Are mechanical keyswitch designs better for health?

[urlwolf]

Are mechanical keyswitch designs better for health?
Most of us spend mostly every waking hour behind a computer.
I'm not sure how many people here have/had RSI problems, but in that case, do better keyswitch designs improved your time at the keyboard?
I spent the last 2 hrs getting a collection of papers in ergonomics journals dealing with keyboard design etc. But I'd love to hear it 'from the trenches'...

[spremino]

http://www.ergocanada.com/ergo/keyboards/mechanical_vs_membrane_keyswitches.html

[JBert]

The less likely you are at bottoming out, the better. Mashing down is generally regarded as bad, so rubber dome keyboards are mostly the worst if we leave the cushioning effect of the rubber out of this thought.

Then there are other factors. Stiffer mechanics are sometimes seen as worse because your fingers supposedly go weary in less time, yet we have some heavy typists here for whom it seems to be no problem.
The only time this matters is if you press too hard and do bottom out on a mechanical keyboard. In this case, you have a hard landing. More force would mean a higher shock and hence more damage.

A good designed switch will make a contact before bottoming to reduce this problem. Rubber domes don't do this, hence they're bad.

Anyway, much stuff out there but no true conclusion. My gut feeling is that Topre switches are the safest ones, yet the feeling and "smoothness" may not suit everyone who is used to most common mechanical keyboards (That, and they're slightly overpriced).

[JBert]

http://www.ergocanada.com/ergo/keyboards/mechanical_vs_membrane_keyswitches.html

This site got the terms in the headers mixed up. When they say "membrane keyboard", they actually mean "rubber dome".

Other than that it looks alright on first sight.

[urlwolf]

http://www.ergocanada.com/ergo/keyboards/mechanical_vs_membrane_keyswitches.html

Very good summary and useful to send around to people who you want to 'get into' keyboards...
But they mention no health benefits.

I'm sure there are lots of published experiments. Even if the results are not clear, I'd prefer to get some stats on why it's worth to switch. I found this forum because my fingertips were hurting, and that, for sure, has been fixed when moving to a mechanical keyboard. I just want to make sure I'm not swapping one problem with another...

[timw4mail]

Really, a mechanical switch does not guarantee a better typing experience, but a good mechanical switch really does help.

Not to seem rude, but personally I find black ALPS switches to be a bad mechanical switch, as they require a lot of force to actuate, have a very subtle tactile point, and they bottom out easily and painfully.

Buckling springs (in the Model M) are nice middle-of-the-road between good and bad mechanical switches, but they have a very quickly increasing resistance curve after the tactile point.

The Capacitive Buckling springs are the nicest high-force switches I know of... very precise action, and a very satisfying smooth mechanical action.

The Cherry blue switches are nice, but the amount of gap between the click and the actuation point is irritating.

The Cherry brown switches are really nice, with a low actuation force, and a distinct tactile point. Easy to bottom out, but they do bottom out a lot more gently than similar switches due to their low actuation force.

So, with a nicer mechanical switch, I think mechanical switches are almost guaranteed to feel better to type with.

[spremino]

The Cherry blue switches are nice, but the amount of gap between the click and the actuation point is irritating.

What do you mean? Doesn't the click happen at the same time as the actuation? Do you mean that hearing the click doesn't mean the keypress has been registered?

[timw4mail]

What do you mean? Doesn't the click happen at the same time as the actuation? Do you mean that hearing the click doesn't mean the keypress has been registered?

Yes and no. Since the switch actually pushes down a secondary plunger to make the click, the click is inherently separate from the actuation or the tactile point. It's pretty close, yes, but depending on how quickly you can register the sound, it make seem like it comes before or after the tactile point.

Basically, due to the way the click is made, you can't precisely line up the click with the tactile point. You can move it one way or another, but you can't make them coincide. In my mind, that makes it somewhat of a sloppy switch.

From a usability point of view, they really aren't a bad switch.

[InSanCen]

Buckling springs (in the Model M) are nice middle-of-the-road between good and bad mechanical switches, but they have a very quickly increasing resistance curve after the tactile point.

I would have thought that was a good thing, as it would make the key return faster, and make you less likely to bottom out (Increased speed, no nasty bump at the bottom).

Or have I got it ass-over-tit?

[ch_123]

Lots of force required to get the key down. Can be an issue for people with certain medical problems or disabilities. Although I think RSI is more to do with overall ergonomics. How you sit and where you put your keyboard and that kind of stuff can make an awful lot of difference.

