Japanese keyboards dealers (shipping to Europe)?

[spremino]

Hello,

I've become interested in trying out a Japanese keyboard, since it seems that by remapping lower keys I can make more use of my thumbs.

Besides benippon.com, do you know about other dealers which would ship to Europe? I could also be interested in replacing my laptop (Asus EeePC 1000HE) keyboard with a Japanese one: again, do you know any dealers?

Thanks

[lowpoly]

Wiki/Keyboard Links

[Rajagra]

Consider Brazilian and Korean boards too. They have the useful extra keys, but are less extreme.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130328585894

[cmr]

i'd be interested to test one of these out, but all the layouts with extra bottom-row stuff seem to also have undesirable enter/backspace/backslash.

[spremino]

i'd be interested to test one of these out, but all the layouts with extra bottom-row stuff seem to also have undesirable enter/backspace/backslash.

No problem: just swap those keys ;-)

I'd like to have Enter and Tab under my thumbs, without resorting to a Maltron or Kinesis.

[namelessguy]

I don't know much about its details but there's a statement on Amazon.co.jp like this;
"Amazon.co.jp can ship to virtually any address in the world."

Still, I guess you ought to read Japanese to a certain extent, to understand descriptions on items you want.

EDIT: Ah, forget that. On another page they say most items except books/videos cannot be shipped outside Japan.

[cmr]

well you can't exactly just swap keycaps to get rid of a reverse-L enter and a small backspace

[spremino]

well you can't exactly just swap keycaps to get rid of a reverse-L enter and a small backspace

Agreed. But that's just a matter of compromise: I'd swap Backspace and Caps Lock. IMO, a reverse-L Enter key is way better than the 7 shaped one we Europeans have to deal with :-(

However, swapping keys will impair your ability to type on a mainstream keyboard. That's why I'm looking for both a desktop and a laptop keyboard.

EDIT: I'm talking about keys, not keycaps. Since I'm a touch typist, I don't care about the latter.

EDIT 2: IMO, a decent layout would be the US one with a splitted spacebar.

[rdjack21]

I think maybe you can on a Model M.  There are some unused pads on the membrane - would require the whole nut/bolt type mod though.

If anyone ever sees a Model M with those extra keys by the spacebar give a shout.

I think I saw one on Yahoo Japan yesterday. When I get home later tonight I will look around and post a link for you.

[rdjack21]

For Korean boards your best bet is Gmarket you will find both Korean and US layout boards their in all kinds of price ranges.

For Japanese boards it really depends on what you are looking for. From what I've seen their is more than one Japanese layout where the only real difference is the size of the space bar and the language keys next to it. That little Topre I have has the small space bar and I'm not really having any issues with it. As to where to get them depends on what you want. So maybe specify if you want a good board or just any old cheap board to play with.

One of the easer places to deal with but with limited choice is GeekStuff4u

the biggest problem with Japanese merchants is that most of them will not ship out side of Japan. So if you really want something very specific you have to go through a buying service. I personally use Crescent-shop they are maybe not the cheapest route (I have not really done a full comparison) but I have had no issues with them so I continue to use them. But the big reason I continue to use them is because they will purchase from any shop in Japan that has a web site and will make purchases for you on Yahoo Japan as well. Another thing is they will consolidate purchases for shipping which helps reduce your costs.

Just be warned none of these options are cheap. All those extra fees really add up. For instance that little Topre listed for around $190 but after fees and shipping it was $275 to get it to my door.

This is getting too long. If you just want something cheap PM me I might be able to help you out. Really do PM me I know of a board I could get you for a reasonable price.

[Bruce]

I could check this out with Diatec if you like.
We may well be able to arrange for a Japanese Filco.

[cmr]

Agreed. But that's just a matter of compromise: I'd swap Backspace and Caps Lock. IMO, a reverse-L Enter key is way better than the 7 shaped one we Europeans have to deal with :-(

i've not typed on a board with a 7-shaped enter. i imagine it would be similar to the old 83-key XT layout. really, i have no problem with alternate shapes for the enter key... it's just that unless it's the single-row, 2.5x-width ANSI style, there's no good place for the backslash.

