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Author Topic: Non-Jarring Topre  (Read 2893 times)

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Offline Altis

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Non-Jarring Topre
« on: Thu, 19 March 2015, 21:59:19 »
Hello all,

I have a Realforce 87U with 55g. I find it to be pretty snappy to the point of being too harsh and jarring after extended use. I tried a Novatouch today with 45g domes and found that while it was a bit lighter, it still had quite a snap to it making it seem pretty jarring as well.

I really like the smoothness and sound of Topre but I need it to be a little easier on the hands. I've been considering getting either a 45g uniform 87U or an FC660C. From what I understand, the 87U is the softest, followed by the pad-printed (older) FC660C. I've heard the newer dye-sub FC660C feels more "like 55g".


So my question is, which Topre boards are best to get away from the harsh snappyness of the 55g? I want to be able to enjoy it for hours at a time but find 55g Topre too harsh for me.

Thanks!
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WhiteFox (Gateron Brown) -- Realforce 87U 45g -- Realforce 104UG (Hi Pro 45g) -- Realforce 108US 30g JIS -- HHKB Pro 2 -- IBM Model M ('90) -- IBM Model M SSK ('87) -- NMB RT-101 & RT-8255C+ (Hi-Tek Space Invaders) -- Chicony KB-5181 (Monterey Blue Alps) -- KPT-102 (KPT Alps) -- KUL ES-87 (62/65g Purple Zealios) -- CM QFR (MX Red) -- Apple Aluminum BT -- Realforce 23u Numpad -- Logitech K740 -- QSENN DT-35 -- Zenith Z-150 (Green Alps)

Offline dante

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Re: Non-Jarring Topre
« Reply #1 on: Thu, 19 March 2015, 22:02:53 »
HHKB - no metal back plate.
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Offline exitfire401

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Re: Non-Jarring Topre
« Reply #2 on: Thu, 19 March 2015, 22:03:39 »
Quote from: Altis on Thu, 19 March 2015, 21:59:19
Hello all,

I have a Realforce 87U with 55g. I find it to be pretty snappy to the point of being too harsh and jarring after extended use. I tried a Novatouch today with 45g domes and found that while it was a bit lighter, it still had quite a snap to it making it seem pretty jarring as well.

I really like the smoothness and sound of Topre but I need it to be a little easier on the hands. I've been considering getting either a 45g uniform 87U or an FC660C. From what I understand, the 87U is the softest, followed by the pad-printed (older) FC660C. I've heard the newer dye-sub FC660C feels more "like 55g".


So my question is, which Topre boards are best to get away from the harsh snappyness of the 55g? I want to be able to enjoy it for hours without

Thanks!

The Novatouch is a terrible example of typical 45g Topre. The ones I've tried are all as snappy as 55g. Normal Realforces and HHKBs are significantly lighter feeling and a lot less snappy (in my experience) than 55g and the Novatouch. As for the FC660C, the couple that I have tried just feel mushy and unpleasant (once again, my opinion, ymmv). The weight on it feels closer to 55g than 45g though. Personally, I HATE variable weighted boards, so any 87u variable is out for me, but the uniform 45g is fairly nice and even though I can't stand 45g Topre, if 55g didn't exist, I'd gladly have the 45g on my desk.
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Boards: Kingsaver Complicated Blue Alps |Sprit 60% Transparent MX Clears in Gateron housings with 62g gold Sprit springs lubed and RGB color shifting LEDs | Ducky Shine Zone MX Black with Blue LEDs | Realforce 10AE Variable Silenced

B/S/T thread: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=55351.0

Past projects: KBT Race 2 L.E.
Past Boards: Ducky Shine 2 | KBT Pure | LZ Aluminum Skin| HHKB | Realforce 23u |

Offline Altis

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Re: Non-Jarring Topre
« Reply #3 on: Thu, 19 March 2015, 23:08:12 »
I considered the HHKB and while it's beautiful and seems to sound nice, the layout isn't quite to my liking, especially since I'm constantly using different keyboards.

