Author Topic: Quality Control?  (Read 16170 times)

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Offline jeffsui

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 14
Quality Control?
« on: Fri, 20 February 2015, 18:24:19 »
Hey Matias / Community,

I wanted to know how common quality issues are with the Matias products.  Either I had some very bad luck or the QC of the products isn't up to snuff.  I recently purchased a Laptop Pro and after typing on I noticed that it had a very strange problem.  The comma sometimes would type , sometimes ,, and other times ,,,.  I contacted customer service who first suggested I spray compressed air and do some funky stuff with a business card.  When neither of these things worked they happily sent me a new keyboard.  You can see a video of the problem keyboard here:

I received my new keyboard today and as far as I can tell functionally it works perfectly, however the LED light seems to be messed up as it shows through the side not the top of the keyboard like its supposed to. 

Both these keyboards have vastly different serial numbers:
XXXXXXXXXL &  FKXXX XXXXXXXXL

Which makes me wonder if they were built in different factories?  Is my experience unique or have other people run into QC issues with Matias products? 

Everything aside, these are WONDERFUL switches I have to say and a pleasure to type on...

:)

Offline saturnotaku

  • Posts: 783
  • Location: The 'burbs, IL USA
Re: Quality Control?
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 20 February 2015, 20:22:10 »
I had the exact same problem with the exact same keyboard (except it was the X key that was doing what yours did) and got the exact same suggestion on how to deal with it. I ended up returning it to the place I bought it from and got a refund. It was not only because of the defective key but also because, while the switches felt good, the rest of the keyboard had a really cheap build quality to it.

Now that I'm reading this, it certainly looks like there is some kind of quality control problem here.

Offline Shayde

  • Posts: 100
  • Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Re: Quality Control?
« Reply #2 on: Sun, 22 February 2015, 15:29:32 »
Yes, my Tactile Mini only lasted a few months before breaking a USB socket (see my earlier post).  But that's more of a design flaw than a QC issue I think.
Collector-of-switches.  Cherry: red, brown, blue, black, grey (linear), green.  Alps: simp./comp. white, comp. blue, Matias.  NMB: white, black.  Futaba: Cherry stem.  Omron: yellow.  Topre: 45g  Various: Apple II+, TRS80 Model 1, C64, Acorn Electron, ZX81 (lol!).

Offline omnigeek

  • Posts: 10
Re: Quality Control?
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 24 April 2015, 01:01:42 »
I haven't used the Matias keyboards, but I've installed two batches of Matias switches (the clickies on an Omnikey Ultra and the quiets on an Omnikey 102).  Overall they've been great so far (it's been 6+ months I've been using them).  I might have had one switch with a problem out of the set of quiet ones, but I don't remember what issue it had.  On the Ultra with the clickies, which I use 8+ hours a day, I had the Tab switch go bad and so swapped that out, and several keys have developed a little bit of keybounce which is what you described with the comma (,) key on yours.  I'm going to swap those switches out the next chance I get.  Maybe that's to be expected on any keyboard?  My previous work keyboard was a Das S (using Cherry blues) and that developed bad keybounce on a bunch of keys within just a few months.  I don't know if that adds up to a quality control problem or not, but it's my 2c anyway :-)
Northgate Omnikey Ultra rebuilt w/Matias clickies | Northgate Omnikey 102 | Avant Stellar | [/url]Visit the Typing Test and try!

Offline Xaltotun

  • Posts: 1
Re: Quality Control?
« Reply #4 on: Thu, 30 April 2015, 19:47:13 »
Mine Quiet Mini Broke the USB too! >:D I'm using one old Logitech membrane keyboard. I'm sad, very sad  :'(

Offline BucklingSpring

  • Posts: 2131
Re: Quality Control?
« Reply #5 on: Sat, 02 May 2015, 06:57:27 »
I have a QP and a mini QP and never had any issues with them.

