and springs flying around everywhere is not an experience I want to relive for a while. Thanks!

Wasn't there a way to handle the keyboard so you can minimize the risks of the spring and rubber domes to fall out? I'm pretty sure I read this somewhere but I can't remember where. Perhaps it was someone that posted it in one of thread where Spice talked about his mod.

[spiceBar]

Thanks for the feedback spiceBar!

The mod was fun and an overall success. The most difficult part was determining the thickness in which the clacking would be nullified but still preserving the key travel distance. I think I succeeded for the most part but there were still a few keys on the Hi-Pro that continued to clack. The 55g turned out perfectly and it's now almost as good as my Type-S.

I have a white 660C on the way and will probably do the same mod to that as well. I wanted to thank you for your in-depth write-up. It was easy to follow and incredibly informative. Once I find the nerve to reopen the Hi-Pro, I'll try to fix the clacky keys again. For the time being, the thought of rubber does and springs flying around everywhere is not an experience I want to relive for a while. Thanks!

It is possible that the 104UG has keys that are more heavy that the RF87U for example. In this case, they gather more kinetic energy on their way back on the upstroke, and the slider hits the housing harder.

In this case, a slightly thicker landing pad will help.

For this reason, you should test the sliders while you are putting them back in the housings. Push them with a finger so you can hear if they still click on the upstroke. I have used this method and found out early a few pads that were not thick enough. It's better to find them out while you are re-inserting the sliders than after the keyboard has been completely reassembled.

But honestly I have done the same mistake myself: reassembling the keyboard just to discover that one switch has a problem, and that I must disassemble the thing again.

When things go wrong with a Topre board, there is a simple way to put everything back together:
- Take the plate (which holds all the switch housings) and turn it upside down. The sliders must already be in place.
- Try to find a way so the sliders do not touch the table. You need to put several objects to lift up the plate from the table.
- Remove the domes from the PCB and put them in the housings. Easy.
- Gather all the springs and put them in the domes. Easy, but be warned that the little bastards love to entangle themselves and it's easy to see one spring when there are actually two! You will always end up missing at least one spring, and don't worry, it's not lost. It is frolicking with one of its friends! Now you need to find in which dome they are doing their stuff and put an end to the party. Oh, and sometimes you find three in a dome - I guess it can be called an orgy then. I'm pretty sure some of these springs are male, some are female. That's a major design mistake of Topre. Or Topre realized a long time ago that some of them are homosexual anyway and that it's fine to let them have some fun... But I digress.
- Put the PCB back on the plate. Done. You can secure your win by putting back two or 3 screws. Then you can flip the assembly, plug the cable, and test the switches.

I have learned the hard way that trying to put the springs back under the domes is a lost fight, as soon as you have more than 3 or 4 or them trying to escape. Even just one, depending on its location, may drive you mad.

So don't fight. Cool down, take a deep breath, grab a beer, and use the method above.

I did not invent the method. Someone told me about it on this forum, but I do not remember who. Credit goes to him/her anyway.

Something I plan on doing in the future, but have not tried yet, is to glue the f***g domes to the PCB. I need to use a glue that can easily be washed away, maybe just some 3M paper glue stick. That would help tremendously if I need to reopen the keyboard later.

[Ngt]

Thanks for the feedback spiceBar!

The mod was fun and an overall success. The most difficult part was determining the thickness in which the clacking would be nullified but still preserving the key travel distance. I think I succeeded for the most part but there were still a few keys on the Hi-Pro that continued to clack. The 55g turned out perfectly and it's now almost as good as my Type-S.

I have a white 660C on the way and will probably do the same mod to that as well. I wanted to thank you for your in-depth write-up. It was easy to follow and incredibly informative. Once I find the nerve to reopen the Hi-Pro, I'll try to fix the clacky keys again. For the time being, the thought of rubber does and springs flying around everywhere is not an experience I want to relive for a while. Thanks!

It is possible that the 104UG has keys that are more heavy that the RF87U for example. In this case, they gather more kinetic energy on their way back on the upstroke, and the slider hits the housing harder.

In this case, a slightly thicker landing pad will help.

For this reason, you should test the sliders while you are putting them back in the housings. Push them with a finger so you can hear if they still click on the upstroke. I have used this method and found out early a few pads that were not thick enough. It's better to find them out while you are re-inserting the sliders than after the keyboard has been completely reassembled.

But honestly I have done the same mistake myself: reassembling the keyboard just to discover that one switch has a problem, and that I must disassemble the thing again.

