Question for Model M users

[Bojan]

For the last two years I've been using Das Keyboard with blue switches. A month ago I spilled a protein shake on it, and it didn't survive (I disassembled it, cleaned it, let it dry - but it's simply dead  ).

I can't afford new mechanical keyboard, so I tried going back to my old Microsoft Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000. After few keystrokes I learned that once you go mechanical, there's no going back. Being desperate, I mentioned this to my father, who said "wait right there", and two hours later brought me an old IBM Model M that he had in his basement.

It's an 1393669, built by IBM in UK, in 1993. Very nice keyboard. I'm in love. Except that my fingers have troubles adapting to it. My pinky hurts hell after 5 minutes of typing, and all other fingers become stiff.

My question for everyone who switched from other keyboards to Model M is: did you have same problems with pain in fingers, and if you did, did it go away after some time?

[snoopy]

It takes some time to get used to it. Like training for your fingers. But after some time you will love it and you won't go back to cherry crap.

(and if you start to like it, try Model F)

[Den441]

I think I have pretty weak hands. I did take me awhile to get used to my SSK from Cherry reds. A couple weeks maybe. Now though, buckling springs are hands down my favorite switch. They have also made me appreciate Cherry greens a lot more.

[chyros]

Buckling springs are much stiffer than Cherry MX blues. It shouldn't take too long to adapt, though, I'd think .

[Snowdog993]

Being desperate, I mentioned this to my father, who said "wait right there", and two hours later brought me an old IBM Model M that he had in his basement.

It's an 1393669, built by IBM in UK, in 1993. Very nice keyboard. I'm in love. Except that my fingers have troubles adapting to it. My pinky hurts hell after 5 minutes of typing, and all other fingers become stiff.

My question for everyone who switched from other keyboards to Model M is: did you have same problems with pain in fingers, and if you did, did it go away after some time?

Well, it shouldn't take you too long to adjust from blues to a Model M.  As far as your fingers becoming stiff, you might want to adjust the angle of the keyboard itself.  That is, if you have the legs extended, you might want to try it with the legs down instead (or vice-versa).

Perhaps you will get another keyboard in the future.  Just stick with it until you can get that new keyboard you really like.  Your father is ultra-cool to find it and give it to you!  Lucky!

Maybe you can find someone who will do a trade with you on that keyboard.  I am sure there are plenty of people here who will gladly trade a MX Blue keyboard for what you have. 

[rowdy]

My fingers are quite strong and I bottom out on every keyboard I use.

It did not take much time at all for me to become accustomed to a Model M,and is now my keyboard of choice.

[Bojan]

Your father is ultra-cool to find it and give it to you!  Lucky!

Yes he is.  He keeps tons of interesting hardware.  My mother is mad about it   Luckily, my wife likes gadgets (especially old gadgets).

Maybe you can find someone who will do a trade with you on that keyboard.  I am sure there are plenty of people here who will gladly trade a MX Blue keyboard for what you have.

Shipping costs from (and to) Croatia are huge.  When I bought Das Keyboard, I paid $80 of shipping costs and $45 of import duties.  I'll try to get used to buckling springs.

and if you start to like it, try Model F

Model Ms can be found in Croatia, but I haven't seen a Model F, so I would have to import it. So probably not.

Thank you for all your answers, I can see that this is a very nice community where I feel like home. I will keep you informed about my adventure with Model M.

[SneakyRobb]

You must unlearn what you have learned.

[Snowdog993]

You must unlearn what you have learned.

The force is weak with this one, Obi-Wan.

[Bojan]

You must unlearn what you have learned.

Master SneakyRobb, elaborate could you, hmm?

[ander]

I can't afford new mechanical keyboard, so I tried going back to my old Microsoft Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000. After few keystrokes I learned that once you go mechanical, there's no going back...

LOL, that sounds familiar. But there's nothing bad about one's standards going up!

I'm sorry to hear about your adjustment problems. I don't think there's anything wrong with you or your Model M. As with any new physical task, you're just asking parts of your body to do a bit more work than they were used to, so it needs some time to adjust. (Remember, 90-pound secretaries typed on these all through the '90s!)

You could try a KB with some of the lighter Cherry switches instead, as people have suggested here. But having gone through the same thing you have—and having no regrets at all—I suggest you give your Model M more of a chance. Start by typing on it just a minute or two at a time, a few times a day, then gradually lengthen that time till you're used to it. Before you know it, your M will feel utterly normal (and great!) to you, and boring rubber-dome KBs will feel like you're typing on oatmeal, as they should.  :?)