Have any of you guys with problems spoke to Matias customer service?
They take good care of people when it comes to product issues.
In memory of smallfry 1996-2013
Boards I own, click ->
More
Ducky x2 (9008G2 Pro PBT/MX Green and Mini MX Red), Matias x2 (QP and Mini QP Dampened ALPS), Topre RealForce x4 (87U 55g/Digilog case, 103U-UW & 104UG High-Profile x2), Filco Majestouch x2 (TKL MX Blue & V2 AI 104 MX Blue), IBM-M x2 (BS & RD), Unicomp-M x5 (BS black on black x2, BS Ivory x2, QT Ultra-Classic), Deck x4 (Legend MX Black & MX Clear, Hassium & Francium w/ MX Brown), DAS III (MX Blue), KBT Pure Pro 60% (MX Red), NMB-RT8256CW+ x2 (black space invader), XArmor U9BL-S (MX Brown) given for free to someone I hate, CM X2 (Trigger/MX Green + Storm TKL/NovaTouch), TVS GOLD (MX Blue) and a many many more (NMB, DELL, MS, ATT, KeyTronic, Etc...)

Offline False_Dmitry_II

  • Posts: 1753
Re: Quality Control?
« Reply #6 on: Thu, 07 May 2015, 21:23:23 »
I rotate in my Dell that I replaced the worthless black alps with clicky Matias every now and again and it is always fine.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Ben Franklin (11 Nov. 1755)

Offline opensecret

  • Posts: 120
  • 公开的秘密
Re: Quality Control?
« Reply #7 on: Tue, 19 May 2015, 14:30:10 »
I have a QP and a mini QP and never had any issues with them.

Have any of you guys with problems spoke to Matias customer service?
They take good care of people when it comes to product issues.

I'm hoping you're right about customer care, because my 11-month-old, lightly-used Mini Quiet Pro developed what appears to be the same problem Shayde reported a few months ago -- the usb port came loose and fell inside the keyboard.  From Shayde's posts, it doesn't look to be an easy fix.   

I only use the board at our summer cabin, and it went south this past weekend.    I filled out a trouble report on the Matias website, and hope I'll hear soon.
IBM Model M |Matias Mini Quiet Pro|Plum 84EC-S|RealForce 103U-UW & 87U-UW|Omnikey Ultra T| 2 Omnikey Ultras| WASD V2| Xmit Hall Effect|

Offline opensecret

  • Posts: 120
  • 公开的秘密
Re: Quality Control?
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 04 June 2015, 14:45:02 »
A quick update: Matias promptly replaced my non-functioning keyboard with a new one, so I'd give them a high rating for customer service. :thumb:
IBM Model M |Matias Mini Quiet Pro|Plum 84EC-S|RealForce 103U-UW & 87U-UW|Omnikey Ultra T| 2 Omnikey Ultras| WASD V2| Xmit Hall Effect|

Offline urlwolf

  • Posts: 152
Re: Quality Control?
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 08 January 2016, 05:23:13 »
I had the same problem with the ErgoPro. One key was not working. They sent a replacement, but this one had a different non-working key. They ended up offering a refund, which I still haven't received. They most definitely have a QC problem. Which is a pity because the keyboards are really nice.
keyboards: Cherry G80-3494- cherry reds | filco majestytouch - cherry browns | kinesis contour - cherry browns | cherry G80 - 1800 cherry blacks.
mice: filco touchpad | logitech G9x | wowpen joy | kensington orbit trackball | zalman fpsgun | intellimouse v1 | logitech rx1500

Offline macdude22

  • Posts: 5
Re: Quality Control?
« Reply #10 on: Thu, 14 January 2016, 08:33:19 »
My R key started doing the triple type but it was out side the warranty period. Matias doesn't offer repair services (I asked). I'm planning on replacing the switch someday. Glad to hear I'm not the only one bitten by the triple type key issue. This was on a Laptop Pro. My Wired Quiet board at home has had no issues.

Offline jacobolus

  • Posts: 4306
  • Location: San Francisco, CA
Re: Quality Control?
« Reply #11 on: Sat, 16 January 2016, 03:19:21 »
It’s too bad soldering gear and experience isn’t a bit more widespread. Opening up the keyboard and replacing one bum switch only takes a few minutes with the right tools.