[spremino]

For Japanese boards it really depends on what you are looking for. From what I've seen their is more than one Japanese layout where the only real difference is the size of the space bar and the language keys next to it. That little Topre I have has the small space bar and I'm not really having any issues with it. As to where to get them depends on what you want. So maybe specify if you want a good board or just any old cheap board to play with.

Thank you very much for your detailed answer.

Indeed I'm realizing that Japanese keyboards are not all alike. I don't mind a small space bar as long as it is comfortably placed. For instance, the Japanese Happy Hacking does it right (for me).

I'm looking for a quality keyboard (blue cherries?), but I'm not going to pay too much, since I'd have to buy two of them (home and work) and delivery will add up.

[Rajagra]

I think maybe you can on a Model M.  There are some unused pads on the membrane - would require the whole nut/bolt type mod though.

If anyone ever sees a Model M with those extra keys by the spacebar give a shout.

Hmmmm. {Rubs chin while looking at an M2 pic.}



EDIT> Scratch that idea, according to Aqua'S Key Test, the tubes around the space bar don't send any scan code.

[Rajagra]

I think maybe you can on a Model M.  There are some unused pads on the membrane - would require the whole nut/bolt type mod though.

If anyone ever sees a Model M with those extra keys by the spacebar give a shout.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140330229364

[rdjack21]

This is one of the better boards that I see that have a good price. But I think it has some Alps switch in it. This one also has the larger space bar as well. I think they call the one with the small space bar a thumb board because it puts the language shift keys in reach of the thumb where on this one you would have to use a different finger for them.



And here is one with the small space bar:


FYI: The first one has 4 days left with no bids with a starting bid of 1000yen or about $12 plus fees and shipping

The IBM board has no bids has 11 hours left and starts at 100 yen or about $1 plus fees and shipping.

[rdjack21]

I think maybe you can on a Model M.  There are some unused pads on the membrane - would require the whole nut/bolt type mod though.

If anyone ever sees a Model M with those extra keys by the spacebar give a shout.

Ok ripster here you go a IBM 5576-A01 which according to chloe is a BS board we even have a keyboard typing recording here

Pic:

No bids but I think maybe a little expensive 20,000 yen BIN price

Their is also this one along with a couple of other boards much cheaper 700 Yen no bids not sure of the switch though I will let you dig this one up:




There are a few others as well but these two looked the most promising I found them on Yahoo Japan using this search string "キーボード IBM". Remove the quotes when you enter it at the Yahoo Japan auction site. I assume if you want them you know how to get them.

[rdjack21]

Yea it is getting very dangerous for my wallet. So far I've only purchased a couple of boards and I only really got those because I really wanted them (couple of rare Topre boards). The problem now is that crescent-shop will consolidate your purchases for you so you can save on shipping, they will hold your purchases for up to 90 days so you can do this. So that is my problem I have the two boards I really wanted and now I'm looking at some of these cool cheaper boards for maybe adding to my shipment. That Filco for instance is a good deal at 1000 yen after fees and shipping to crescent I think it would cost me around 2,500 yen which is still not a bad price.

For a quick how to do it at least at crescent-shop. Just signup and make a $50 deposit to cover your bidding. Go to the auction section and start searching for what you want. Place a bid through there system for anything you want. If you win they will tell you how much you own them (winning bid price, service fee, bank transfer fee, shipping from seller to crescent) some sellers will pay the shipping and bank transfer fee but most don't so you have to pay it. When crescent gets your stuff they will update your members section and show the product ready to ship. To ship it you just check off what you want them to ship and they pack it up weigh it then post to your account how much it will cost to ship when you pay the shipping fee they ship it. For payment they take Paypal and I think credit cards but through paypal so in reality only paypal.

[rdjack21]

I have no idea how Yahoo Japan works.  If you get a chance maybe you can post something.  Although this may be a dangerous request - Ebay is a bad enough place to hang out for the wallet.

