Author Topic: Considering Switching To Dvorak -- Thoughts?  (Read 24029 times)

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Offline davkol

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Re: Considering Switching To Dvorak -- Thoughts?
« Reply #100 on: Sun, 20 March 2016, 05:34:46 »
Can't even imagine switching from QWERTY, but it does kind of suck that we've inherited this old school layout that was created only from a functional point of a type writer

That's the reason I really want to teach my daughter Dvorak from the start, but I'm also worried about how much that would hamper her at school, early career, etc. I think she'd be so much happier to have never learned qwerty, but the world is not yet amenable to that. :(

You are gonna make her an outcast for any computing related experience, do you see her carrying her own board along with her lap top? do you see her unable to use any regular keyboard?
LOL at outcast. DSK has been standardized by ANSI. It's about as hard to switch to it for typing, as in case of any other national standard. Do you actually think any kid, that uses a non-English layout in the US, or US QWERTY outside the US, is an outcast?

Offline joen

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Re: Considering Switching To Dvorak -- Thoughts?
« Reply #101 on: Sun, 20 March 2016, 07:10:32 »
I switched to Programmers Dvorak a couple of months ago and right now I am at about 50 wpm and I don't regret the switch.

I started thinking about switching after I realized that my hand placement was really weird when typing on Qwerty. I started trying to keep my hands where they should be and thought that writing all of '{}[]' was really awkwardly placed, all at my right pinky. And I use those frequently while working with programming. So I started to look around at DSK and Colemak and spent a couple of hours with each. But I realized that they both still had the '[]{}' at my right pinky and thats when I found Programmers Dvorak and I decided that thats what I want to have. But the number row was quite hard to get comfortable with (still not completely comfortable, but getting there).

What I did for my switch was to first use the Dvorak Qwerty layout in OS X, that made switching a little easier because I could use copy/paste and other such shortcuts as usual.
When I felt quite comfortable with that I switched to the normal Dvorak layout to get used to the new copy/paste etc.
And finally when I felt comfortable with that I switched to Programmers Dvorak.

My Qwerty skills has almost completely been erased and now I have to stare at the keyboard to type anything (except my computer password) , and that is a bit annoying.
I still feel a little bit fatigued after spending a day typing but its better than before, now I'm pondering if I should get a more ergonomic keyboard, like the ErgoDox EZ or something similar.
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Offline ideus

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Re: Considering Switching To Dvorak -- Thoughts?
« Reply #102 on: Sun, 20 March 2016, 09:30:09 »
Can't even imagine switching from QWERTY, but it does kind of suck that we've inherited this old school layout that was created only from a functional point of a type writer

That's the reason I really want to teach my daughter Dvorak from the start, but I'm also worried about how much that would hamper her at school, early career, etc. I think she'd be so much happier to have never learned qwerty, but the world is not yet amenable to that. :(

You are gonna make her an outcast for any computing related experience, do you see her carrying her own board along with her lap top? do you see her unable to use any regular keyboard?
LOL at outcast. DSK has been standardized by ANSI. It's about as hard to switch to it for typing, as in case of any other national standard. Do you actually think any kid, that uses a non-English layout in the US, or US QWERTY outside the US, is an outcast?

I use US International to write in English and Spanish and my laptop and my keyboards have the same layout, and it works very well for me, but when I have to write in someone else computer, for example, to help my students to write some R code it is very hard even finding a character like the tilde, it is incredible how diverse the ISO Spanish layouts are, and that is mainly related with the symbols only, if you add further complexity changing the alphas distribution it would be even harder for the person to be comfortable with the available layouts.