Offline urlwolf

  • Posts: 152
Re: Quality Control?
« Reply #12 on: Tue, 26 January 2016, 07:23:24 »
It's not about soldering skill. These switches break way too easily, I just don't feel comfortable. What if I'm traveling and I need the keyboard to work the entire trip?

A real pity, because they are my favorite switch. I may even buy it again, but knowing that they break really easily.
keyboards: Cherry G80-3494- cherry reds | filco majestytouch - cherry browns | kinesis contour - cherry browns | cherry G80 - 1800 cherry blacks.
mice: filco touchpad | logitech G9x | wowpen joy | kensington orbit trackball | zalman fpsgun | intellimouse v1 | logitech rx1500

Offline OverKill

  • Posts: 110
  • Location: Arizona, USA
Re: Quality Control?
« Reply #13 on: Fri, 05 February 2016, 16:53:31 »
Like jacobolus stated it is really easy to replace switches on these. I had this issue with my E key when I got this board (a year or so ago) and I replaced the switch in like 20 mins. Now recently I started to see the issue with my A key and spacebar..yea that is really annoying.. today I decided to take action because I don't have time to change out 2 of the switches. I took the keycaps off and I took a can of air and depressed the switch with my finger while blowing it in around the edges. Make sure you don't get any of the liquid coming out but when I put the keycaps back on the switches are fine now. no more double a or double space.

Offline Quackles

  • Posts: 77
  • Location: Sydney
Re: Quality Control?
« Reply #14 on: Sat, 06 February 2016, 00:20:23 »
I'd say their quality control isn't great. I've had two Matias Quiet Click Pro's in the last 2 months and both have had problems which I had to return. So I've opted not to go with them again.

However, I can say their customer service is excellent. As they helped me return the second one as the seller I bought it from would refuse the return and suggested nothing was wrong.

Offline urlwolf

  • Posts: 152
Re: Quality Control?
« Reply #15 on: Wed, 17 February 2016, 06:12:17 »
Now I'm getting repeated triggers on individual keypresses.  :mad:
The thing is in 10 years using cherry I've never ever had a single problem. And some keyboards I bought were disgusting. Filled with hair and dust to the brim.

Enter matias (ALPS?) switches. All kinds of problems with new keyboards. I really like their layout and switch, but ... can they not make a keyboard that actually work? I'm torn. I dunno if I should buy again. It'd have to be a small pile of them. Assume that they will break, and live with it. If matias is reading this forum, they should definitely speak up. I suggested they use better shipping boxes, but never got a response. Anyone knows of a good solution? Happy with hacks too.
keyboards: Cherry G80-3494- cherry reds | filco majestytouch - cherry browns | kinesis contour - cherry browns | cherry G80 - 1800 cherry blacks.
mice: filco touchpad | logitech G9x | wowpen joy | kensington orbit trackball | zalman fpsgun | intellimouse v1 | logitech rx1500

Offline urlwolf

  • Posts: 152
Re: Quality Control?
« Reply #16 on: Wed, 17 February 2016, 08:04:50 »
Does anyone know of a keyboard with similar layout to the ergopro but better quality? I know, hard question.
keyboards: Cherry G80-3494- cherry reds | filco majestytouch - cherry browns | kinesis contour - cherry browns | cherry G80 - 1800 cherry blacks.
mice: filco touchpad | logitech G9x | wowpen joy | kensington orbit trackball | zalman fpsgun | intellimouse v1 | logitech rx1500

Offline urlwolf

  • Posts: 152
Re: Quality Control?
« Reply #17 on: Wed, 17 February 2016, 15:17:23 »
Removed the caps. Nothing looks broken. Used compressed air on all parts of the switch. I got it working again for a few seconds, then it died again. This may discard failure in the contacts. But I still haven't fixed it. Typing this on cherry blues. Not the same thing :(
keyboards: Cherry G80-3494- cherry reds | filco majestytouch - cherry browns | kinesis contour - cherry browns | cherry G80 - 1800 cherry blacks.
mice: filco touchpad | logitech G9x | wowpen joy | kensington orbit trackball | zalman fpsgun | intellimouse v1 | logitech rx1500

Offline jacobolus

  • Posts: 4306
  • Location: San Francisco, CA
Re: Quality Control?
« Reply #18 on: Thu, 18 February 2016, 05:11:27 »
Does anyone know of a keyboard with similar layout to the ergopro but better quality?
“Better quality” is a bit subjective.