The A01 is definitely a Buckling Spring - I think it went from Sandy to Lammy to Lowpoly if I remember correctly.  I think it is a pretty pingy sucker.  I was thinking they musta made a standard issue one sometime - maybe Lexmark days.

Ops sorry forgot to answer the last part. Yes I've seen one but I think it was IBM made not Lexmark. I did not think anyone would be interested in it so did not mention it when I saw it. I did not track it either so I'm not sure how much it went for but I do remember that when I saw it it was around 3,500 yen with no bids with auto re-listing turned on (Yahoo Japan has this option on auctions that if a item does not sell it will automatically be re-listed at a lower starting price). I did not see it show up in later searches so I assume someone got it.

Oh man I was going to mention another board I had seen and look what shows up at 500 yen:




And to really mess with your head this one just showed up as well:



Wonder if crescent would just ship the keyboard and chunk the rest? I bet they would if you asked them to.

[rdjack21]

That first one in the last post is a IBM 5576-A01 have no clue what that terminal board is though. I posted it because I knew you have been having fun with them lately. I'm going to keep an eye on that 5576-A01 if the price stays low I may try to grab it and send it to you for Christmas or something, someone has already bid on it so I'm going to take a wait and see attitude on it though.

EDIT: Dang I just went and looked at that picture again and you are right that may not be a 5576 the seller states that it is though. I may have to send the seller a message and ask for clarification.

[wellington1869]

I really miss those bright flourescent monochrome monitors.

[rdjack21]

For your viewing pleasure take a look at this site ripster Keyboard Maniacs The 5576 series are the Japanese boards take a look at the 5576-003 I think you will like it. The only problem with that site is they don't pull a key on all the boards so it is hard to tell which of them are BS and which are dome boards. And of course the translation sucks.

[spremino]

Raj, it woulda been great to pick up some extra keys but the typical IBM Model M membrane doesn't have any extra pads next to the spacebar.  But the pads next to shift keys, enter keys, and a few others do work.  I have a disassembled membrane right now I'm poking on and picking up various scancodes I need to sit down and decipher.

In other words I think you can convert a Model M to various international layouts just not Asian with a swap of keys and the nontrivial task of opening up the board and stuffing spring/hammer assemblies in.  Just wish IBM had included the extra pads near the spacebar and I'd be all set.

You can use the SharpKeys (Windows freeware) to both detect scan codes and remap them.

I did know about the Korean IBM Model M on Ebay, but I think the space bar is misplaced for Westerners. You'll have to hit the space bar with your left thumb, but my left thumb rests between F and G, therefore it wouldn't rest on the space bar on that model. YMMV.

OTOH, I remember the guy selling it has been selling a lot of Model M in the past, therefore I think he is quite knowgeable about them, so you can ask.

[lowpoly]

The A01 is definitely a Buckling Spring - I think it went from Sandy to Lammy to Lowpoly if I remember correctly.  I think it is a pretty pingy sucker.  I was thinking they musta made a standard issue one sometime - maybe Lexmark days.

This is how it went. Unrelated, my Marquardt went to lam, then to sandy.

The switches in the A01 were made by Brother.

That first one in the last post is a IBM 5576-A01 have no clue what that terminal board is though. I posted it because I knew you have been having fun with them lately. I'm going to keep an eye on that 5576-A01 if the price stays low I may try to grab it and send it to you for Christmas or something, someone has already bid on it so I'm going to take a wait and see attitude on it though.

EDIT: Dang I just went and looked at that picture again and you are right that may not be a 5576 the seller states that it is though. I may have to send the seller a message and ask for clarification.

The 8920 is 99.9% rubber dome. I have an 8923 (Trackpoint IV) and it's rubber.

The A01 has a separate IBM label in the upper left and the area above the Fn key is more narrow. The P/N for the A01 is 79F0167.

There is also the 5576-B01 which uses rubber sleeves, not BS.

