If I love Cherry MX greens, would I also love MX tactile greys?

[illitirit]

I currently only have 2 mech kbs.  A kul es 87 in greens and a code 104 in greens. 

Recently a Massdrop opening on a Varmilo VA87M has opened and while the drop does not have many switch types to choose from, it does have an option for tactile grey switches.  I know many people like MX clears but unfortunately they do not have the option on this keyboard this time around.

I personally think that even greens for me are way too soft, I would like them to be heavier.  Would a cherry mx tactile grey be perfect for me?  I have read that MX clears require up to 100g of force near the bottom of the spring.  I would only imagine what a tactile grey would need at the bottom of the spring.

Are tactile greys basically the same as clears?  Just with a more stiff spring?

Anyone that has owned and or tried both cherry mx greens and clears / greys tell me the differences in the force needed to type? 

I do work often while on skype with my boss and co-workers.  MX greens are WAY too loud and have pretty much annoyed the hell out of people I have video conferenced with so I am in search for a switch that is not too loud, yet retaining feedback from the switch press (the more / bigger the better).  I have never tried browns / clears / greys but I would imagine that the "bump" in these types of switches, I would prefer one to have a HUGE bump.

Thanks for any replies.

[falkentyne]

Have you ever used a cherry MX clear or a cherry MX Brown?
(Never mind, you said you didn't).

Browns have a VERY light bump, that can barely be noticed, depending on the batch.  My Logitech g910+ has more feedback on the tactile bump on the browns than my ducky shine 3 or 4 do.  One of the shine 3's barely had any feedback at all on left shift, w and r. (this was around the time that Logitech had snapped up a huge shipment of browns so maybe there were shortages and QA issues). But yeah, the browns only have the bump to give you an idea of when you are pressing.

MX clears and tactile greys indeed have a much thicker bump (the stem/shaft is the same).

As you know, browns have the same bump actuation and release point (the actual switch activation is different from the bump..the switch activates below the bump on all tactile switches (if you push it slowly enough you will find that out), but activates on "clicky" switches at the point of the click itself (but on clickies like mx green/blue, you can reactivate the switch again, under the 'reset' point if you move it up slowly enough).  the so-called "hysteresis" is due to the actuation and release points of the click and tactility being at different positions, even though the actual electrical ACTIVATION of the switch is at the exact same point in the travel. 

Since the MX blue/green isn't in the same class as mx brown/clear/tactile grey, we'll discuss the latter.
MX browns have a light spring and the spring force does not increase past the tactile bump (well it does but very slightly).

MX clears and tactile greys are different.
They both use the exact same stem, so the switch behavior is the same on both.  The only difference is in the weight.
Tactile greys are a much heavier version of clears.  Much like MX reds to blacks, or MX blues to greens.

Both switches gain more resistance constantly, the further the switch is pressed, instead of requiring almost the same force all the way down (like browns do; browns, besides the tactile bump, require about the same force to start pressing and to bottom out ,while greys/clears/tactile greys all increase linearly in force).  If you bottom out on MX clears, you will NOT be bottoming out on MX tactile greys.

Try a mx tactile grey keyboard if you want something heavier than clears but love the way clears feel.  I think you'll be satisfied.

[illitirit]

Have you ever used a cherry MX clear or a cherry MX Brown?
(Never mind, you said you didn't).

Browns have a VERY light bump, that can barely be noticed, depending on the batch.  My Logitech g910+ has more feedback on the tactile bump on the browns than my ducky shine 3 or 4 do.  One of the shine 3's barely had any feedback at all on left shift, w and r. (this was around the time that Logitech had snapped up a huge shipment of browns so maybe there were shortages and QA issues). But yeah, the browns only have the bump to give you an idea of when you are pressing.

MX clears and tactile greys indeed have a much thicker bump (the stem/shaft is the same).


As you know, browns have the same bump actuation and release point (the actual switch activation is different from the bump..the switch activates below the bump on all tactile switches (if you push it slowly enough you will find that out), but activates on "clicky" switches at the point of the click itself (but on clickies like mx green/blue, you can reactivate the switch again, under the 'reset' point if you move it up slowly enough).  the so-called "hysteresis" is due to the actuation and release points of the click and tactility being at different positions, even though the actual electrical ACTIVATION of the switch is at the exact same point in the travel. 

Since the MX blue/green isn't in the same class as mx brown/clear/tactile grey, we'll discuss the latter.
MX browns have a light spring and the spring force does not increase past the tactile bump (well it does but very slightly).

MX clears and tactile greys are different.
They both use the exact same stem, so the switch behavior is the same on both.  The only difference is in the weight.
Tactile greys are a much heavier version of clears.  Much like MX reds to blacks, or MX blues to greens.

