Author Topic: Model M Spacebar Issue  (Read 4803 times)

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Offline TechnoGuy4122

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Model M Spacebar Issue
« on: Fri, 27 February 2015, 06:52:48 »
Hi everyone,

I just bought my first mechanical keyboard, this Model M i am typing on. (model 52G9658)

I received it today and everything works fine except the spacebar. The spacebar is registering key presses but it basically requires no pressure to push it. The key doesn't even buckle at its activation point as it only requires about a millimeter to register a press. The spacebar will also randomly spam for no reason until the key is pressed again. It sometimes also doesn't activate when pushed although that has only happened a few times.

I was wondering what is causing the problem and how to go about fixing it. As I am new to mechanical keyboards I  don't know where to start.

Thanks,
TechnoGuy4122

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Model M Spacebar Issue
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 27 February 2015, 07:14:24 »
The first thing to look at is whether the key stem is seated and the spring is aligned.

You will have to pull the spacebar off to re-seat it, but that should not be too hard.

Be careful with the stabilizer wire, it may take a small screwdriver to guide it back into its tabs.

I have never had a 52G but it is probably the same as the others.
From the US Constitution, Article 1, Section 8 :

The   Congress   shall have Power
To declare War,  grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
To provide for calling forth the Militia  to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

Offline TechnoGuy4122

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Re: Model M Spacebar Issue
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 27 February 2015, 08:08:38 »
Thanks for the reply.

I took the key off and nothing looked bad to me. As far as i'm concerned the key is seated correctly but i'm not 100% sure.

I have included a picture of the spring inside and a video demonstration of my problem. I show the buckle of some good keys then the buckle of the spacebar. I show how little pressure is required to activate the spacebar and prove it by making it scroll the thread.

92185-0


Thanks,
TechnoGuy4122

Offline 0100010

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Re: Model M Spacebar Issue
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 27 February 2015, 09:23:15 »
Tilt the keyboard forward (function row down, spacebar up), so that the top of the spring is sitting near the top of that barrel - then put on the spacebar.  See if that seats the spring correctly so it buckles.
  Quoting me causes a posting error that you need to ignore.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Model M Spacebar Issue
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 27 February 2015, 09:25:34 »
You might pull one of the standard-sized 1x key stems and put it in the spacebar barrel.

If it works properly, then you will know that it is an adjustment problem and not a functional problem.
From the US Constitution, Article 1, Section 8 :

The   Congress   shall have Power
To declare War,  grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
To provide for calling forth the Militia  to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

Offline E TwentyNine

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Re: Model M Spacebar Issue
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 27 February 2015, 09:56:15 »
Tilt the keyboard forward (function row down, spacebar up), so that the top of the spring is sitting near the top of that barrel - then put on the spacebar.  See if that seats the spring correctly so it buckles.

It sounded fine in the video, but it wasn't hit to the side.

(I'm responding to you because I always get an error and want to record what it is this time...  aha: "Wrong value type sent to the database. Array of integers expected. (quoteids)".  Wonder if it's trying to parse your username... )
Daily driver: SSK or Tenkeyless IBM AT
1984 Model M Industrial Prototype ⌨ 1992 Black Oval Industrial SSK ⌨ 1982 5251 Beam Spring ⌨ 89 Key "SSK" ⌨ M13 triplets

Offline TechnoGuy4122

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Re: Model M Spacebar Issue
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 27 February 2015, 15:59:04 »
You might pull one of the standard-sized 1x key stems and put it in the spacebar barrel.

If it works properly, then you will know that it is an adjustment problem and not a functional problem.


I  put the  B key on the spacebar barrel and the same problem occurred. I also forgot to mention that when I first attempted to see what was wrong with the spacebar the spring fell out when removing the key. I have seemed to put it back and it doesn't come out. Maybe I have put the spring in wrong (which is highly possible) or the spring is broken.

Thanks,
TechnoGuy4122

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Model M Spacebar Issue
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 27 February 2015, 16:00:36 »
You might pull one of the standard-sized 1x key stems and put it in the spacebar barrel.

If it works properly, then you will know that it is an adjustment problem and not a functional problem.


I  put the  B key on the spacebar barrel and the same problem occurred. I also forgot to mention that when I first attempted to see what was wrong with the spacebar the spring fell out when removing the key. I have seemed to put it back and it doesn't come out. Maybe I have put the spring in wrong (which is highly possible) or the spring is broken.