Might have to just try the 45g 87U when I get the chance.
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WhiteFox (Gateron Brown) -- Realforce 87U 45g -- Realforce 104UG (Hi Pro 45g) -- Realforce 108US 30g JIS -- HHKB Pro 2 -- IBM Model M ('90) -- IBM Model M SSK ('87) -- NMB RT-101 & RT-8255C+ (Hi-Tek Space Invaders) -- Chicony KB-5181 (Monterey Blue Alps) -- KPT-102 (KPT Alps) -- KUL ES-87 (62/65g Purple Zealios) -- CM QFR (MX Red) -- Apple Aluminum BT -- Realforce 23u Numpad -- Logitech K740 -- QSENN DT-35 -- Zenith Z-150 (Green Alps)

Offline Air tree

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Re: Non-Jarring Topre
« Reply #4 on: Thu, 19 March 2015, 23:15:18 »
45g in my hhkb haven't caused at fatigue or anything of that sort, and I'm actually after swapping my 45g's for 55g's at the moment as I hear they are quite nice.

45G might be for you as I have heard that 55g does have a stronger tactility and obviously weighting. And that very well could reduce fatigue.

All in all a 45g realforce would probably be your best bet. I have heard people talking about a much softer and sometimes mushy experience.
« Last Edit: Thu, 19 March 2015, 23:20:26 by Air tree »
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Offline slickmamba

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Re: Non-Jarring Topre
« Reply #5 on: Thu, 19 March 2015, 23:22:56 »
45g RF might be good for you.  It is not as snappy as the novatouch 45g for some reason, not entirely sure why. 
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Offline exitfire401

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Re: Non-Jarring Topre
« Reply #6 on: Thu, 19 March 2015, 23:40:40 »
Quote from: slickmamba on Thu, 19 March 2015, 23:22:56
45g RF might be good for you.  It is not as snappy as the novatouch 45g for some reason, not entirely sure why.

Don't remember if I talked to you about this on Skype or not, pretty sure it's a different rubber used for the domes
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Boards: Kingsaver Complicated Blue Alps |Sprit 60% Transparent MX Clears in Gateron housings with 62g gold Sprit springs lubed and RGB color shifting LEDs | Ducky Shine Zone MX Black with Blue LEDs | Realforce 10AE Variable Silenced

B/S/T thread: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=55351.0

Past projects: KBT Race 2 L.E.
Past Boards: Ducky Shine 2 | KBT Pure | LZ Aluminum Skin| HHKB | Realforce 23u |

Offline Polymer

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Re: Non-Jarring Topre
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 19 March 2015, 23:54:10 »
RF (45g or variable) is probably your best best...They're easier to bottom out lightly compared to the 660c and HHKB and far easier than the 55g RF....You'll still bottom out as you will with basically all Topre outside of maybe 30g you'll be able to do it lighter than other keyboards...and of course the 30g keys on the variable are a lot easier on your fingers as well...
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Offline Oobly

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Re: Non-Jarring Topre
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 20 March 2015, 03:41:55 »
Agh... all Topre are jarring. Best switch to a true mechanical with trampoline modded ErgoClears and save your fingers....  ;)   :p

45g RF is a little less "tactile" (has a little less "pop") and HHKB have slightly less harsh bottom out due to the flexy case, but I still think it's better to use something with more linear pushback force / not an S-shaped force curve to prevent bottoming out with excessive force / jarring.
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Offline Altis

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Re: Non-Jarring Topre
« Reply #9 on: Sat, 21 March 2015, 13:27:27 »
Thanks for the responses. I'll start saving up for an 87U 45g uniform.