Both switches gain more resistance constantly, the further the switch is pressed, instead of requiring almost the same force all the way down (like browns do; browns, besides the tactile bump, require about the same force to start pressing and to bottom out ,while greys/clears/tactile greys all increase linearly in force).  If you bottom out on MX clears, you will NOT be bottoming out on MX tactile greys.

Try a mx tactile grey keyboard if you want something heavier than clears but love the way clears feel.  I think you'll be satisfied.

Hey thanks for the write up! much appreciated.  Unfortunately I know nobody with a tactile grey or clear keyboard so my chance of trying these switches is probably slim to none without spending some $$$$ for a switch tester.

I think I would really enjoy tactile greys to be honest since I love hard keypresses.  I bottom out every stroke with cherry MX greens.  I dont think I would like browns very much as they are extremely light.

[Dihedral]

Have you ever used a cherry MX clear or a cherry MX Brown?
(Never mind, you said you didn't).

Browns have a VERY light bump, that can barely be noticed, depending on the batch.  My Logitech g910+ has more feedback on the tactile bump on the browns than my ducky shine 3 or 4 do.  One of the shine 3's barely had any feedback at all on left shift, w and r. (this was around the time that Logitech had snapped up a huge shipment of browns so maybe there were shortages and QA issues). But yeah, the browns only have the bump to give you an idea of when you are pressing.

MX clears and tactile greys indeed have a much thicker bump (the stem/shaft is the same).


As you know, browns have the same bump actuation and release point (the actual switch activation is different from the bump..the switch activates below the bump on all tactile switches (if you push it slowly enough you will find that out), but activates on "clicky" switches at the point of the click itself (but on clickies like mx green/blue, you can reactivate the switch again, under the 'reset' point if you move it up slowly enough).  the so-called "hysteresis" is due to the actuation and release points of the click and tactility being at different positions, even though the actual electrical ACTIVATION of the switch is at the exact same point in the travel. 

Since the MX blue/green isn't in the same class as mx brown/clear/tactile grey, we'll discuss the latter.
MX browns have a light spring and the spring force does not increase past the tactile bump (well it does but very slightly).

MX clears and tactile greys are different.
They both use the exact same stem, so the switch behavior is the same on both.  The only difference is in the weight.
Tactile greys are a much heavier version of clears.  Much like MX reds to blacks, or MX blues to greens.

Both switches gain more resistance constantly, the further the switch is pressed, instead of requiring almost the same force all the way down (like browns do; browns, besides the tactile bump, require about the same force to start pressing and to bottom out ,while greys/clears/tactile greys all increase linearly in force).  If you bottom out on MX clears, you will NOT be bottoming out on MX tactile greys.

Try a mx tactile grey keyboard if you want something heavier than clears but love the way clears feel.  I think you'll be satisfied.

Hey thanks for the write up! much appreciated.  Unfortunately I know nobody with a tactile grey or clear keyboard so my chance of trying these switches is probably slim to none without spending some $$$$ for a switch tester.

I think I would really enjoy tactile greys to be honest since I love hard keypresses.  I bottom out every stroke with cherry MX greens.  I dont think I would like browns very much as they are extremely light.

The thing is that because tactile greys are harder, the bump feels less. It might be worth going for clears if you want a really noticeable bump. They are still fairly heavy and have enough weight to make bottoming out feel good.

[falkentyne]

The bump is the same and it feels the same.
I have both on my ducky shine 69 fire, right now.
And I'm pressing them.
In fact if anything, the tactile greys have a MORE pronounced bump than the clears do (on some of the keys).

I'm testing both right now!

[illitirit]

The bump is the same and it feels the same.
I have both on my ducky shine 69 fire, right now.
And I'm pressing them.
In fact if anything, the tactile greys have a MORE pronounced bump than the clears do (on some of the keys).

I'm testing both right now!

very interesting.  Do you think for someone who likes cherry greens and would like them to be a tad stiffer, would the clears or tactile greys be the better choice?

[falkentyne]

I would NOT use the tactile greys for gaming.   The bottom out force on greys is I think 120 cn?  They are WAY too heavy to game on.

I LOVE MX greens for gaming because I like a fun switch (I probably wouldn't mind MX blues, either, but I read a lot of reports about 'inconsistent' MX blues) so the ducky shine 69 was for me (greens on letters, blues on shift and space=perfect for me).

The MX green has an actuation force of 80 cn, and this remains about the same as you bottom out.
The MX blue has an actuation forceo of 50 cn.

The MX clears behave very differently than the other MX Switches.  The other switches keep close to the same pressure at the beginning (pre bump) to the end of the switch, with heavy or light resistance at the bump.
The MX clear has an actuation force of 55 cn, tactile force of 65 cn, and peak force (bottoming out) of 95 cn.
Since the clear and tactile grey are the same switch, and the tactile grey has an actuation force of 80 cn, I think you can easily see that the maximum peak force is 120 cn at bottoming out.