When things go wrong with a Topre board, there is a simple way to put everything back together:
- Take the plate (which holds all the switch housings) and turn it upside down. The sliders must already be in place.
- Try to find a way so the sliders do not touch the table. You need to put several objects to lift up the plate from the table.
- Remove the domes from the PCB and put them in the housings. Easy.
- Gather all the springs and put them in the domes. Easy, but be warned that the little bastards love to entangle themselves and it's easy to see one spring when there are actually two! You will always end up missing at least one spring, and don't worry, it's not lost. It is frolicking with one of its friends! Now you need to find in which dome they are doing their stuff and put an end to the party. Oh, and sometimes you find three in a dome - I guess it can be called an orgy then. I'm pretty sure some of these springs are male, some are female. That's a major design mistake of Topre. Or Topre realized a long time ago that some of them are homosexual anyway and that it's fine to let them have some fun... But I digress.
- Put the PCB back on the plate. Done. You can secure your win by putting back two or 3 screws. Then you can flip the assembly, plug the cable, and test the switches.

I have learned the hard way that trying to put the springs back under the domes is a lost fight, as soon as you have more than 3 or 4 or them trying to escape. Even just one, depending on its location, may drive you mad.

So don't fight. Cool down, take a deep breath, grab a beer, and use the method above.

I did not invent the method. Someone told me about it on this forum, but I do not remember who. Credit goes to him/her anyway.

Something I plan on doing in the future, but have not tried yet, is to glue the f***g domes to the PCB. I need to use a glue that can easily be washed away, maybe just some 3M paper glue stick. That would help tremendously if I need to reopen the keyboard later.

If there are 3 springs doing some crazy stuff, we can call it a threesome.


Yeah that is the technic I was refering to in my last post. Thanks Spice.


However if you glue the domes you won't be able to perform a transplant if ever you want it at some point.

[spiceBar]

Thanks for the feedback spiceBar!

The mod was fun and an overall success. The most difficult part was determining the thickness in which the clacking would be nullified but still preserving the key travel distance. I think I succeeded for the most part but there were still a few keys on the Hi-Pro that continued to clack. The 55g turned out perfectly and it's now almost as good as my Type-S.

I have a white 660C on the way and will probably do the same mod to that as well. I wanted to thank you for your in-depth write-up. It was easy to follow and incredibly informative. Once I find the nerve to reopen the Hi-Pro, I'll try to fix the clacky keys again. For the time being, the thought of rubber does and springs flying around everywhere is not an experience I want to relive for a while. Thanks!

It is possible that the 104UG has keys that are more heavy that the RF87U for example. In this case, they gather more kinetic energy on their way back on the upstroke, and the slider hits the housing harder.

In this case, a slightly thicker landing pad will help.

For this reason, you should test the sliders while you are putting them back in the housings. Push them with a finger so you can hear if they still click on the upstroke. I have used this method and found out early a few pads that were not thick enough. It's better to find them out while you are re-inserting the sliders than after the keyboard has been completely reassembled.

But honestly I have done the same mistake myself: reassembling the keyboard just to discover that one switch has a problem, and that I must disassemble the thing again.

When things go wrong with a Topre board, there is a simple way to put everything back together:
- Take the plate (which holds all the switch housings) and turn it upside down. The sliders must already be in place.
- Try to find a way so the sliders do not touch the table. You need to put several objects to lift up the plate from the table.
- Remove the domes from the PCB and put them in the housings. Easy.
- Gather all the springs and put them in the domes. Easy, but be warned that the little bastards love to entangle themselves and it's easy to see one spring when there are actually two! You will always end up missing at least one spring, and don't worry, it's not lost. It is frolicking with one of its friends! Now you need to find in which dome they are doing their stuff and put an end to the party. Oh, and sometimes you find three in a dome - I guess it can be called an orgy then. I'm pretty sure some of these springs are male, some are female. That's a major design mistake of Topre. Or Topre realized a long time ago that some of them are homosexual anyway and that it's fine to let them have some fun... But I digress.
- Put the PCB back on the plate. Done. You can secure your win by putting back two or 3 screws. Then you can flip the assembly, plug the cable, and test the switches.

I have learned the hard way that trying to put the springs back under the domes is a lost fight, as soon as you have more than 3 or 4 or them trying to escape. Even just one, depending on its location, may drive you mad.

So don't fight. Cool down, take a deep breath, grab a beer, and use the method above.

I did not invent the method. Someone told me about it on this forum, but I do not remember who. Credit goes to him/her anyway.

Something I plan on doing in the future, but have not tried yet, is to glue the f***g domes to the PCB. I need to use a glue that can easily be washed away, maybe just some 3M paper glue stick. That would help tremendously if I need to reopen the keyboard later.

If there are 3 springs doing some crazy stuff, we can call it a threesome.


Yeah that is the technic I was refering to in my last post. Thanks Spice.


However if you glue the domes you won't be able to perform a transplant if ever you want it at some point.

Paper glue should be easy enough to remove without damaging anything.