Looks like it comes in all black, so I'll probably try to swap the internals with 87UW in white. Hope for the best!
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WhiteFox (Gateron Brown) -- Realforce 87U 45g -- Realforce 104UG (Hi Pro 45g) -- Realforce 108US 30g JIS -- HHKB Pro 2 -- IBM Model M ('90) -- IBM Model M SSK ('87) -- NMB RT-101 & RT-8255C+ (Hi-Tek Space Invaders) -- Chicony KB-5181 (Monterey Blue Alps) -- KPT-102 (KPT Alps) -- KUL ES-87 (62/65g Purple Zealios) -- CM QFR (MX Red) -- Apple Aluminum BT -- Realforce 23u Numpad -- Logitech K740 -- QSENN DT-35 -- Zenith Z-150 (Green Alps)

Offline Polymer

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Re: Non-Jarring Topre
« Reply #10 on: Sun, 22 March 2015, 01:47:36 »
Quote from: Altis on Sat, 21 March 2015, 13:27:27
Thanks for the responses. I'll start saving up for an 87U 45g uniform.

Looks like it comes in all black, so I'll probably try to swap the internals with 87UW in white. Hope for the best!

The variable might be a good option if you have "proper" form....If you don't, it'll suck bad..and I think they're terrible for gaming...Really easy on your fingers though for typing...
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Offline Heliosphere

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Re: Non-Jarring Topre
« Reply #11 on: Sun, 22 March 2015, 03:58:50 »
I've found dampening Novatouch sliders reduces the jarring feel and sound of the keyboard. Feels great now. Personally I hated the 87U 45g because it lacked tactility such that it felt linear.
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Offline atk80

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Re: Non-Jarring Topre
« Reply #12 on: Sun, 22 March 2015, 09:50:20 »
I have a Novatouch and HHKB, both modded with spiceBar's method (ironed soft landing pads). I have to say that the HHKB feels the most linear and smooth, there is still a snap but it isn't as pronounced as an unmodded board. Definitely something to try.
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Offline Polymer

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Re: Non-Jarring Topre
« Reply #13 on: Sun, 22 March 2015, 10:41:26 »
Well modding it would only impact how "jarring" it is because the travel is less..the domes are partially compressed already...that will also make it easier to press and have less tactility as well though....

You have to make the pads pretty thin for it not to impact travel..sounds like that was the case..
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Offline Altis

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Re: Non-Jarring Topre
« Reply #14 on: Sun, 22 March 2015, 20:04:13 »
I don't really like soft bottom-outs (like with O-rings) as it makes it feel like a traditional rubber dome. I just don't want to hit the bottom really hard because the bump requires so much force to overcome.

I still really like the way the 55g 87U feels, but for shorter sessions. I'd like to have the buttery smoothness of Topre but the ability to type on it for longer sessions without soreness or fatigue.
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WhiteFox (Gateron Brown) -- Realforce 87U 45g -- Realforce 104UG (Hi Pro 45g) -- Realforce 108US 30g JIS -- HHKB Pro 2 -- IBM Model M ('90) -- IBM Model M SSK ('87) -- NMB RT-101 & RT-8255C+ (Hi-Tek Space Invaders) -- Chicony KB-5181 (Monterey Blue Alps) -- KPT-102 (KPT Alps) -- KUL ES-87 (62/65g Purple Zealios) -- CM QFR (MX Red) -- Apple Aluminum BT -- Realforce 23u Numpad -- Logitech K740 -- QSENN DT-35 -- Zenith Z-150 (Green Alps)

Offline Oobly

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Re: Non-Jarring Topre
« Reply #15 on: Mon, 23 March 2015, 02:11:43 »
Quote from: Altis on Sun, 22 March 2015, 20:04:13
I don't really like soft bottom-outs (like with O-rings) as it makes it feel like a traditional rubber dome. I just don't want to hit the bottom really hard because the bump requires so much force to overcome.

I still really like the way the 55g 87U feels, but for shorter sessions. I'd like to have the buttery smoothness of Topre but the ability to type on it for longer sessions without soreness or fatigue.

You could try spicebar's silencing mod on your 55g, but don't iron the pads too flat. That will allow the start of the stroke to already be a little downward and reduce the force needed to collapse the dome, by it already being closer to that point. It reduces the tactility, but also the needed force.

I find it ironic that you think orings feel like traditional rubber dome, yet you use a "rubber dome" board that IMHO, feels a lot more like a traditional rubber dome than MX with mods.
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Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.
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