The two similar keyboards from the mid-1990s are the Cherry G80-5000 and the IBM Model M15. You can find either one on ebay from time to time for $500–$1,000.

If it’s just the switch contacts you’re having trouble with, and you don’t trust Matias switches, you could pay someone to desolder the Matias switches and solder in “complicated” Alps switches from the late 80s / early 90s, which are pcb/plate/keycap compatible with Matias switches, but use a fancier switch construction which has very clean electrical signal.

The more obvious thing you should do is contact Matias customer support. They’re generally very friendly and accommodating. (Edit: okay, I see your other post, where you apparently did do that.)
« Last Edit: Thu, 18 February 2016, 05:16:29 by jacobolus »

Offline urlwolf

  • Posts: 152
Re: Quality Control?
« Reply #19 on: Sun, 08 May 2016, 07:32:27 »
Does anyone know if the new low force switches have the same problem(double trigger, some keys just not triggering)?
keyboards: Cherry G80-3494- cherry reds | filco majestytouch - cherry browns | kinesis contour - cherry browns | cherry G80 - 1800 cherry blacks.
mice: filco touchpad | logitech G9x | wowpen joy | kensington orbit trackball | zalman fpsgun | intellimouse v1 | logitech rx1500

Offline Screwdriver

  • Posts: 63
Re: Quality Control?
« Reply #20 on: Wed, 27 July 2016, 21:54:57 »
Are the problems with double keying an issue with the switches or the boards? I was looking at getting a Matias KB, but am seeing a ton of horrible reviews. I mainly would like to try a Matias ALPS switch......
Realforce 87U/55g, Deck Hassium Pro-MX Browns, MK Disco TKL - KBT Browns, Code 87-MX Clears, KUL-87 MX Reds.

Offline doctorpiorno

  • Posts: 20
Re: Quality Control?
« Reply #21 on: Tue, 16 August 2016, 13:16:50 »
Unfortunately, I too seem to be having issues with my Ergo Pro. In my case, it's the space bar that's the problem: it's suddenly started to send a steady stream of blank spaces even when the key is not depressed, as if the switch had become stuck in the "down" position. Needless to say, it's quite unusable in this state, which is downright vexing. Niggles aside (and there were some, *cough* numlock key *cough*), it remains the closest thing to an M15 that's still being manufactured, and it's sad to see it crippled by reliability issues.

I have contacted Matias support, but I fear I'm screwed: the board is out of warranty by a few months, and seeing as I'm based in Spain, postage to Canada and back may cost a small fortune — on top of the cost of repairs and the potential circus of having to go through customs again, which proved very expensive and infuriating last time.

Waiting on the response from Matias support now... Fingers crossed!

Offline Reloaded

  • Posts: 3
Re: Quality Control?
« Reply #22 on: Wed, 17 August 2016, 08:16:50 »
I have the same keyboard and the same problem with the space key, although it's not happening that frequently for me.

Did you receive a response already? Located in Germany, so I might run into the same trouble

Offline Hypersphere

  • Posts: 1849
  • Location: USA
Re: Quality Control?
« Reply #23 on: Wed, 17 August 2016, 08:42:54 »
I have 3 KBP V60 Matias-switch boards, 2 with Click and 1 with Quiet switches. I bought these some time ago, and they have been excellent keyboards. However, I heard that there have been problems with Matias switches made this year because of QC issues in the manufacturing plant in China. I hope that they get the situation resolved soon, because Matias switches are the only way to get Alps-like switches in an off-the-shelf contemporary keyboard.

Offline frankdylan7

  • Posts: 0
Re: Quality Control?
« Reply #24 on: Fri, 26 August 2016, 16:28:02 »
Just to contribute my experience: I bought the Ergo Pro Mac keyboard last year in November. Worrked fine for a couple months, then I started having trouble with the "c" key and a few otherr rkeys. So I had the left side replaced. It had the exact same issue, but with the "r" key. So now I'm getting the left side replaced again, but they said it will take 3-4 weeks before I receive it since they are backlogged.