[Bojan]

You could try a KB with some of the lighter Cherry switches instead

You missed few details in my first post (my previous keyboard was Das Keyboard with Cherry MX blue switches). Nevertheless, it's great to hear that you adjusted to buckling springs despite problems similar to mine

[ander]

You missed few details in my first post (my previous keyboard was Das Keyboard with Cherry MX blue switches).

Oh, sorry. It's pathetic, but I often have time just to scan interesting threads and try to absorb their gists. In this case I thought I saw someone recommend that you try lighter boards instead, which would be a natural response.

Nevertheless, it's great to hear that you adjusted to buckling springs despite problems similar to mine :)

Unless you have an actual physical disability, it's all about adjustment vs. forcing. Man, that's even true about marriage.  :?O

[AlexdeL]

this might help

Six Secret Keyboarding Techniques - YouTube

[Bojan]

this might help

Six Secret Keyboarding Techniques - YouTube

Thank you!

[Bojan]

Sadly, I have to give up on the Model M. I still get sharp pain in knuckles after few minutes of typing. In fact, it's getting worse - now it hurts for hours after typing. I'm pretty experienced touch typist, so I'm fairly certain that it's not up to my typing technique.

I intend to buy some keyboard based on Cherry MX Blue switches. That should end my troubles.

I want to thank everyone who has tried to help me with advice.

[Snowdog993]

Sadly, I have to give up on the Model M. I still get sharp pain in knuckles after few minutes of typing. In fact, it's getting worse - now it hurts for hours after typing. I'm pretty experienced touch typist, so I'm fairly certain that it's not up to my typing technique.

I intend to buy some keyboard based on Cherry MX Blue switches. That should end my troubles.

I want to thank everyone who has tried to help me with advice.

That's the reason for my first suggestion.  There is nobody in Croatia that has a keyboard that will trade with you there?   I hope you find a good solution.  Good luck however it goes for you!

[Bojan]

That's the reason for my first suggestion.  There is nobody in Croatia that has a keyboard that will trade with you there?   I hope you find a good solution.

Probably not. Croatia is a small and (for first world standards) relatively poor country, and most people consider mechanical keyboards too expensive, so there's almost no local shops selling them. I know one shop that does sell some, but prices are almost double of US prices.

But I have found the solution. I have just ordered Filco Majestouch 2 tenkeyless from Amazon UK. Shipping to Croatia is surprisingly only 6 GBP (for such packages it's usually at least 50 GBP), and since both Croatia and UK are EU members, there's no import duties. I will post a review as soon as Filco is delivered and tested

[ander]

Sadly, I have to give up on the Model M... I want to thank everyone who has tried to help me with advice.

At least you gave it a good shot! I hope you're happy with your blues.

You may also want to consider adding silicone o-rings to your keycaps to soften the impact and reduce noise. It's not necessary to buy the more expensive ones offered by keyboard companies; you can use any silicone rings with an inner diameter of 3/16" (4.76mm). These, for example. (With a pack of 100, just skip the keys you don't use often—e.g. Print Scrn / Scroll Lock / Pause.)

[Bojan]

At least you gave it a good shot! I hope you're happy with your blues.

You may also want to consider adding silicone o-rings to your keycaps to soften the impact and reduce noise. It's not necessary to buy the more expensive ones offered by keyboard companies; you can use any silicone rings with an inner diameter of 3/16" (4.76mm). These, for example. (With a pack of 100, just skip the keys you don't use often—e.g. Print Scrn / Scroll Lock / Pause.)

Thanks, I'll try o-rings. Pack of 100 will be just fine - I ordered tenkeyless version of Filco, so I'll have 12 spare keys .

Btw, what's interesting is that my problem with pain while typing on Model M was exactly the same like when I was typing on rubber domes (my Model M is buckling springs, not rubber dome... I checked, although it wasn't really necessary -- the noise was spectacular). My opinion on Model M and buckling springs is that although they may be robust and non-destructible, I don't see them as ergonomic. Keys are too deep and it is hard not to bottom out. I think that my pain comes from the spread of force of impact that happens when bottoming out, to knuckles. That is something that is unavoidable on rubber domes, and almost unavoidable on buckling springs. On blue switches it's relatively easy to type only a bit further after actuation point, and then stop before bottoming out and impacting with fingers (it's how I was typing on them). I'm not saying that buckling springs are bad switches, I think it's more probable that I have weak or somehow damaged tendons, muscles or joints in fingers.

[ander]

Keys are too deep and it is hard not to bottom out. I think that my pain comes from the spread of force of impact that happens when bottoming out, to knuckles. That is something that is unavoidable on rubber domes, and almost unavoidable on buckling springs. On blue switches it's relatively easy to type only a bit further after actuation point, and then stop before bottoming out and impacting with fingers...

