So Who Got It? IBM 4683

[Aer Fixus]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/131487080490

First off, did anyone here get it?

Secondly, what do you think it is? I'm fairly certain that it's a Model M.

Why it could be a Model F:
-Near identical layout to the F AT (long spacebar, bigass enter)

Why it could be a Model M:
-Wedge shape
-It has nubs on the F, J and 5 keys (I asked the seller)

The nubs alone have convinced me that it's a Model M. To my knowledge, there are no Model F with factory nubs on them. And every Model M I've seen (aside from the 49/50 keys) have had nubs. Even my early M122 has nubs.

Hopefully the buyer will give us some in-depth pictures and disassembly!

[snoopy]

wtf... thats cool. never saw it before

[chyros]

Dafucque.

It's got a goddamn LOCK on it. A LOCK. That's awesome!

I like the little cover on some of the keys too. REALLY doesn't look like a Model M to me though Oo .

[jdcarpe]

I saw this when it was active on eBay, but I didn't bid on it. Seemed interesting.

[wlhlm]

Dafucque.

It's got a goddamn LOCK on it. A LOCK. That's awesome!

I like the little cover on some of the keys too. REALLY doesn't look like a Model M to me though Oo .

What about 5 locks:

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[chyros]

Dafucque.

It's got a goddamn LOCK on it. A LOCK. That's awesome!

I like the little cover on some of the keys too. REALLY doesn't look like a Model M to me though Oo .

What about 5 locks:

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WOW. What the actual ****. That's sick :D .

[E TwentyNine]

Figured someone here got it, waiting for them to show up...

[wlhlm]

Figured someone here got it, waiting for them to show up...

Could as well be someone at Deskthority.

[Aer Fixus]

wtf... thats cool. never saw it before

Me too. That's why I put the bid in that I did. Still didn't get it, though.

Dafucque.

It's got a goddamn LOCK on it. A LOCK. That's awesome!

I like the little cover on some of the keys too. REALLY doesn't look like a Model M to me though Oo .

It's a point of sale keyboard so the lock is standard. Still really cool.

And I'm 95% certain that it's buckling springs. It has the right curve, the keys are the exact right shape and even has stepped keycaps. The layout is nearly identical to the Model F AT, down to the swapped control and caps lock. Even the relegendable ones are right. The only uncertainty is with the potential to be rubber dome underneath like a 71G. Compared to the other IBM POS keyboards I've seen, I really think it's buckling spring.

Of course, that's my opinion and I could be entirely wrong.

[Ludovician]

It's almost certainly BS. The question is, is it capBS or membrane BS?

[derezzed]

Dafucque.

It's got a goddamn LOCK on it. A LOCK. That's awesome!

I like the little cover on some of the keys too. REALLY doesn't look like a Model M to me though Oo .

What about 5 locks:

More

Show Image

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Put two more locks on it and it could be the keyboard of the apocalypse.

[Touch_It]

https://books.google.com/books?id=mNYL8b0kUnIC&pg=PA38&lpg=PA38&dq=ibm+4683+keyboard&source=bl&ots=02EYaGL5Le&sig=14DyfS4WuoZ0502YMee7zwUOQxA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=AWU0VebOAsvAggTdwYCwCQ&ved=0CEwQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=ibm%204683%20keyboard&f=false

Maybe this will help.  Seems to have some info on the system and refers to it as PC AT.  So maybe model F?

[Aer Fixus]

https://books.google.com/books?id=mNYL8b0kUnIC&pg=PA38&lpg=PA38&dq=ibm+4683+keyboard&source=bl&ots=02EYaGL5Le&sig=14DyfS4WuoZ0502YMee7zwUOQxA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=AWU0VebOAsvAggTdwYCwCQ&ved=0CEwQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=ibm%204683%20keyboard&f=false

Maybe this will help.  Seems to have some info on the system and refers to it as PC AT.  So maybe model F?

If the person who got it shows the disassembly and it turns out to Model F, I will be so disappointed (and oddly happy at the same time that I was wrong and we have another Model F variant to chase after). If it weren't a gamble and it were to know 100% that it was a Model F when I bid, I would have put so much more money down... The gamble was too much, though. Especially for a poor college student. (On the plus side, I can finally get an xwhatsit for my Kishsaver and later my F107)

[Touch_It]

I just hope the mystery is revealed.  I will ask on deskthority and see what turns up

[Aer Fixus]

I just hope the mystery is revealed.  I will ask on deskthority and see what turns up

As do I. Knowledge is more important than my selfish desires.

[joc]

I posted some information about the keyboard here.

[Parak]

I admit to getting it, as I didn't want it to really be official until I had it in my grubby hands. Anyway, some preliminary pictures:



Nice condition - looks pretty much unused other than the labels and two missing caps.



Looks like an SIO port of unknown protocol (RS-485 possibly), and something else.



Made by our better and nicer neighbors.