Thanks,
TechnoGuy4122


I have never tried to replace a spring in situ, but look up the "Chopstick of Death" technique and do that.
From the US Constitution, Article 1, Section 8 :

The   Congress   shall have Power
To declare War,  grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
To provide for calling forth the Militia  to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

Offline E TwentyNine

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Re: Model M Spacebar Issue
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 27 February 2015, 16:22:40 »
I  put the  B key on the spacebar barrel and the same problem occurred. I also forgot to mention that when I first attempted to see what was wrong with the spacebar the spring fell out when removing the key. I have seemed to put it back and it doesn't come out. Maybe I have put the spring in wrong (which is highly possible) or the spring is broken.

Thanks,
TechnoGuy4122


I have never tried to replace a spring in situ, but look up the "Chopstick of Death" technique and do that.

This is the way to go.  Note that it may take a few tries, but it is completely doable, I've done it many times.  I doubt the spring itself is broken.
Daily driver: SSK or Tenkeyless IBM AT
1984 Model M Industrial Prototype ⌨ 1992 Black Oval Industrial SSK ⌨ 1982 5251 Beam Spring ⌨ 89 Key "SSK" ⌨ M13 triplets

Offline TechnoGuy4122

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Re: Model M Spacebar Issue
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 27 February 2015, 16:29:26 »
I have never tried to replace a spring in situ, but look up the "Chopstick of Death" technique and do that.

I had an attempt to use this method and the spring went on fine but still no improvements to the spacebar. I want to try swapping out the spring with another keys one but couldn't get another out and I don't want to break a spring.

Like I said before, I have no experience with mechanical keyboards and could be doing things wrong.

Thanks,
TechnoGuy4122

Offline TechnoGuy4122

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Re: Model M Spacebar Issue
« Reply #10 on: Fri, 27 February 2015, 22:06:44 »
I have figured out the problem with the spacebar. It seems the thing that registers the key press (i don't know the name for it) has broken and isn't staying in position which explains the jams and random presses. It has gotten worse to a point where the spacebar doesn't even buckle or register a keypress.

How do I go about fixing it or do I try to get a refund from the seller as I only have had it for a day?

Thanks,
TechnoGuy4122
« Last Edit: Fri, 27 February 2015, 22:11:19 by TechnoGuy4122 »

Offline 0100010

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Re: Model M Spacebar Issue
« Reply #11 on: Sat, 28 February 2015, 07:26:24 »
Options are shipping to Unicomp and paying them to repair.

Ordering or obtaining a replacement spring and hammer, and replacing it yourself - which requires a bolt mod.

Or returning to seller.
  Quoting me causes a posting error that you need to ignore.

Offline E TwentyNine

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Re: Model M Spacebar Issue
« Reply #12 on: Sat, 28 February 2015, 07:46:07 »
I have figured out the problem with the spacebar. It seems the thing that registers the key press (i don't know the name for it) has broken and isn't staying in position which explains the jams and random presses. It has gotten worse to a point where the spacebar doesn't even buckle or register a keypress.

How do I go about fixing it or do I try to get a refund from the seller as I only have had it for a day?

Thanks,
TechnoGuy4122

You mean the thing the spring attaches to  (Commonly known as a flipper)?



Can you tell if one of the tabs on side is broken or if the whole thing is just out of place?  If it's just out of place you may be able to fix it without a full bolt mod.
Daily driver: SSK or Tenkeyless IBM AT
1984 Model M Industrial Prototype ⌨ 1992 Black Oval Industrial SSK ⌨ 1982 5251 Beam Spring ⌨ 89 Key "SSK" ⌨ M13 triplets

Offline TechnoGuy4122

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Re: Model M Spacebar Issue
« Reply #13 on: Sat, 28 February 2015, 16:30:08 »
I have figured out the problem with the spacebar. It seems the thing that registers the key press (i don't know the name for it) has broken and isn't staying in position which explains the jams and random presses. It has gotten worse to a point where the spacebar doesn't even buckle or register a keypress.

How do I go about fixing it or do I try to get a refund from the seller as I only have had it for a day?

Thanks,
TechnoGuy4122

You mean the thing the spring attaches to  (Commonly known as a flipper)?

Show Image


Can you tell if one of the tabs on side is broken or if the whole thing is just out of place?  If it's just out of place you may be able to fix it without a full bolt mod.