So as far as I can tell, tthey are having majorr quality controrl issues. (Just look at this paragraph I typed and see all the mistypes. Those are not due to me missing keys, but the keyboard sending wrong or duplicate strokes.)

Unforrtunately, while I love the keyboarrd, I won't be buying from them again. Spending nearly $200 for a keyboard and having these kinds of basic quality issues is completely unacceptable. They've lost me forever, regardless of their customer service.

Offline greenone

  • Posts: 2
Re: Quality Control?
« Reply #25 on: Sat, 27 August 2016, 10:21:10 »
Hi all,

I also had a problem with a key of the Laptop Pro.
J in my case. I not only repeated, but also wasn't fitting exactly right.

I bougth in Jan 2016, and got the replacement now in Aug 2016. Barbara was very helpful.

What I find very weird is tha keyboard sound differently!
Any idea why? Which one is suppose to be the "right" sound?

I made this video with the problem of the keyboard and the different in sound.

« Last Edit: Sat, 27 August 2016, 10:23:34 by greenone »

Offline doctorpiorno

  • Posts: 20
Re: Quality Control?
« Reply #26 on: Thu, 29 September 2016, 16:44:01 »
I have the same keyboard and the same problem with the space key, although it's not happening that frequently for me.

Did you receive a response already? Located in Germany, so I might run into the same trouble

Mine is pretty much unusable, I'm afraid. It starts sending spaces the second I plug it in. Hope yours doesn't get as bad. :(

I did receive a response from Barbara, but it boils down to Matias not having repair facilities anywhere. I guess they will just send a replacement if the keyboard is still under warranty, but other than that the only option seems to be to buy a new keyboard or attempt a home repair.

To their credit, they did offer to send me a few replacement switches to try the latter, which I accepted and I'm hoping to receive soon. Given my total lack of experience with a soldering iron, I don't like my chances of being able to replace the dodgy switch myself, but I hope to be able to find someone locally to try it for me. Will let you know how that goes!


Offline rtpguy

  • Posts: 27
Re: Quality Control?
« Reply #27 on: Sun, 09 October 2016, 22:20:39 »
My Ergo Pro lasted around 6 weeks of use at work and now the F key is doubling and tripling.
Unacceptable for $30, let alone $200.
As this seems a common enough occurrence, I don't see how replacements will do more than delay the loss of $200+, while my Unicornp and others keep going.

Poor soldering or???

Online zslane

  • Posts: 1262
  • Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Re: Quality Control?
« Reply #28 on: Sun, 09 October 2016, 22:53:50 »
Could it be the switch itself rather than the keyboard assembly? The spacebar on my brand new KBP V60 mini sends double and triple spaces with a single press of the key. So in my case it isn't a Matias keyboard but a board full of Matias switches, and yet I have a similar problem with spurious keypress "events" being detected and/or sent out.

Offline Hypersphere

  • Posts: 1849
  • Location: USA
Re: Quality Control?
« Reply #29 on: Mon, 10 October 2016, 08:48:42 »
All indications point to defects in the Matias switches themselves. I've heard that Matias is aware of the issue and that they are working hard to correct the problem. I hope that they will make an announcement so that customers will know when they can expect to find good switches for custom builds or off-the-shelf keyboards.


Offline mushman

  • Posts: 41
Re: Quality Control?
« Reply #30 on: Mon, 10 October 2016, 09:21:42 »
To be fair to consumers there were many negative reviews regarding chattering, stuck keys, and USB ports failing in the last few years - not just this year.

Offline rtpguy

  • Posts: 27
Re: Quality Control?
« Reply #31 on: Fri, 14 October 2016, 19:32:52 »
All indications point to defects in the Matias switches themselves. I've heard that Matias is aware of the issue and that they are working hard to correct the problem. I hope that they will make an announcement so that customers will know when they can expect to find good switches for custom builds or off-the-shelf keyboards.

How will that help those with issues where replacements see the same issue until warrantee runs out, as this seems to be a common 'enough' occurrence?

