HHKB Pro PS/2!

[chongyixiong]

http://page6.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/f78088874

Wow, which generation is this?

Really dig the concealable PS/2 hidden drawer.. nicely engineered.
Have to say that the current logo is more cute though.

Since we're here, there's a HHKB Pro on sale as well (1st Gen right?)
http://page2.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/b103575885

If my Mandarin serves me correctly, this guy has been using it for the past 4 years and it's still going strong! Pretty good investment there.

[watduzhkstand4]

that black one has some really shiny keys! Mine are still so new and it's rubbing my skin off. I was wondering how long it will take for me to get those keys shiny!

[rdh]

The first link shows an original HHKB (not a HHKB Pro), which has rubber dome keyswitches.  The original came with a few different connector styles: "P" at the end of the model number indicates the PS/2 connector; they also had "S" for Sun and "M" for Macintosh (ADB), according to PFU's page on discontinued models.  (Here's the same link, more or less in English.)

That is, it's the very first generation of Happy Hacking Keyboards.


The second link shows an HHKB Pro, which is the first HHKB model to have the capacitive Topre keys, and has a USB connection.  It's very similar to the current HHKB Pro 2.

[chongyixiong]

Thanks for the explanation.

SO what's the craze regarding the HHKB Pro and the HHKB Pro 2?
Why is the former sought after, if taken into account that the latter model actually has USB ports and maybe better QC, as compared to the first generation?

Is there a different in keystroke and feel?

[itlnstln]

Thanks for the explanation.
 
SO what's the craze regarding the HHKB Pro and the HHKB Pro 2?
Why is the former sought after, if taken into account that the latter model actually has USB ports and maybe better QC, as compared to the first generation?
 
Is there a different in keystroke and feel?

It's vintage. Vintage makes it special.

[o2dazone]

Exactly the same, well...subtly different, but the layout is the same, even the cases are the same (well, same enough to swap the top of the case with the bottom of the case). iMav has both

more here (it's an old thread, try not to necro it)

[Rajagra]

Really dig the concealable PS/2 hidden drawer.. nicely engineered.

Wow, that is so much better than the current version. The exposed plug on the new one is just begging to be whacked and snapped off, damaging the cable and more importantly, the socket.

[chongyixiong]

Exactly the same, well...subtly different, but the layout is the same, even the cases are the same (well, same enough to swap the top of the case with the bottom of the case). iMav has both

more here (it's an old thread, try not to necro it)

Thanks for the heads up!
Will be getting a HHKB Pro 2 soon! I hope.

[rdjack21]

I saw both of those when they were first listed and have been keeping an eye on both of them depends on where the price goes on weather or not I will bid on them.

The last good condition HHKB (Non Pro) went for 7,750 yen I did bid on that one but stopped when it went over 7k yen. I just was not willing to pay ~$150 to get one right now (winning bid + bank transfer fees + shipping from seller to buying service + service fee + shipping to US + potential Japan taxes).

That HHKB Pro will get higher the closer to the end it gets. But it will be interesting to see what that one goes for.

Do you live somewhere where you can directly bid on Yahoo Japan auctions? Most sellers will not ship outside of Japan a few will ship to Korea though. The seller on the HHKB Pro does not specify shipping so I would bet only Japan.

Anyways if you have to go through a buying service get ready to add $20 or more to your winning bid price plus shipping to the US which will add another $40-50.

[rdh]

Wow, that is so much better than the current version. The exposed plug on the new one is just begging to be whacked and snapped off, damaging the cable and more importantly, the socket.

I usually leave the keyboard on the desk and press the keys with my fingers.  I find that works much better than swinging the keyboard against the corner of the desk or monitor.

Seriously, damage the cable and socket?
If it's really a risk for you, maybe you should consider replacing the socket with a cable stub, or at least use a cable with a right-angle USB connector.

[watduzhkstand4]

I've never seen anyone that has the metal version of the HHKB Pro 2. Was that even released to the public or was that OEM just for companies to use?

[ch_123]

I'm pretty sure that's the original rubber dome HHKB, in contrast to the original Pro model (with a KB300 part number, and USB only) which has them fancy Japanese rubber domes...

[Rajagra]

I usually leave the keyboard on the desk and press the keys with my fingers.  I find that works much better than swinging the keyboard against the corner of the desk or monitor.

Seriously, damage the cable and socket?
If it's really a risk for you, maybe you should consider replacing the socket with a cable stub, or at least use a cable with a right-angle USB connector.

Why are you defending a bad design feature?
Especially when they got it right in the earlier version?

Bad design is bad design. I don't expect it at this price point.

[D-EJ915]

eh wouldn't really say the first one "got it right" because the connector is pretty awkward and putting strain on cables like that is pretty bad, however, if you have it up on the legs you don't have to put it through that tiny notch so it works well in that case.

pics

[itlnstln]

Why are you defending a bad design feature?
Especially when they got it right in the earlier version?
 
Bad design is bad design. I don't expect it at this price point.

I think that's the point.  I believe what rdh was going for is wondering how that is bad design.  Really, the socket sits flush with the keyboard, and if the keyboard is on the desk, what are you going to do to break it?  I, for one, don't see the design flaw.

