ABS M1 vs Filco vs SS 7G

[NOMiS]

I currently have an M1, and I'm looking for a new key board. The reason that I want a new one is pretty much because the M1 is blocking keys. So I have 2 options afaik.

The Filco boards, or the 7G.
I'm not sure about all the differences, other than the 7G used black cherry mx switches, has a wrist rest, and a USB hub. Filco seems to lack all that, but you can have the blue brown, or black switches.

I have no idea what switch I want, and I'm not sure if the 7G has NKRO. Also the 7G costs a lot more.

[NOMiS]

[cmr]

by "blocking keys" do you mean you're pressing more keys simultaneously than the board will register?


[size=-3]....is it for sale?[/size]

[ch_123]

Just don't get the Filco Zero, which appears to be as bad as the M1 for controller issues.

[NOMiS]

by "blocking keys" do you mean you're pressing more keys simultaneously than the board will register?


[size=-3]....is it for sale?[/size]

Yeah  pretty much, and I'll probably sell it once I get a replacement.

The 7G should be fine.  Would have been better if this poster reported the minimum keys registered but I'm sure it can handle at least 6 keys under USB.

The M1 is pretty sad when it comes to Nkey rollover.

I'd recommend a Filco personally and ditch the handrest and USB hub.

I'd like to know if the black cherry switches are any good? Apparently they are good for gaming but I don't see why. I'm really not sure which switch to pick if I get the Filco, I like the idea of clicking, but I'm afraid I wont like it. i also can't touch type yet, but I want to learn. Right now I basically type with two fingers, but I have to look at the board to type, even though I'm pretty fast, its annoying. I'm hesitant to buy the 7G cause I don't want it to be like the M1. (((

Ends up being a $200 CAD keyboard, so I just want to get some info before I buy anything.

Also another question, is there any cool keycaps for these keyboards? You guys have some awesome mods on this site that make me want to mod my stuff too.

[ch_123]

Cherry Blacks (Sold on EliteKeyboards as 'Linear Force')are considered to be good gaming because -

a) No 'bump' (i.e. tactility) on the way down, it's a smooth linear switch.
b) They're quite stiff, so that prevents accidental keypresses.

Of course, the above two reasons also make them unpleasant for touch typing - the high force can make it tiring and slow for touch typing, and the lack of a clearly defined tactile point makes it hard to know when the key has been registered.

A better compromise may be the Cherry Browns ('Tactile Force') these are low-force switches with a subtle tactile point. They're good for doing alot of fast typing, and because they don't offer a lot of resistance, they'd be good for gaming as well. Only problem is that a lot of people find them almost too light, they can take a while to get used to.

As for the Cherry Blues, they're a nice switch for typing on, but as much for gaming on. They have a noticeable tactile bump, and this interferes with repeated keypressing in games. It's hard to describe, but you'd notice it quite quickly if you were doing something that required you tap a button repeatedly. Basically, if you want to a press a button more than once, you have to let the key come all the way back up before pressing it again. Theyre not completely unusable, but if the main purpose of the board is for gaming, you'd be better off with one of the other two.

[JBert]

It's hard to describe, but you'd notice it quite quickly if you were doing something that required you tap a button repeatedly. Basically, if you want to a press a button more than once, you have to let the key come all the way back up before pressing it again. Theyre not completely unusable, but if the main purpose of the board is for gaming, you'd be better off with one of the other two.

As I said before, I don't think this is true.
Sure, you think the button is not released as the tactility is a little of, yet you should be able to retrigger before that point. It just feels weird not to do so.

[ch_123]

That's probably true, it just feels odd and counter-intuitive.

[NOMiS]

Well, I like the feel of the M1, if I modded the stem on one of the keys, you think I could get it to feel like a black cherry key?

[ch_123]

If you like the Alps switches on the ABS M1, you might be better off getting one of these - AT101Ws. (You should be able to get one with an offer of $10)

Although they arent specifically NKRO, they don't have any dodgy controller issues and should serve you fine.

[kyamei]

Well, I like the feel of the M1, if I modded the stem on one of the keys, you think I could get it to feel like a black cherry key?

I've tried removing the tactile leaf from the switches in the M1 to make it linear and boy was it hard to use.  The actuation point is relatively high on the stroke and the springs are quite light at the top of the stroke so just lightly resting your fingers on the keys can activate them.

[NOMiS]

If you like the Alps switches on the ABS M1, you might be better off getting one of these - AT101Ws. (You should be able to get one with an offer of $10)

Although they arent specifically NKRO, they don't have any dodgy controller issues and should serve you fine.