[spremino]

Although I think RSI is more to do with overall ergonomics. How you sit and where you put your keyboard and that kind of stuff can make an awful lot of difference.

Indeed in most videos about typing I've seen, people employ unhealthy technique: wrists not straight, wrists resting, stretching fingers and wrists instead of moving hands, bottoming out...

Oh, and let's not forget the mouse... I've switched to a trackball and it has made a world of difference.

[Rajagra]

If somebody set out to create a keyboard to deliberately cause RSI it would have these features:

• Fixed layout;
• Forces forearms to be angled unnaturally;
• Forces wrists to be angled unnaturally;
• Forces wrists to be rotated unnaturally;
• Letters arranged so the row used most often is not the home row;
• Keys require increasing force to push down, before hitting a sudden hard stop;
• Keys don't actuate until you hit that hard stop;
• Even at the hard stop you might have to press even harder to ensure electrical contact;
• Keys give no feedback to let you know that hard stop is coming.

But nobody would be crazy enough to make a keyboard like that, let alone buy one. Would they?

[JBert]

I know your post was meant to be ironic, but do keep in mind that the whole unergonomic keyboards of today are a result from cost saving on top of more cost saving.

[quadibloc]

Even if the results are not clear, I'd prefer to get some stats on why it's worth to switch.

There's nothing wrong with wanting that information. But this is not the best place to find it. Keyboards with tactile feedback are of interest here because they're subjectively more pleasant to type on. Whether that means they're healthier, or a dangerous addiction like cigarette smoking that causes health problems... is almost beside the point. Most of the keyboards discussed here aren't designed as ergonomic, and just have the conventional keyboard layout with unbroken straight rows.

Most of us aren't experts in RSI health issues as well. From what little I know, since repetitive motion is the problem, it would seem the mouse is the bigger problem - and, as for typing, "two-finger" typing, as opposed to touch-typing, is what is dangerous. Yet keyboards, not mice, carry health warnings.

[lal]

Yes and no. Since the switch actually pushes down a secondary plunger to make the click, the click is inherently separate from the actuation or the tactile point.

That is not true.  When a blue MX clicks it has definitely closed the switch, since the white click bullet is what holds the contacts open.

[timw4mail]

That is not true.  When a blue MX clicks it has definitely closed the switch, since the white click bullet is what holds the contacts open.

Perhaps it holds the contacts open. But the "click" plunger does not move directly with the main plunger. It's not simultaneous.

[lal]

Perhaps it holds the contacts open. But the "click" plunger does not move directly with the main plunger. It's not simultaneous.

Nitpickingly correct.  But the click is not "inherently separate from the actuation".  If it clicks, it has definitely "switched"

[itlnstln]

That is not true. When a blue MX clicks it has definitely closed the switch, since the white click bullet is what holds the contacts open.

Perhaps it holds the contacts open. But the "click" plunger does not move directly with the main plunger. It's not simultaneous.

You are both correct.  The click bullet not being connected to the main plunger would impact repeated keypresses more (I would think, anyway) than just single keypresses.  You would have to almost completely release the key for the bullet to come back up.  Otherwise, the click bullet would stay depressed causing a repeat.

[microsoft windows]

I've heard that rubber domes are worst for your health. Just look at that guy eating one. He's turning green already!

[keyb_gr]

I'm in the "it depends" camp. There are good and bad mechanical switches, and the same is true for rubber domes.

The complex black Alps' in my AT102DW have too much friction to be that much fun (the Acer mechanics modules are even worse in terms of bottoming out), and to be honest a Cherry G81 is more usable. By contrast, a light rubber dome à la Fujitsu-Siemens actually is perfectly fine.

It has to be said that there are a couple of nice mechanical switches though. I love my "hybrid" G80-3000 with blues and well-worn two-shot keycaps - I still bottom out often, but not heavily, and typing feels almost effortless and quite rewarding. (This has quietly displaced the M.) In the "higher force and maybe not quite as ergonomic" camp, clears and buckling spring (M style) have served me well. Clears are my "bottom-out proof" switches.

I'd say blues and browns are good candidates for ergonomic mechanical switches.

[sggsix]

Show Image

I've heard that rubber domes are worst for your health. Just look at that guy eating one. He's turning green already!

Last guy I saw eat one survived 1 weeks.  But, I think it's impossible to live beyond that once you "consume (buy or eat)" an rubber dome!

))))