The o-rings will help too. You can still type lightly, but when you do bottom out it'll be on something that's much softer and shock-absorbing.

[Venatorious]

My pinky hurts hell after 5 minutes of typing

If it is a UK model it has ISO I presume? I don't know if you are a native ISO user, but either way I recommend a bolt mod/ANSI conversion. Your pinky will feel much better after not having to reach so far for the left shift and enter key. If you are a native EU layout user you might not have a choice due to having to need special keys for your country.

[Bojan]

My pinky hurts hell after 5 minutes of typing

If it is a UK model it has ISO I presume? I don't know if you are a native ISO user, but either way I recommend a bolt mod/ANSI conversion. Your pinky will feel much better after not having to reach so far for the left shift and enter key. If you are a native EU layout user you might not have a choice due to having to need special keys for your country.

Yes, it is a ISO version. But in my case ANSI would be even less ergonomic, because key above ANSI enter key holds a letter from Croatian alphabet.

[Bojan]

It's been more than a year since I started this topic. Short recap: back then my Das with MX Blues was destroyed and I tried switching to IBM Model M. It didn't go well -- my fingers were extremely painful after few minutes of typing. Then I posted here looking for advice. Pain didn't go away (in fact, it took 4 months for pain to subdue!), and I bought Filco Majestouch-2 TKL with MX Blue switches. That made my life better. In the year since, I found out that I suffer from RSI (Cubital Tunnel Syndrome, on both hands).

A month ago I bought a nice IBM Model M terminal keyboard with 122 keys (very cool German layout with German legends on some keys! -- I'll post that in separate topic) for $30. I didn't plan to use it, but it was so cool that I bought it. As I bought it during work break, I brought to the office, and left it there. Two weeks later, RJ45 to USB Soarer's Converter came through mail, and I had a chance to try out the keyboard. Now, short explanation. At home, I have a very nice low office desk, which I always considered to be very ergonomic (it's low, so wrists are in pretty natural posture) -- and that's where I tried to use Model M last year. At work I have a special ergonomic keyboard tray - it's fully adjustable so I adjusted it to be even lower (it's touching my lap) and to have as much downward slope as it is possible. And when I tried that monstruos terminal Model M on that desk... the angels sang  So it seems that for the whole time, problem was in those few degrees of the keyboard's angle (I'm sure the difference is 5 degrees at most). I still feel tiredness in fingers after typing on Model M, but almost no pain - and that's compared to MX Blues which were my favorite painless switch.

Typing on IBM Model M is the best thing that ever happened to my fingers! OK, to be honest, that terminal keyboard is not very usable (an inch too wide for my keyboard tray, so I can't push the tray under the table), and my old Model M is also not very usable (3 dead keys since last year when everything worked OK, not sure what happened), but buckling springs are the best switches ever! I plan to buy Unicomp EnduraPro in beige, as soon as they'll have one in stock (I like the trackpoint -- even if it's not very good, it will still give me freedom from mouse and my RSI-suffering hands will be grateful).

I'd like to thank all of you who in May 2015 tried to persuade me not to give up from Model M. You didn't succeed at the time, but occasionally I did think about it, in part because of your words of support 

[Robert_Mauro]

So it seems that for the whole time, problem was in those few degrees of the keyboard's angle (I'm sure the difference is 5 degrees at most). I still feel tiredness in fingers after typing on Model M, but almost no pain - and that's compared to MX Blues which were my favorite painless switch...

Yes, I found that out too - early on, fortunately, since I started using them in the mid 80's. You must be at the correct height from the keyboard, your forearms at the correct height as well, and your wrists at the correct angle.

I'd suggest continuing to play with the position until you find one with no painful drawbacks. I'm currently typing this (and copious lines of code and Facebook posts) on my IBM Model M13 beige - my fingers prefer it over any other keyboard. But, when I first set it up on my new (at the time) work desk, it took a while to find "that perfect spot" for me and for it.

[benderkey]

Try a keyboard drawer.  They help a lot with getting the right angle.

[1391406]

While there's so much I love about Model M's, I do find them a bit stiff for daily use. Model F's, on the other hand, have an actuation force that's much closer to what I prefer.

[boTy]

Yes, it definitely takes some time getting used to, it's very heavy to type on, but maybe you need to build some finger muscle

[alh84001]

Well, nice to see you got the setup right, and that it doesn't get painful any more. Now it's hopefully just taking some time to build up those fingers.

I actually might have a spare F or two soon, and if you're in Zagreb, pm me, you can give them a try, and see if you like them better But beware of not being able to go back!