As I suspected (with slightly lesser chance of rubber dome and almost no chance of capbs), it's a membrane type BS. Spacebar is rather interesting though - quite light and smooth, and obviously they improved on the AT's crappiness by using normal stabilizer wire. I can't readily remove it however, as something seems to be holding it attached. Will have to wait for the overall disassembly.. maybe sometime this weekend.

Preliminary thoughts: Interesting curio, and another completely unknown to us IBM board surfaces. My previous one was almost a year ago, but hopefully there are still bizarro boards out there

[CPTBadAss]

Haha, not surprised Parak ended up with it. Glad it went to a good home.

[Aer Fixus]

I'm glad someone got it who will appreciate it and share the disassembly.

And my nub theory is holding up so far. (If it has nubs it's a Model M. If it has no nubs, the chances are high that it's an F). Might be helpful to someone at some point.

[Jotokun]

And my nub theory is holding up so far. (If it has nubs it's a Model M. If it has no nubs, the chances are high that it's an F). Might be helpful to someone at some point.

IBM Wheelwriter? Both of mine are membrane BS and lack nubs. Then again, as typewriters they might be an exception.

[1391406]

What are nubs?

[Touch_It]

What are nubs?

The little bumps on the F and I keys on the home row.

[1391406]

Thanks.

[Touch_It]

Thanks.

just saw I said I instead of I.  Damon autocorrect.

[XMIT]

Well at least a fellow crazy got it.  I'm looking forward to disassembly photos...

...hopefully with something a little nicer than a Nexus 5! EXIF data (which is awesome) tells me this is what you used for the above photos.

[E TwentyNine]

Thanks.

just saw I said I instead of I.  Damon autocorrect.

Who the hell is Damon Autocorrect?  Is he the guy that invented the white correcting tape for typewriters?

 

(For the record he meant F and J keys.)

[Techno Trousers]

But he said F and I twice!

I'd put in a lowish snipe bid on this, since I was about 80% certain it was membrane BS rather than capacitive, and I definitely don't need any more Model Ms! I am curious to see the full writeup on it though.

[nubbinator]

What are nubs?

I are!

[ramnes]

Awesome, Parak!

Too bad it's not capacitive, though. 

[Aer Fixus]

And my nub theory is holding up so far. (If it has nubs it's a Model M. If it has no nubs, the chances are high that it's an F). Might be helpful to someone at some point.

IBM Wheelwriter? Both of mine are membrane BS and lack nubs. Then again, as typewriters they might be an exception.

Indeed you are correct. I was thinking about that as I made the post (hence saying high chances for F, not a guarantee). So far it's the only exception, but of course it means the method isn't perfect and can't be the only method someone uses if they want to be 100%. Plus, the method isn't perfect anyway because someone could have just swapped keycaps, although that's very uncommon from what I've seen.

I'm just trying to think of a way to help identify IBM unicorns as they arise because they don't always have metal bottom plates. It's come up a few times in the past (the mislabeled Bigfoot boards, the M122/F122s photographed at wrong angles, the kishsavers before Kishy revealed their what they were, and now this board) so I can see more information on how to identify F as being useful. Because, for me at least, I want Model F boards of all kinds but am much less enthusiastic for Model M boards (and I have enough of them as it is...)

[Parak]

Well at least a fellow crazy got it.  I'm looking forward to disassembly photos...

...hopefully with something a little nicer than a Nexus 5! EXIF data (which is awesome) tells me this is what you used for the above photos.

But I am the lazy... also hey, no peeking at the EXIF! Kya, so embarrassing, Sempai is looking at my tags~

[Parak]

Moar pics:







Tool-less case disassembly - just two push clips on the top, and it hinges open. The controller board is held in place by a single screw from the bottom of the case.

All rivets are intact. Spacebar is definitely looking unique to this particular keyboard so far, . Speaker/lock/LED connectors are rather neat, in that they require very little insertion/removal force compared to typical header connectors. Seems to have been made in 1988 or thereabouts. Also, foil shield on the bottom - who knows why.

Maybe I'll get it working as the next step at some point

[E TwentyNine]

Are there pads for the modifiers directly on either side of the spacebar there below the barrels?  Looks like the spacing is correct for that setup.

I'm guessing the foil shield is for some mandated RF interference guidelines in a business environment, something along those lines.

[chyros]

Looks cool! Even has the speaker in it, I see. Does that do anything? However, what's so unusual about that spacebar? Oo

[Aer Fixus]

Cool pictures. I've found the dates on my IBM boards to be a year or two "newer" than the internal dates. IIRC, my '86 barcode M has an internal date of '85 (printed in a similar manner to beam springs and model F, on a piece of cloth). My Kishsaver is similar, with an earlier internal date. It makes great sense, especially if everything didn;t happen in one factory.

And I'm sure this is common sense, but the pins that that switch goes to might need to be shorted for the controller to work.

Is the connection SDL or something else? If it's SDL, it likely supports AT (or at least terminal or XT, which are both convertible with a Soarer's). The whole assembly looks like a modified wheelwriter assembly (all the way down to the shorted, but not used bits of the membrane/ribbon).