We just need the domes to stay still when we remove the top plate. The top plate and the housing tend to pull a little bit on the domes, but they are not attached to them. So weak glue would be enough to avoid losing the springs every time you open the keyboard, something you have to do 2 or 3 times when modding, because the mod is never perfect at the first try, there is always something left to adjust.

[Ngt]

Thanks for the feedback spiceBar!

The mod was fun and an overall success. The most difficult part was determining the thickness in which the clacking would be nullified but still preserving the key travel distance. I think I succeeded for the most part but there were still a few keys on the Hi-Pro that continued to clack. The 55g turned out perfectly and it's now almost as good as my Type-S.

I have a white 660C on the way and will probably do the same mod to that as well. I wanted to thank you for your in-depth write-up. It was easy to follow and incredibly informative. Once I find the nerve to reopen the Hi-Pro, I'll try to fix the clacky keys again. For the time being, the thought of rubber does and springs flying around everywhere is not an experience I want to relive for a while. Thanks!

It is possible that the 104UG has keys that are more heavy that the RF87U for example. In this case, they gather more kinetic energy on their way back on the upstroke, and the slider hits the housing harder.

In this case, a slightly thicker landing pad will help.

For this reason, you should test the sliders while you are putting them back in the housings. Push them with a finger so you can hear if they still click on the upstroke. I have used this method and found out early a few pads that were not thick enough. It's better to find them out while you are re-inserting the sliders than after the keyboard has been completely reassembled.

But honestly I have done the same mistake myself: reassembling the keyboard just to discover that one switch has a problem, and that I must disassemble the thing again.

When things go wrong with a Topre board, there is a simple way to put everything back together:
- Take the plate (which holds all the switch housings) and turn it upside down. The sliders must already be in place.
- Try to find a way so the sliders do not touch the table. You need to put several objects to lift up the plate from the table.
- Remove the domes from the PCB and put them in the housings. Easy.
- Gather all the springs and put them in the domes. Easy, but be warned that the little bastards love to entangle themselves and it's easy to see one spring when there are actually two! You will always end up missing at least one spring, and don't worry, it's not lost. It is frolicking with one of its friends! Now you need to find in which dome they are doing their stuff and put an end to the party. Oh, and sometimes you find three in a dome - I guess it can be called an orgy then. I'm pretty sure some of these springs are male, some are female. That's a major design mistake of Topre. Or Topre realized a long time ago that some of them are homosexual anyway and that it's fine to let them have some fun... But I digress.
- Put the PCB back on the plate. Done. You can secure your win by putting back two or 3 screws. Then you can flip the assembly, plug the cable, and test the switches.

I have learned the hard way that trying to put the springs back under the domes is a lost fight, as soon as you have more than 3 or 4 or them trying to escape. Even just one, depending on its location, may drive you mad.

So don't fight. Cool down, take a deep breath, grab a beer, and use the method above.

I did not invent the method. Someone told me about it on this forum, but I do not remember who. Credit goes to him/her anyway.

Something I plan on doing in the future, but have not tried yet, is to glue the f***g domes to the PCB. I need to use a glue that can easily be washed away, maybe just some 3M paper glue stick. That would help tremendously if I need to reopen the keyboard later.

If there are 3 springs doing some crazy stuff, we can call it a threesome.


Yeah that is the technic I was refering to in my last post. Thanks Spice.


However if you glue the domes you won't be able to perform a transplant if ever you want it at some point.

Paper glue should be easy enough to remove without damaging anything.

We just need the domes to stay still when we remove the top plate. The top plate and the housing tend to pull a little bit on the domes, but they are not attached to them. So weak glue would be enough to avoid losing the springs every time you open the keyboard, something you have to do 2 or 3 times when modding, because the mod is never perfect at the first try, there is always something left to adjust.

Yeah, I bet there are things to better at the first try.


I ordered everything from EK last week. I hope it will get here soon so I can start doing it!

[strict]

Thanks for sharing! I got my soft landing pads from EK on Saturday so all this info is very helpful! I wasn't aware you could make the pads too thin so I'm glad you pointed that out 

[Ngt]

Thanks for sharing! I got my soft landing pads from EK on Saturday so all this info is very helpful! I wasn't aware you could make the pads too thin so I'm glad you pointed that out 

Well I guess it is hard to gauge when you should stop when you should continue.

[KeyCapsule]

Thanks guys.

A few things to note. I found the ideal amount of time to flatten the landing pads was roughly 45 seconds with a flat iron. If you need some reference, grab an index card or birthday card. Fold it onto itself. The width of that folded cardstock is going to be roughly the "sweet spot" for the landing pads. Hope that helps

[Ngt]

Thanks guys.