[rdjack21]

I was going to point out pretty much the same thing D-EJ915 did. The original design does leave something to be desired. If you do not want the feet up you have to route the cable through that small slot in the back of the board our your keyboard will not sit flat on your desk. And of course when you do this you now have a short cable with a  PS/2 connector sticking out the back of your board.

Personally I prefer the way it is now on the Pro but at the same time I would not mind if they used a different connector. BTW this is how it looks from the inside where that connector is at:

[Rajagra]

really, the socket sits flush with the keyboard, and if the keyboard is on the desk, what are you going to do to break it?

The socket is flush, but the inserted plug is not.
Because the plug sticks out, any force applied sideways or vertically, either via the cable or directly on the plug, will gain leverage, making damage possible.

Pulling sideways on the cable could break the socket.
Putting an object down on the desk behind the keyboard could hit the plug and break the socket. (Note that the plug is higher than the desk making it vulnerable to being twisted down.)

The fact that I've worked in IT support for many years has given me some insight to the type of damage that happens to user's PCs, and I've learned to appreciate good design. This is not a shining example of good design.

Sorry about the bad pic, I couldn't find the side view that shows the problem better:


EDIT>Here's an illustration of what I'd like to see. It's the underneath of an IBM Space Saver 2:



(I plugged in its own cable - just for illustrative purposes.)

[nvarsj]

Sounds like the USB Implementers forum doesn't much like them either.

I'm probably nitpicking here, but the linked document recommends micro usb connectors instead - which are much more fragile than mini usb connectors. Having worked at a certain cell phone manufacturer in the past I've seen a lot of micro usb connectors break, but I've never seen a mini usb break - they're quite durable.

Also having the plug under the keyboard would be a pain in the butt for portability. I would think it's much easier to just pull out a cord from the back.

[rdh]

Why are you defending a bad design feature?
Especially when they got it right in the earlier version?

Bad design is bad design. I don't expect it at this price point.

I wasn't so much defending it as expressing surprise that breaking the socket is even a possible issue.

I suppose if you put the HHKB on your lap or something you could apply undue pressure to the cable & socket.

Personally, I prefer sockets to dangling cable stubs or permanently attached cables.   The designers could have put the socket in a recess underneath the board, which could be designed to hold the cable and reduce stress on the cable and socket.

[rdh]

You all got there before me.  :-)

The designers could have put the socket in a recess underneath the board, which could be designed to hold the cable and reduce stress on the cable and socket.

The space saver 2 picture you included is pretty much what I had in mind.

[rdh]

I've never seen anyone that has the metal version of the HHKB Pro 2. Was that even released to the public or was that OEM just for companies to use?

I've only heard of two metal-cased HHKB models.

As far as I can tell, they were available to the public, but I would expect them to be rare as they were sold for a limited time and were not cheap.

PFU released this aluminum-cased fellow in 2007 to celebrate the tenth anniversary of the HHKB series.  It sold for a mere 262,500 yen (over $2,000 USD) while you could get them.

To accompany the aluminum case, you could choose white or black keys, with or without markings.  


But they didn't stop there.

They also released a second tenth-anniversary model with the same aluminum case: the HHKB Professional HG Japan.

Each of those lovely keys was hand-painted with ten coats of lacquer, then sprinkled with gold dust.

No, really.
(Though I'm not buying that "brush made from the hairs of a virgin" stuff.)

And it only would have cost you twice as much: 525,000 yen.


These are the only keyboards I've seen that had a slot for a lock.


Links:

• Pictures of the aluminum case, including the unusual tilt mechanism.
  
• PFU's discontinued HHKB models page.
  
• PFU's HG model page.
  
• I got the prices here.
  

[rdjack21]

I've seen the Lacquered one and every time I see it I drool on the picture but even I can't justify how much they want for one of those even if I could find one that is. I just love the way the highlights are done on it. Man don't let ripster see it a board full of red keys might make him faint.

That aluminum-cased fellow is nice but doesn't have the WOW factor of the Lacquered one.

[watduzhkstand4]

Sometimes I just don't know what the Japanese are thinking. The worse is, I don't know what the buyers of those are thinking. What do they do after they buy them? Showcase it? Sleep with it? Have sex with it like wellington and his 87u? lol

[D-EJ915]

you could beat somebody over the head with it, those must be solid as crap

[watduzhkstand4]

you could beat somebody over the head with it, those must be solid as crap

lmfao but it will mess up the paint job xD!

[JulienC]

I had seen the original model here and here (from ratpoison's keyboard gallery), which had led me to search about the HHKB and then find about geekhack

[rdjack21]

I have to say the only one he had that looked nice was the White HHKB Pro 2. All the rest he has beat the crap out of. I really feel for that poor data hand. He just doesn't seem to take care of them.

Oh Welcome to GeekHack I'm glad you found us because at least here you will see boards that have been well cared for.

[megarat]

]Double shot keys are so much more practical and almost as rare.  

I admit that I have a thing for double-shot keys as well.  Must be from my time playing with vintage HP calculators.