However, what's so unusual about that spacebar? Oo

The spacebar is the length of the one on an F XT, so it's quite long (7u + 1.5u + 1.5u = 10u).

[engicoder]

This is an ANPOS (Alpha-Numeric Point Of Sale) keyboard. Its an optional keyboard for the 4683 POS Systems. I've never seen this specific model before, but most ANPOS boards from that era are AT/PS2. A few are RS-485. I use to work for the IBM POS division years ago. I asked around a little and talked with some of the hardware guys about this board. Unfortunately the ANPOS guy from that time was away. I will hopefully get in touch with him this coming week and we can get some info on how and why this board came to be. The history I do have is that when 4680 debuted in the 80's a 50 key keyboard with no alphas was the standard. It was a rubber dome design licensed to and manufactured by SMK. Very soon customers requested keyboards with alpha numeric capability, and IBM created the ANPOS line of keyboards. I suspect that while they developed a new design using the rubber dome tech (which was very new at the time), they contracted with the PC division to get something out to customers.
   

[dorkvader]

I use to work for the IBM POS division years ago.
   

can you tell me why so many of them use wider-than-normal SDL connectors, even for a kb that only is outputting normal PS/2 ?

[engicoder]

I use to work for the IBM POS division years ago.
   

can you tell me why so many of them use wider-than-normal SDL connectors, even for a kb that only is outputting normal PS/2 ?

I don't know the answer to that first hand. I will be sure to ask when I talk to the hardware guys again. My cynical side says that it was to force retailers into purchasing cables from IBM. These were the days when the IBM philosophy was that you made money on hardware and not software.

[orihalcon]

I've looked at some other IBM POS boards and even much more recent ones do use the 8 pin SDL cable, I believe for PS/2 WEDGE function, so maybe there was either a secondary keyboard or a barcode scanner that had incoming input which would explain the extra pins.  You'd actually only need 6 pins, but IBM had reserved those other ones on the 6 pin SDL for mouse data like the M5-2 with trackball would have used.

My guess is that one of these will work:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/251801534046

[ander]

A few more of these types of boards just went up on eBay w/starting prices of $5.00:

IBM 469x

IBM 4683

IBM 4683 <--looks considerably different though

[Touch_It]

A few more of these types of boards just went up on eBay w/starting prices of $5.00:

IBM 469x

IBM 4683

IBM 4683 <--looks considerably different though

I had saw these.  They look different.  I could be wrong, but my thinking was tat these were RD.

[Aer Fixus]

A few more of these types of boards just went up on eBay w/starting prices of $5.00:

IBM 469x

IBM 4683

IBM 4683 <--looks considerably different though

I had saw these.  They look different.  I could be wrong, but my thinking was tat these were RD.

Yeah. They certainly aren't buckling spring. BS boards have a distinct curve and keycap shape.

Comparing other BS vs similar non-BS boards, you can see this:

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Now compare that to the eBay boards we've seen:

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Edit: originally used spoiler instead of more.... derp.

[ander]

Well, the KB in the OP didn't look as F-like as those. But yes, now that I compare it with those I pointed to, the OP does look decidedly more buckling-spring. Sorry for the false alert!

[Aer Fixus]

I guess I just stare at IBM keyboards too much.

And the examples are F, but the same can be seen on M, these are just the examples I could think of off the top of my head.

[chyros]

A few more of these types of boards just went up on eBay w/starting prices of $5.00:

IBM 469x

IBM 4683

IBM 4683 <--looks considerably different though

I had saw these.  They look different.  I could be wrong, but my thinking was tat these were RD.

Yeah. They certainly aren't buckling spring. BS boards have a distinct curve and keycap shape.

You mean in this model, or in general? Because I can think of a BS board without a curve ( http://deskthority.net/wiki/IBM_Selectric_Touch_Keyboard )

[Aer Fixus]

You mean in this model, or in general? Because I can think of a BS board without a curve ( http://deskthority.net/wiki/IBM_Selectric_Touch_Keyboard )

I suppose I did mean in general. Not quite sure what I was thinking when I made the statement. The M2, M15 and [select] 5576 boards all break the curve and distinct keycap shape idea.

Incidentally, I just noticed that Unicomp's Endurapro (and Ultra Classic) case is the same as the 5576-C01.

[CPTBadAss]

I use to work for the IBM POS division years ago.

Poor fella. Doesn't know what he just got himself into. All the IBMHeads are about to blow up your inbox.

[alh84001]

Sorry for necroing, but that is one interesting board, so it should be pushed to the top every now and then for those who missed it 

Also, it reminds me of another AT layout membrane BS board, but that one has no lock.

[orihalcon]

I have one of these as well and put a new lock and key in it. The space bar on mine is broken unfortunately. I'm thinking that I'm going to put model F AT guts into the case which I am pretty sure will fit with some modifications to the F AT top plate. Just another thing on my long list of projects that someday I'll get to hopefully. The case is kind of interesting given that does not use screws to hold together. Makes it a bit less solid though.