A few things to note. I found the ideal amount of time to flatten the landing pads was roughly 45 seconds with a flat iron. If you need some reference, grab an index card or birthday card. Fold it onto itself. The width of that folded cardstock is going to be roughly the "sweet spot" for the landing pads. Hope that helps

Cool thanks. I'll make sure to keep that in mind when I'll do it.

[spiceBar]

Thanks for sharing! I got my soft landing pads from EK on Saturday so all this info is very helpful! I wasn't aware you could make the pads too thin so I'm glad you pointed that out 

Well it's not like you can do it so easily that you won't notice.

If you use the manual method, as I did, it takes a lot of pressure on the iron (5-10kg), a lot of heat (mine was at max temp) and 20 to 30s to get to ideal width.

With KeyCapsule "industrial" method ( ) it's probably easier to overdo it.

It also depends on the weight of the keys I think.

Heavy keys will need slightly thicker landing pads, because you want more shock absorption. I would try a width of 0.20mm to 0.25mm (0.008 to 0.010inch) which is already a lot (too much and you start changing the switch's tactility). That's something I have learned from KeyCapsule's work. It's great to have feedback!

For "normal" keys (RF87, FC660C, HHKB...) I recommend a thickness of 0.15mm (0.006inch), which is pretty thin (thinner than a index card folded in two).

Visually, the thickness can be a little more than that, but remember that the slider will be pressing lightly on the pad when it is inside the switch, so everything will come into place and should leave 0.15mm (0.006inch) between the top of the slider and the switch housing.

I want to emphasize that the width must be reasonably consistent on a pad: if a side of the pad is thicker than the other, you must redo it. I think that with a "flat" iron (which is curved, actually), it may happen easily, so watch out.

My advice would be to go for the thinner landing pads first. Do a batch or 4, mod 4 keys, put the plate back into place, secure just 4 screws on every side of the plate, and see how it works (you need to put the 4 keycaps on, so the experiment takes their weight into account). If you still hear too much of a clicking on the upstroke, you can try slightly thicker landing pads. But compare with unmodded keys - you will never get a totally silent upstroke.

I know for sure that a thickness of 0.4mm (0.016inch) will have a noticeable impact on the feel of the switch. Some of the "snappiness" of the Topre switch will be missing. So don't come close to 0.3mm (0.012inch) without trying for real before you do the whole board.

I also know for sure that when you stay in the 0.15-0.20mm range (0.006-0.008inch), you are safe. The switch tactility will be unaffected. There is enough play on the top of the unmodded switches to allow for this.

[Ngt]

Thanks for sharing! I got my soft landing pads from EK on Saturday so all this info is very helpful! I wasn't aware you could make the pads too thin so I'm glad you pointed that out 

Well it's not like you can do it so easily that you won't notice.

If you use the manual method, as I did, it takes a lot of pressure on the iron (5-10kg), a lot of heat (mine was at max temp) and 20 to 30s to get to ideal width.

With KeyCapsule "industrial" method ( ) it's probably easier to overdo it.

It also depends on the weight of the keys I think.

Heavy keys will need slightly thicker landing pads, because you want more shock absorption. I would try a width of 0.20mm to 0.25mm (0.008 to 0.010inch) which is already a lot (too much and you start changing the switch's tactility). That's something I have learned from KeyCapsule's work. It's great to have feedback!

For "normal" keys (RF87, FC660C, HHKB...) I recommend a thickness of 0.15mm (0.006inch), which is pretty thin (thinner than a index card folded in two).

Visually, the thickness can be a little more than that, but remember that the slider will be pressing lightly on the pad when it is inside the switch, so everything will come into place and should leave 0.15mm (0.006inch) between the top of the slider and the switch housing.

I want to emphasize that the width must be reasonably consistent on a pad: if a side of the pad is thicker than the other, you must redo it. I think that with a "flat" iron (which is curved, actually), it may happen easily, so watch out.

My advice would be to go for the thinner landing pads first. Do a batch or 4, mod 4 keys, put the plate back into place, secure just 4 screws on every side of the plate, and see how it works (you need to put the 4 keycaps on, so the experiment takes their weight into account). If you still hear too much of a clicking on the upstroke, you can try slightly thicker landing pads. But compare with unmodded keys - you will never get a totally silent upstroke.

I know for sure that a thickness of 0.4mm (0.016inch) will have a noticeable impact on the feel of the switch. Some of the "snappiness" of the Topre switch will be missing. So don't come close to 0.3mm (0.012inch) without trying for real before you do the whole board.

I also know for sure that when you stay in the 0.15-0.20mm range (0.006-0.008inch), you are safe. The switch tactility will be unaffected. There is enough play on the top of the unmodded switches to allow for this.

Thanks for the intel. I received my shipment from EK this morning so I might give it a run during the week or weekend.