You won't be bottoming out on these.  I think you will like them, IF you like a heavy switch.
The MX clears feel 'strange' to me. because they start out light (literally like blues/browns) then get heavy at the end, so they feel sort of mushy early.  That early mushy feel feels strange.  That does not happen with the greys, as they start out the same as greens in force.

Tactile grey keyboards are hard to find.  Definitely try one and report back.  Remember they start out the same force as greens, don't make noise (no click, just the bump) but the pressure linearly increases.  Hope you like them!

[illitirit]

I would NOT use the tactile greys for gaming.   The bottom out force on greys is I think 120 cn?  They are WAY too heavy to game on.

I LOVE MX greens for gaming because I like a fun switch (I probably wouldn't mind MX blues, either, but I read a lot of reports about 'inconsistent' MX blues) so the ducky shine 69 was for me (greens on letters, blues on shift and space=perfect for me).

The MX green has an actuation force of 80 cn, and this remains about the same as you bottom out.
The MX blue has an actuation forceo of 50 cn.

The MX clears behave very differently than the other MX Switches.  The other switches keep close to the same pressure at the beginning (pre bump) to the end of the switch, with heavy or light resistance at the bump.
The MX clear has an actuation force of 55 cn, tactile force of 65 cn, and peak force (bottoming out) of 95 cn.
Since the clear and tactile grey are the same switch, and the tactile grey has an actuation force of 80 cn, I think you can easily see that the maximum peak force is 120 cn at bottoming out.

You won't be bottoming out on these.  I think you will like them, IF you like a heavy switch.
The MX clears feel 'strange' to me. because they start out light (literally like blues/browns) then get heavy at the end, so they feel sort of mushy early.  That early mushy feel feels strange.  That does not happen with the greys, as they start out the same as greens in force.

Tactile grey keyboards are hard to find.  Definitely try one and report back.  Remember they start out the same force as greens, don't make noise (no click, just the bump) but the pressure linearly increases.  Hope you like them!

I will def report back, i think for now i will get the grey ones, if i really dont like them I will solder them out to clears.

[falkentyne]

There are only two TACTILE Greys that I can find.
Even the search on mechanicalkeyboards.com only yields "DARK GREY" which are linears.
Maybe another manufacturer has them, but these are the only two that are tactile greys.

http://www.mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=981
http://www.mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=980

Maybe there are others on wasd or another site.

[Dihedral]

There are only two TACTILE Greys that I can find.
Even the search on mechanicalkeyboards.com only yields "DARK GREY" which are linears.
Maybe another manufacturer has them, but these are the only two that are tactile greys.

http://www.mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=981
http://www.mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=980

Maybe there are others on wasd or another site.

Zeal stocks tgem

[katushkin]

http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=719

Just solder them out.

I have a board with tactile greys and I wouldn't recommend them for gaming. They really aren't comparable with MX Greens though.

[taylordcraig]

You'll likely enjoy greys if you bottom out on greens. I bottom out on greens and have opted for 100 and 120g springs in my switches.

edit to clarify: They will not feel the same. But I enjoy greens and also enjoy greys.

[caseyandgina]

Is there a clicky switch with the heavy spring of the tactile grey switches?

[Dihedral]

Is there a clicky switch with the heavy spring of the tactile grey switches?

MX Green.. right?

[falkentyne]

No,
greys are a switch that increases in force linearly with distance.
Greens only increase at the actuation point, then past the tactile bump, there's a sharp decrease that does not really increase at all until the bottom out.  This is somewhere between 80-95g
With tactile greys, there's the sharp increase at the bump, then the dropoff, but the resistance ramps up sharply and steadily until you reach the bottom out point, which is 120g.  That's a -big- difference from a MX green, even though both start off the same (at 80g).  The tactile grey has an actuation force of 80g, tactile force of 90g, and bottom out force of 120g.  Far different than a green (actuation 80g)

[Joey Quinn]

To me tactile greys feel much heavier than greens, you should try a single switch or find a board to type on before buying them.

[caseyandgina]

I have a keyboard with Greens now though I have found that I prefer Blues.  I am intrigued by tactile greys though and would love an opportunity to try them.

[alexofthewest]

They sell grey switches themselves on mechanical keyboard.com, cheaper if you buy them in bulk. I used greys to create my ergos since clears are the same stem but always sold out. Stock greys have the heaviest spring I am aware of so if that is what you want then greys are the switch for you. But I imagine you could use a harder spring for your greens to make something you love just like I used a softer spring for my greys

[KHAANNN]

If you are capable of loving green's, I think you might enjoy any switch but browns

As a green lover myself, the tactile grays were unnecessarily stiff when tested individually, the clears were satisfactory on all placements, yet individual tests are misleading, so I believe falkentyne, however from my own experiments, the bump was felt less, as the stem is the same, yet the activation requirements are higher, so the bump gets absorbed

with this logic, ergo clears would have the most pronounced bumps