Yes, that is the thing that's broken. It doesn't look like its snapped but it is definitely out of place.

How would I go about fixing an out of place flipper without a bolt mod?

Thanks,
TechnoGuy4122

Offline 0100010

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Re: Model M Spacebar Issue
« Reply #14 on: Sat, 28 February 2015, 17:21:21 »
Toothpick.
  Quoting me causes a posting error that you need to ignore.

Offline TechnoGuy4122

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Re: Model M Spacebar Issue
« Reply #15 on: Sat, 28 February 2015, 18:28:50 »
Toothpick.

Thanks! It got the spacebar working again although it is still very touchy. Does that mean the flipper is damaged but not damaged enough so that it still works?

For now at least I can still type on it!

Thanks,
TechnoGuy4122

Offline E TwentyNine

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Re: Model M Spacebar Issue
« Reply #16 on: Sat, 28 February 2015, 18:54:00 »
It means you probably have a few missing rivets in that area and the plastic top plate is separating slightly from the back metal plate, letting that flipper come off its "mounts".

You're going to want to open up the keyboard and take a look at the bottom of the keyboard assembly.



The rivets are basically little plastic stems that are pushed down ("mushroomed") to hold the metal plate and the plastic barrel plate together (with the membrane sandwiched between them).  When they fall off the plate can get loose.

People do "bolt mods" where essentially they drill out all the rivets and replace with tiny bolts/screws.  If your problem persists you can try getting away with just drilling out the ones that have fallen off near the spacebar without disassembling the whole thing.  There's a small risk of debris getting in when you do that so you'd have to do a full mod in that case.

Or you can return it to the seller as long as it wasn't an as-is purchase.  Which this old keyboards usually are.
« Last Edit: Sat, 28 February 2015, 18:57:08 by E TwentyNine »
Daily driver: SSK or Tenkeyless IBM AT
1984 Model M Industrial Prototype ⌨ 1992 Black Oval Industrial SSK ⌨ 1982 5251 Beam Spring ⌨ 89 Key "SSK" ⌨ M13 triplets

Offline TechnoGuy4122

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Re: Model M Spacebar Issue
« Reply #17 on: Sat, 28 February 2015, 19:19:25 »
It means you probably have a few missing rivets in that area and the plastic top plate is separating slightly from the back metal plate, letting that flipper come off its "mounts".

You're going to want to open up the keyboard and take a look at the bottom of the keyboard assembly.

Show Image


The rivets are basically little plastic stems that are pushed down ("mushroomed") to hold the metal plate and the plastic barrel plate together (with the membrane sandwiched between them).  When they fall off the plate can get loose.

People do "bolt mods" where essentially they drill out all the rivets and replace with tiny bolts/screws.  If your problem persists you can try getting away with just drilling out the ones that have fallen off near the spacebar without disassembling the whole thing.  There's a small risk of debris getting in when you do that so you'd have to do a full mod in that case.

Or you can return it to the seller as long as it wasn't an as-is purchase.  Which this old keyboards usually are.

I sent a return request via eBay to the seller yesterday when it stopped working. I may keep the keyboard and try to fix it since it still mostly works but am unsure. If I do I will find a small enough 5/32" driver to remove the screws and see if I can repair it.

Thanks for the help with everything. I highly appreciate the help that everyone has done to try and diagnose my issue. I'll post an update to weather I decide to fix it or return it.

Thanks,
TechnoGuy4122

Offline Snowdog993

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Re: Model M Spacebar Issue
« Reply #18 on: Sat, 28 February 2015, 20:29:14 »
7/32" or 5.5 mm deep socket.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Model M Spacebar Issue
« Reply #19 on: Sat, 28 February 2015, 20:42:51 »
From the US Constitution, Article 1, Section 8 :

The   Congress   shall have Power
To declare War,  grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
To provide for calling forth the Militia  to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

Offline Snowdog993

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Re: Model M Spacebar Issue
« Reply #20 on: Sat, 28 February 2015, 21:23:24 »
Yeah, like Fohat said.
« Last Edit: Thu, 12 March 2015, 10:23:19 by Snowdog993 »

Offline TechnoGuy4122

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Re: Model M Spacebar Issue
« Reply #21 on: Sat, 28 February 2015, 21:44:39 »
7/32" or 5.5 mm deep socket.

Whoops.. typo :)