Offline skullydazed

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Re: Considering Switching To Dvorak -- Thoughts?
« Reply #103 on: Sun, 20 March 2016, 10:07:23 »
Can't even imagine switching from QWERTY, but it does kind of suck that we've inherited this old school layout that was created only from a functional point of a type writer

That's the reason I really want to teach my daughter Dvorak from the start, but I'm also worried about how much that would hamper her at school, early career, etc. I think she'd be so much happier to have never learned qwerty, but the world is not yet amenable to that. :(

You are gonna make her an outcast for any computing related experience, do you see her carrying her own board along with her lap top? do you see her unable to use any regular keyboard?
LOL at outcast. DSK has been standardized by ANSI. It's about as hard to switch to it for typing, as in case of any other national standard. Do you actually think any kid, that uses a non-English layout in the US, or US QWERTY outside the US, is an outcast?

It may be easy to enable Dvorak, but that also assumes you CAN enable it. If they have the system locked down or if it's a shared computer you may get in trouble for changing it, no matter how easy it is. So yeah, if she only learned Dvorak there are times she'd be an outcast.

Offline csmertx

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Re: Considering Switching To Dvorak -- Thoughts?
« Reply #104 on: Mon, 21 March 2016, 02:08:38 »
After a few days of using a layout printout I could slowly touch type in Dvorak. I'm not a remarkable typist, my QWERTY average is between 60-70 wpm.

A month of Dvorak training, (10-20 minutes per day) and my wpm went from ~10 wpm to 16 wpm.

Idk, I'm starting to wonder if the change to Dvorak is worth the effort.
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Offline b0f0

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Re: Considering Switching To Dvorak -- Thoughts?
« Reply #105 on: Mon, 21 March 2016, 02:25:48 »
Learning a new layout and typing 100 WMP is not something that can not happen in short amount of time. I am wainting for person that will report more then 100WPM in Colemak or Dvorak on this forum. Would like to ask also how long it took learning for such speeds. I am also asking myself is it worth changing layouts if you type in qwerty more than 100WPM (I touch type really slow, so this is not my resoult). Also there are the keycap sets that are made for qwerty, sometimes also for other layouts.
I will try to make a change and try to practice every day to touch type with all 10 fingers. Will see what happens and report.

Offline davkol

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Offline b0f0

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Offline csmertx

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Re: Considering Switching To Dvorak -- Thoughts?
« Reply #108 on: Mon, 21 March 2016, 13:05:11 »
http://www.ryanheise.com/colemak/
He typed in an alternate layout for the entire day?! Good god that's dedication!
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...Especially the Florida cousins, who obviously can't take a hint.

Offline livingspeedbump

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Re: Considering Switching To Dvorak -- Thoughts?
« Reply #109 on: Mon, 21 March 2016, 13:26:53 »
I used Dvorak (and to an extent Colemak) back in college, and while Colemak was easier to learn, Dvorak had more advantages for my typing style and needs. I used it exclusively the last 2 years of college and really, really loved it.

The problem came when i took an IT job that required me to bounce around to different machines, or remote login, etc, and then i got all confused and looked rather incompetent. Sadly at the time I didn't really look into keyboards that could actually output Dvorak, as I was simply changed the input settings on my computer when I was learning it and on my main work computer. The frustration of swapping back and forth on the fly, daily, if not hourly pushed me back to Qwerty unfortunately. I still try to type Dvorak and Colemak here and there so I don't totally use it, but have become rather complacent.

So, I absolutely recommend it, but having a keyboard that can output dvorak will be your best friend, especially if you heavily use more than one computer.
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Offline LuX

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Re: Considering Switching To Dvorak -- Thoughts?
« Reply #110 on: Mon, 21 March 2016, 14:42:56 »
I used Dvorak (and to an extent Colemak) back in college, and while Colemak was easier to learn, Dvorak had more advantages for my typing style and needs. I used it exclusively the last 2 years of college and really, really loved it.

The problem came when i took an IT job that required me to bounce around to different machines, or remote login, etc, and then i got all confused and looked rather incompetent. Sadly at the time I didn't really look into keyboards that could actually output Dvorak, as I was simply changed the input settings on my computer when I was learning it and on my main work computer.