If I'd buy a BS on yahoo Japan, I'd try to get one of those A01 space savers. This should be the smallest buckling spring keyboard ever.

[rdjack21]

If I'd buy a BS on yahoo Japan, I'd try to get one of those A01 space savers. This should be the smallest buckling spring keyboard ever.

Haven't seen one of the A01 space savers on Yahoo Japan. I have seen a few of the US layout space savers though. And the price those are going for I would hate to see what a A01 would go for.

[lowpoly]

The space saver is 5576-003. Looks like none are up for auction ATM. Here is sandy's 5576 page:

http://homepage3.nifty.com/sandy55/5576/5576.html

[Qwertyuiop]

Can anyone tell if this 5576-A01 includes the cable? It's not shown and my Japanese is too poor to tell if the description mentions it:
http://page18.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/w41696735

I did get that it says it is unused from a PS/55 5530 even though the description summary lists it as a used item.

A while back there was this outrageously priced new-in-box one:
http://page8.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/h128067242

[lowpoly]

Be sure to get the cable because it's different than the common Model M cable (although those might fit).

[D-EJ915]

Wonder if crescent would just ship the keyboard and chunk the rest? I bet they would if you asked them to.

OT but you should be smacked for saying that For the amount of good condition working terminals out there today...to disassemble a complete unit...ugh...although I dunno WTF is on the screen lol so if it is burned in might as well just ditch it but you wouldn't be able to use the kb anyway.

[rdjack21]

Can anyone tell if this 5576-A01 includes the cable? It's not shown and my Japanese is too poor to tell if the description mentions it:
http://page18.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/w41696735

I did get that it says it is unused from a PS/55 5530 even though the description summary lists it as a used item.

A while back there was this outrageously priced new-in-box one:
http://page8.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/h128067242

If you are going with a buying service to get it they will generally translate and send the seller a message for you.

[lowpoly]

Yeah, that's the one I want.  I don't think Sandy will take a Filco Fukka in trade.  He can send a kid through college with that A01 Mini.

I had this link stored:

http://translate.google.de/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fpage.auctions.yahoo.co.jp%2Fjp%2Fauction%2F125229163&sl=ja&tl=en&hl=de&ie=UTF-8

It went for Y3850?

[rdjack21]

Considering the low price I wonder if the seller knew what they had. But then again I've seen some really good deals there as well.

[rdjack21]

Oh yea I agree I'm finding way to many cool boards that I would love to get but really have no use for. So I'm going to try really hard to not go look over the next week or so and have them send me the boards I've already got. Besides I really should get myself another HHKB Pro and some of those key pads and if I keep hanging out on Yahoo Japan it will be awhile before I can get them.

[Rajagra]

Uh oh. I finally got a cheap Korean board off ebay (irocks KR6110), and tried using the extra keys with Autohotkey. No joy.

The two keys beside the space bar behave strangely. They send a release code as soon as you press them. They don't send a down code at any time. When you release the keys nothing happens at all. This makes them pretty useless for alternative applications.

Do Japanese keyboards work this way too?

I doubt that remapping the keys will change this behaviour, but I'll try it.
Edit> I tried remapping - it didn't help.

[rdjack21]

The Japanese Topre I have does not work that way. The keys next to the space bar (3 of them for Japanese boards) works like any other keys.

On your Korean board I wonder if they are doing the language shift in hardware. Why not try and type some of the Korean text on the keys and see what happens.

[Rajagra]

On your Korean board I wonder if they are doing the language shift in hardware. Why not try and type some of the Korean text on the keys and see what happens.

They have no effect that I can see. Maybe they only work with IME?

[JBert]

Rajagra, did you try to let Autohotkey remap them on release? I thought there was something like this:

Code: [Select]

SC01E UP::Send 'Oh look!'

[ch_123]

I think maybe you can on a Model M.  There are some unused pads on the membrane - would require the whole nut/bolt type mod though.

If anyone ever sees a Model M with those extra keys by the spacebar give a shout.