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Author Topic: Adjusting to MX Black stiffness?  (Read 1752 times)

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Offline Ludovician

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Adjusting to MX Black stiffness?
« on: Sun, 19 April 2015, 19:25:57 »
So, I received my Noppoo Choc Mini today, which I was expecting to have reds. Turns out the seller mislabelled it, and the one I received has blacks. So far I'm not a fan of the weight of these keys, but on the plus side it does seem like I can type without bottoming out on every press using them.

So what should I do with this? Ask the seller for a refund? Adjust to the stiff keys and see if I end up liking them? Trade it for one with different switches?
Thanks.

Edit: Also this thing seems to be experiencing some key chatter.
« Last Edit: Sun, 19 April 2015, 22:56:52 by Ludovician »
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Offline Novus

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Re: Adjusting to MX Black stiffness?
« Reply #1 on: Sun, 19 April 2015, 21:07:10 »
Flip a coin. Heads you email the buyer and tails you keep it.
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Offline rowdy

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Re: Adjusting to MX Black stiffness?
« Reply #2 on: Sun, 19 April 2015, 22:24:50 »
I prefer stiffer switches.  I started with blues, when got blacks, then got reds for comparison.  I found the reds ok to begin with, but after I got greens I just couldn't use the reds any more.

For me it's a case of liking stiffer switches (HHKB being an exception).

I'm currently mostly buckling spring though, and loving it :)

It might also depend on how strong your fingers are, and whether you experience any finger, hand or wrist pain whilst using the stiffer springs.  A lot of people do.
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Offline Ludovician

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Re: Adjusting to MX Black stiffness?
« Reply #3 on: Sun, 19 April 2015, 22:56:36 »
I guess I just find the feeling of it a bit unfamiliar, since I'm used to bottoming out on every press, and blacks have more resistance than I'm used to in most boards, except perhaps my Model M which doesn't feel fatiguing at all, and my RF87 55g.
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Offline rowdy

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Re: Adjusting to MX Black stiffness?
« Reply #4 on: Mon, 20 April 2015, 02:03:12 »
I like the blacks, but there are blacks and blacks.

My old Link terminal keyboard (terminal still works!) has MX blacks, and they are as smooth as.

My QFR also has blacks, and they are stiff and strong.

My Ducky Shine 3 Yellow Edition also has MX blacks, and they feel very scratchy.

I also bottom out on everything I use.
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"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

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Offline azhdar

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Re: Adjusting to MX Black stiffness?
« Reply #5 on: Mon, 20 April 2015, 02:17:02 »
Give it at least a week before sending it back.
Once you go black you never go back.

I bought my first black just to try it, I know own 3 mx blacks keyboards, and have a bunch of black switches (mx or gaterons) in the closted waiting for new boards.
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Offline Ludovician

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Re: Adjusting to MX Black stiffness?
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 20 April 2015, 02:22:14 »
Quote from: azhdar on Mon, 20 April 2015, 02:17:02
Give it at least a week before sending it back.
Once you go black you never go back.

Does it compare favourably with Topre or BS? Those are my preferences.

I've put it back in the cupboard for now. Back on my RF 55g.
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Offline azhdar

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Re: Adjusting to MX Black stiffness?
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 20 April 2015, 02:30:43 »
Quote from: Ludovician on Mon, 20 April 2015, 02:22:14
Quote from: azhdar on Mon, 20 April 2015, 02:17:02
Give it at least a week before sending it back.
Once you go black you never go back.

Does it compare favourably with Topre or BS? Those are my preferences.

I've put it back in the cupboard for now. Back on my RF 55g.

I have very limited experience with Topre and BS.
I've only one Model M (picking up an SSK at Post Office today \o/ ), and have only tested the topre on the novatouch so I couldn't say.

Topre on the NT felt ok to me because it was snappy but too light, I like BS on the M though.
I think trying heavy linear switch on a cheap board like a noopoo won't give you a clear perspective of the switches.

You should try some gaterons if you want to try linears. They are the linear eldorado.
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Offline Ludovician

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Re: Adjusting to MX Black stiffness?
« Reply #8 on: Mon, 20 April 2015, 02:33:46 »
Yeah, in this case I think the keyboard itself is more at fault than the switches. Blacks seem like they'd be quite pleasant in a good board but the Choc Mini just seems to be of poor quality.

As for Topre, you should try to get your hands on a RF 55g for a bit. I haven't tried plate-mounted 45g (NT is plate-mounted, right?) but I have the HHKB and the 55g RF. They feel completely different, because of the weight difference and the plate. The RF feels very solid.
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Offline azhdar

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Re: Adjusting to MX Black stiffness?
« Reply #9 on: Mon, 20 April 2015, 02:41:24 »
I enjoyed the first mx blacks I tried, they were new and plate mounted to a poker2. But after trying some "used" mx blacks on a pcb mounted keyboard, I realised they felt so much better. And Gaterons changed the experience of linear for the best.

I want to try 55g Topre for a while now but the RF 55 only come in ANSI, and if I were to like it (I really believe I will), my wallet would be doomed by having to buy an ISO RF to dome swap with a RF 55.
But a buddy of mine is getting a 55g domes HHKB so I'll know soon.

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Offline Ludovician

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Re: Adjusting to MX Black stiffness?
« Reply #10 on: Mon, 20 April 2015, 02:44:03 »
Which Gateron switch would you recommend? I may eventually do a custom build of some sort and it would be interesting to try them.
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Offline azhdar

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Re: Adjusting to MX Black stiffness?
« Reply #11 on: Mon, 20 April 2015, 02:46:08 »
Blacks all the way.
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Offline Oobly

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Re: Adjusting to MX Black stiffness?
« Reply #12 on: Tue, 21 April 2015, 01:36:22 »
Return the board for a refund. The Choc Mini has a poorly implemented debounce that causes chatter. It seems that even adjusting the debounce timing (using Fn+F11 or something?) doesn't solve it.

IMHO, the best weight for linears is 65g/67g or so. I use 62g springs in them, though, since that's my favourite for Clears and I already have a bunch. Red springs are too light, Black springs are too hard. I suspect that Gateron linears with 62g/65g/67g springs would feel REALLY nice (smooth stems, perfect strength spring).
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Offline Skechup

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Re: Adjusting to MX Black stiffness?
« Reply #13 on: Tue, 21 April 2015, 13:55:22 »
Blacks are a good switch but are too stiff for my liking.

As other said, give it a week and see if you like it. If you do keep it but if you don't, just email them. I am pretty sure they should reply to you and give you a refund or send you a keyboard with Red switches.
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