You could use the Portable Keyboard Layout. Just stick a flash drive in the computer and the keyboard turns to Colemak/Dvorak/what ever without installing anything. If you need to switch back just click the icon on the toolbar or make a hotkey for switching.

http://pkl.sourceforge.net/

Offline livingspeedbump

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Re: Considering Switching To Dvorak -- Thoughts?
« Reply #111 on: Mon, 21 March 2016, 14:50:31 »
I used Dvorak (and to an extent Colemak) back in college, and while Colemak was easier to learn, Dvorak had more advantages for my typing style and needs. I used it exclusively the last 2 years of college and really, really loved it.

The problem came when i took an IT job that required me to bounce around to different machines, or remote login, etc, and then i got all confused and looked rather incompetent. Sadly at the time I didn't really look into keyboards that could actually output Dvorak, as I was simply changed the input settings on my computer when I was learning it and on my main work computer.

You could use the Portable Keyboard Layout. Just stick a flash drive in the computer and the keyboard turns to Colemak/Dvorak/what ever without installing anything. If you need to switch back just click the icon on the toolbar or make a hotkey for switching.

http://pkl.sourceforge.net/

Using remote logins to other desktops/servers wouldnt work for that, but that is a handy thing to know :thumb:
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Offline DvorakDachshund

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Re: Considering Switching To Dvorak -- Thoughts?
« Reply #112 on: Tue, 22 March 2016, 14:09:11 »
I am wainting for person that will report more then 100WPM in Colemak or Dvorak on this forum.

I peak at 103 WPM on DVORAK when I'm warmed up and not tired (currently working 11 hour days so I'm averaging about 83 ATM).

Offline PieterGen

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Re: Considering Switching To Dvorak -- Thoughts?
« Reply #113 on: Tue, 22 March 2016, 16:04:08 »
Quote
It may be easy to enable Dvorak, but that also assumes you CAN enable it. If they have the system locked down or if it's a shared computer you may get in trouble ....

I work in a very locked down environment, but even here we can change our layouts. 

Quote
That's the reason I really want to teach my daughter Dvorak from the start, but I'm also worried about how much that would hamper her at school, early career, etc. I think she'd be so much happier to have never learned qwerty, but the world is not yet amenable to that. :(
   
Well, Dvorak sure did not hamper Matt Mullenweg (WordPress) or Steve Wozniak (Apple)  :)

Offline eternalmetal

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Re: Considering Switching To Dvorak -- Thoughts?
« Reply #114 on: Tue, 22 March 2016, 19:02:28 »
Unless some mighty force push the world into a different reality, I do not see any easy way to replace qwerty as the main keyboard standard for general computing.

This.  The general public isnt going to care about any ergonomic advantages or slight benefits, so QWERTY will remain the standard until some new technology threatens to entirely replace the keyboard.

Can't even imagine switching from QWERTY, but it does kind of suck that we've inherited this old school layout that was created only from a functional point of a type writer

That's the reason I really want to teach my daughter Dvorak from the start, but I'm also worried about how much that would hamper her at school, early career, etc. I think she'd be so much happier to have never learned qwerty, but the world is not yet amenable to that. :(

You are gonna make her an outcast for any computing related experience, do you see her carrying her own board along with her lap top? do you see her unable to use any regular keyboard?
LOL at outcast. DSK has been standardized by ANSI. It's about as hard to switch to it for typing, as in case of any other national standard. Do you actually think any kid, that uses a non-English layout in the US, or US QWERTY outside the US, is an outcast?

Using a non-English layout in the US is the definition of an outcast.  It's simple, the QWERTY keyboard is a huge standard and it isnt going anywhere, for better or worse.  Learning another layout is fine, but expect to have to fiddle with computer settings and deal with annoyingly wrong legends if you want to use them.  It's fine if you want to deal with this, as I expect a large portion of the techies on this site might be fine with it as well, but most people would find it to be cumbersome, not to mention extremely nerdy.