I had a Matias Tactile Pro or similar for my home office a while back..don't recall the exact failure but it wasn't a $30 keyboard...was OK overall then died 6 months or so later.  I moved on with a Unicomp/Model M repro which went on for years and years. 


Offline rtpguy

  • Posts: 27
Re: Quality Control?
« Reply #32 on: Fri, 14 October 2016, 19:36:52 »
To be fair to consumers there were many negative reviews regarding chattering, stuck keys, and USB ports failing in the last few years - not just this year.

For the Ergo Pro, I think I saw a single mention of it when I'd ordered mine, and was hoping it was a one-off 'new product birthing pain' sort of thing, especially for a $200 keyboard. 
This is a serious shame, as I like the design and it seems to be the only game in town for a 87/TKL-ish split keyboard but it's false economy to spend that kind of cash, have to replace it under warrantee...until the warrantee runs out.  Not acceptable for me at work nor at home. 

Hoping it's resolved but this seems to be a long-term running issue now that I've seen more than a few similar posts on the same issue, which isn't giving me warm and fuzzies.

Offline nemui

  • Posts: 8
Re: Quality Control?
« Reply #33 on: Sat, 05 November 2016, 12:44:02 »
My Ergo Pro also acts up once in a while. Especially the 3, W, and A keys. They tend to trigger 2 or 3 times even though I only press them once. I emailed Matias about it and they asked me to stick a business card under the keycap and then press the key down while the card is there. Something about a possible stem misalignment problem. Didn't work but it thought the suggestion might be useful for someone out there.

Though, I accidentally solved the problem with my 3 key one day when I was trying to use a key puller to pull the cap out...and ended up pulling the entire switch out instead. :eek: Dat ALPS stem...

I very calmly put the switch right back in...and now my 3 key doesn't do double or triple takes anymore.

No, I'm not going to try to do the same for the W key.  :))

ALso, please DO NOT TRY THAT with your Ergo Pro. :))

As for the "permanent pressed" key problem, it seems to be an issue mostly with the bottom part of the board. Besides spacebar, I sometimes get my SHIFT, ALT, or CTRL keys being permanently pressed for some reason. Whenever this happens, I just cycle through pressing the CTRL, WIN, and ALT keys on both left and right boards for a few times. Have never not solved the problem with this method before. Hope it helps for someone out there too.

Offline Hypersphere

  • Posts: 1849
  • Location: USA
Re: Quality Control?
« Reply #34 on: Sat, 05 November 2016, 12:52:26 »
I currently have 4 KBP V60MTS boards (three with Matias Clicks, one with Matias Quiet). I previously had a V60MTS with Matias Quiet Linears, but I sold it because I am not fond of linear switches.

These boards are between one and three years old, and I have not had any problems with any of them with one exception, which was my own fault -- I mangled the contact leaf on one of the Click switches while experimenting with modding the switches. I sent it to Mechanicalkeyboards. com for repair, and they did an excellent job with a quick turnaround.




Offline tuananh_bkk

  • Posts: 23
Re: Quality Control?
« Reply #35 on: Wed, 09 November 2016, 00:04:44 »
i have problems twice. and they did send me replacements for both.

while i think their support is good, their QC is clearly having problem.

Offline dotancohen

  • Posts: 249
    • Dotan Cohen
Re: Quality Control?
« Reply #36 on: Fri, 11 November 2016, 05:51:48 »
I've also had repeat-key issues with a low-force Ergo Pro, but I'm not entirely convinced that my issue is mechanical. On mine the key stays 'pressed' indefinitely, until I press either the key again _or another key_. So the problem might be the controller not sending the keyup signal until another key is pressed. Very annoying.

I'm waiting on a replacement board, which Matias support has assured me should ship in December. They stress that this is an improved board and that they "are being extra vigilant with this production run" so for what that's worth, we might be able to expect an improvement in quality. They're also very generously providing me with standard-force switches, as I'm rather unhappy with these low-force switches. Though I prefer ~30 gram switches (even Cherry Reds are a bit stiff for me) everything else about the low-force switch I dislike.