TKL Dilemma: KUL ES-87 vs Varmilo VA87M vs KBT Race 2 or none of the above

[derezzed]

I want to get a TKL to replace my work board, but I'm having trouble deciding between boards. 

I like Cherry MX Browns (my current home board) but they feel just a touch on the light side.  I like Cherry MX Blues but they are too noisy and I don't want to desolder a new board just to experiment with modding switches.  I find that Cherry MX Blacks are too heavy for my taste.  I like NMB Hi-Tek black tactile switches (my current work board, but it's too big).  I have a budget of around $130.

There are multiple boards that have my eye right now.  The Varmilo is available on MassDrop.  It has PBT keycaps but I would have to get it with Cherry MX Browns.  Then there is the KUL ES-87.  I want to get a board with Cherry MX Clears but I don't know if they will be too heavy for me (kind of hard to know just from using a switch tester) and the keycaps are thin ABS and I don't want to drop more money on replacement keycaps right now.  Then there is the KBT Race 2 with PBT keycaps, fully programmable, and more compact form factor, but it looks like I would have to get Cherry MX Browns for that board or get Cherry MX Blues and mod the switches. 

I also love split spacebars and something like Dihedral's 79 design really appeals to me but I have no idea when something like that will be available and I suspect the cost would be way outside my budget. 

Or does anyone know if there's something better coming out in the near future?

Recommendations (or reference to a thread that already answers this question)  would be greatly appreciated.  I've seen several very positive reviews for the KUL ES-87 and several mostly positive reviews for the Race 2.  I have not seen any reviews for the Varmilo board yet.  Is there a custom board that I can build for around $150 that has a split space bar layout?

[Puddsy]

i don't like MX browns, i think they're like bad MX reds. MX clears are much better, though, i love them.

the KUL is the best of this bunch by far, probably the best keyboard i own

[Novus]

I doubt anybody can really help you.

I don't think anybody actually owns both a Kul and Varmilo

[Oobly]

Easy choice: KûL ES-87 with Clears.

Clears are more tactile and heavier than Browns, but they have a different spring to the Blacks. It has a steeper force curve, so they start out lighter than Blacks and only a little heavier than Browns in the first part of the stroke, then after the bump they become stronger. It's the best stock MX switch by far, IMHO.

Also, the Varmilo and KûL are probably similar in terms of build quality and as you say, it comes with PBT caps, but keycaps are a lot easier to change than switches and there are some awesome sets available in Group Buys and Classifieds. Also, you can buy Leopold PBT sets like those that Varmilo use from ebay.

[Novus]

Or you could just buy a 750 which comes with a set of Leopold PBTs 

On that note I really need to try a Kul one day.

[ctm]

If you can wait for some time, KBP is going to introduce a 80% keyboard with Matias switches. The PCB will also be compatible with Cherry MX switches. Personally I like Matias quiet switches better than Cherry MX browns and Matias clicky switches better than Cherry MX blues.

[dante]

I put my KUL up for sale after around ... 3 minutes(?)

The MX Reds in that board were DJ level scratchy.  (ie: Put the needle on the record!)

[Novus]

I put my KUL up for sale after around ... 3 minutes(?)

The MX Reds in that board were DJ level scratchy.  (ie: Put the needle on the record!)

Was that specific to kul or just your experience with MX reds in general. Just trying to understand the KUL hypetrain.

[dante]

I put my KUL up for sale after around ... 3 minutes(?)

The MX Reds in that board were DJ level scratchy.  (ie: Put the needle on the record!)

Was that specific to kul or just your experience with MX reds in general. Just trying to understand the KUL hypetrain.

I don't remember who but someone else had issues with their KUL having scratchy Reds.

The smoothest Reds in a stock board I've ever tried were on a Corsair K65.  And it wasn't just one board - but multiples.

After trying Gateron's I've sworn off MX Linears.  If Cherry is too lazy to QC, I'm too lazy to buy their product.

[sorijealut]

I put my KUL up for sale after around ... 3 minutes(?)

The MX Reds in that board were DJ level scratchy.  (ie: Put the needle on the record!)

Was that specific to kul or just your experience with MX reds in general. Just trying to understand the KUL hypetrain.

I don't remember who but someone else had issues with their KUL having scratchy Reds.

The smoothest Reds in a stock board I've ever tried were on a Corsair K65.  And it wasn't just one board - but multiples.

After trying Gateron's I've sworn off MX Linears.  If Cherry is too lazy to QC, I'm too lazy to buy their product.

Yep, that would be me. I do not mind DJ Scratch, but yeah, lots of spring noise and a bit stiffer than what I saw on a Filco.

[Puddsy]

KUL got a crappy batch of reds in the first run of their boards. The reds in my filco are way smoother

I think the more recent run of boards has proven better

[brimborion]

I am waiting for the KBP v80 MTS after being impressed with the v60 with MTS quiet keys. Now I want a TKL with loud clicky Matias.

I really like the crisp look of the dyesub top printed PBT keys on the Varmilo though.

[sorijealut]

The KUL was overall quieter than a Filco though, since not bottoming out on it was easier.

Which is why I chose it. On a side note, my space bar is making some noise now and I need to make it quieter.

[katushkin]

Get a Keycool 87. Kailh switches are better than you think, and Keycool's build quality is still excellent even if they have moved away from Cherry.

[aref]

KUL got a crappy batch of reds in the first run of their boards. The reds in my filco are way smoother

I think the more recent run of boards has proven better

I have a Corsair K65/MX Reds; and it's the smoothest MX Red keyboard I've owned (CMQFR/Filco M2).

Back to KUL; the MX Black switches on the one I had felt a bit gritty to me. I had an older Filco with MX Blacks; the switches felt smooth as Reds but with more resistance, as MX Blacks should. I didn't return the KUL because of the switches, I returned it because it randomly inserted an extra space with a single strike of the space bar.

[derezzed]

I am waiting for the KBP v80 MTS after being impressed with the v60 with MTS quiet keys. Now I want a TKL with loud clicky Matias.

I really like the crisp look of the dyesub top printed PBT keys on the Varmilo though.

If you can wait for some time, KBP is going to introduce a 80% keyboard with Matias switches. The PCB will also be compatible with Cherry MX switches. Personally I like Matias quiet switches better than Cherry MX browns and Matias clicky switches better than Cherry MX blues.

If I buy a Matias Alps board, it's going to be the Matias Ergo Pro.  But that brings my budget up to $200.  If I'm going to shoot for that price range, can anyone tell me if I'm better off spending the money on a Kinesis Advantage or an ErgoDox?

For everyone who's brought up the issue that KUL's had with MX Red (and one with MX Black),  do you know if they've had similar issues with MX Clears?  It's the KUL with Cherry MX Clears that I'm interested in and I haven't seen anything but positive reviews for it.  Right now, the KUL is still the likeliest choice for my next keyboard.