All of your recent posts about this have got me curious about whether or not I should try to dig up a set of double-shot keycaps for my Filco mod-boards.  If anyone knows of a model of Alps keyboard with double-shot keycaps and standard US layout, let me know.

[rdjack21]

Actually I'm really hoping that that NISSHO Electronics KB106DE (the one with cupped keys) has Double shot keys. That would just be great. But knowing that Topre has not done a Double shot key I'm prepared to be disappointed. I'm just hoping that NISSO did the keys and that they are Double Shot. Oh well I guess I will see when it gets here.

[maxlugar]

I'm pretty sure that's the original rubber dome HHKB, in contrast to the original Pro model (with a KB300 part number, and USB only) which has them fancy Japanese rubber domes...

I have to tell you, them fancy Japanese rubber dome key switches on the HH Pro 2 are pretty awesome.  Yes, the typing experience is very different from the IBM PC AT 84-key keyboard.  If you are like me, there will probably never be another key switch that is as enjoyable to type on as the buckling spring/capacitive contact key switch used in the PC AT keyboards.  (The original IBM PC 83-key keyboards not so much - too clicky and not as smooth as the 84-key AT keyboards, not to mention unpractical layout)  But if you ever decide to branch out with a "modern" key switch, so far, I haven't found anything better than the Topres.

It's really difficult to describe or explain what makes the Topre rubber dome key switches feel different from your run of the mill rubber dome key switch.  Yeah, yeah, I know it's not just the addtion of the spring and the rubber is thicker for the higher force keys plus the slider mechanisms are precision engineered.  It's probably all of the above plus the mostly outstanding Japanese build quality.

I compared my new HH Pro 2 with the crap Dell rubber dome that came bundled with my laptop port replicator.  The iniital feel of the key presses is very similar, especially to the casual user.  However, extended typing on the HH Pro 2 is strangely satifying whereas extended typing on the crap Dell rubber dome was just plain tedious.

I have a Topre Realforce 87U on order and will continue to post more unscientific and admitedly subjective feedback because for me, the typing experience trumps any data points that can be measured.

I do get a kick out of reading about ripster's and the rest of the gang's experiments and keyboard mods. Keep 'em coming...

[iMav]

The Topre switches are nice.  Although the HHKB layout is the primary seller for me.  If I could get a HHKB with blue or brown cherry switches, that would be great!
 
The only thing that keeps me from using my HHKB Pro 2 exclusively is the fact that, when in my home office, I switch between a couple of different systems...and a KVM simply is not feasible for my setup.  And I simply have not been willing to spend the money on additional HHKB 'boards yet.

[itlnstln]

Oh Welcome to GeekHack I'm glad you found us because at least here you will see boards that have been well cared for.

JulienC has been here almost a year before you joined. He should be telling you "welcome."
 
JulienC, why don't you stop in more often?

[rdjack21]

JulienC has been here almost a year before you joined. He should be telling you "welcome."
 
JulienC, why don't you stop in more often?

I just went back and looked and you are right. Sorry about that JulienC I just noticed the low post count and assumed a new member. Sorry about that.

[rdjack21]

I have to tell you, them fancy Japanese rubber dome key switches on the HH Pro 2 are pretty awesome.  Yes, the typing experience is very different from the IBM PC AT 84-key keyboard.  If you are like me, there will probably never be another key switch that is as enjoyable to type on as the buckling spring/capacitive contact key switch used in the PC AT keyboards.  (The original IBM PC 83-key keyboards not so much - too clicky and not as smooth as the 84-key AT keyboards, not to mention unpractical layout)  But if you ever decide to branch out with a "modern" key switch, so far, I haven't found anything better than the Topres.

It's really difficult to describe or explain what makes the Topre rubber dome key switches feel different from your run of the mill rubber dome key switch.  Yeah, yeah, I know it's not just the addtion of the spring and the rubber is thicker for the higher force keys plus the slider mechanisms are precision engineered.  It's probably all of the above plus the mostly outstanding Japanese build quality.

I compared my new HH Pro 2 with the crap Dell rubber dome that came bundled with my laptop port replicator.  The iniital feel of the key presses is very similar, especially to the casual user.  However, extended typing on the HH Pro 2 is strangely satifying whereas extended typing on the crap Dell rubber dome was just plain tedious.

I have a Topre Realforce 87U on order and will continue to post more unscientific and admitedly subjective feedback because for me, the typing experience trumps any data points that can be measured.

I do get a kick out of reading about ripster's and the rest of the gang's experiments and keyboard mods. Keep 'em coming...

Couldn't agree more. The Topre boards are just a joy to type on. Oh you will love that 87U you have coming it is a really nice board.

[rdjack21]

If any one was just wondering that black HHKB Pro 2 with the shiny keys went for 7,500 yen which is a good price.

[skriefal]

All of your recent posts about this have got me curious about whether or not I should try to dig up a set of double-shot keycaps for my Filco mod-boards.  If anyone knows of a model of Alps keyboard with double-shot keycaps and standard US layout, let me know.

Most -- if not all -- of the Northgate Omnikey boards will have double-shot keycaps and Alps interface.  Unfortunately acquiring one will probably not be cheap, and most of them will have the large "L" shaped Enter key.