Damn, $10 eh, might just get it cause its so cheap. I don't like the size though.

EDIT: $25 to ship to Canada with my $10 offer.

I've tried removing the tactile leaf from the switches in the M1 to make it linear and boy was it hard to use.  The actuation point is relatively high on the stroke and the springs are quite light at the top of the stroke so just lightly resting your fingers on the keys can activate them.

Guess I wont try that then lol. Thanks for the info.

[cmr]

my at-101w is my favorite gaming keyboard of the moment, but if you have an M1 that is rolling over properly with respect to its matrix, you're probably going to have the same problem with the dell... its matrix is pretty standard.

[talis]

Damn, $10 eh, might just get it cause its so cheap. I don't like the size though.

EDIT: $25 to ship to Canada with my $10 offer.

Guess I wont try that then lol. Thanks for the info.

$25 shipping is quite reasonable.  You will be hard pressed to find -any- keyboard that ships out of the US that will cost less then that in shipping (and expect to pay $40-50 on delivery in brokerage if it comes UPS or FedEx).

[patrickgeekhack]

$25 shipping is quite reasonable.  You will be hard pressed to find -any- keyboard that ships out of the US that will cost less then that in shipping (and expect to pay $40-50 on delivery in brokerage if it comes UPS or FedEx).

Very true. I try to use USPS as much as possible. I did not pay custom broker nor duty on my Dell AT101W. I bought from this guy.  He used to have a USD $10 buy it now, but now I see that he requires bidding on his eBay store. Better to buy directly from his store ($10).

FYI: I just paid $19.58 (taxes) on my Filco when it was delivered.

[watduzhkstand4]

I would be brand loyal here and go with Filco. Their keyboards are of very good quality. Although the ABS M1 looks exactly like a Filco, I will still go with the Filco

[itlnstln]

Filco with some sort of Cherry switch (stay away from the Zero right now).  You can't go wrong.

[talis]

Another option is the I-Rocks KR-6230, NCIX.com carries them so no cross border shipping.  I haven't used one myself, but there's a few reviews here of the board.

[itlnstln]

Another option is the I-Rocks KR-6230, NCIX.com carries them so no cross border shipping. I haven't used one myself, but there's a few reviews here of the board.

Good call. I think several other retailers carry them, too.  They are cheaper than the Filcos, and they don't seem to have any rollover issues.

[ch_123]

I would be brand loyal here and go with Filco. Their keyboards are of very good quality. Although the ABS M1 looks exactly like a Filco, I will still go with the Filco

Well, if the OP likes Alps, he can't go wrong with at a $10 AT101W. Cherrys are quite different.

[patrickgeekhack]

Another option is the I-Rocks KR-6230, NCIX.com carries them so no cross border shipping.  I haven't used one myself, but there's a few reviews here of the board.

It's even cheaper from directcanada.com. Brown Cherries could be a good compromise between a gaming keyboard and typing keyboard. Chances are you won't feel the tactile point when gaming, but will (with some training) feel it when typing.

One thing worth mentioning although I don't want to mess up your decision. Just weigh the benefits vs cost between the I-Rocks and the Filco and get the one you are more likely to be happy with. The layout of the I-Rocks is different. Some people are fine with this, but I would hate to buy an I-Rocks and then realise it was the Filco that I wanted. Just my thought.

[cmr]

Well, if the OP likes Alps, he can't go wrong with at a $10 AT101W. Cherrys are quite different.

well, he says he is having rollover problems with the M1, so i'm not sure an AT101W matrix is going to be much better. the dell does not implement n-key rollover.

[ch_123]

I think NKRO is overhyped. I've played plenty of games on non-NKRO boards without any issues. The thing with the ABS M1 is that it has a terrible controller, and that maybe what's to blame. Ive played a few games on an AT before, and had no such problems. At the end of the day, it's how intelligently the controller is designed as opposed to advertised NKRO support.

[wellington1869]

I think NKRO is overhyped. I've played plenty of games on non-NKRO boards without any issues. The thing with the ABS M1 is that it has a terrible controller, and that maybe what's to blame. Ive played a few games on an AT before, and had no such problems. At the end of the day, it's how intelligently the controller is designed as opposed to advertised NKRO support.

I think this is true atleast for typists (as opposed to gamers); the example that comes to mind is the endurapro/1401's, where they're not nkro but they are able to keep up with typists much better than some of these costar boards obviously. I've never had a typing problem with my endurapro even tho its not nkro.

If i were a serious gamer tho, I wouldnt settle for anything less than nkro, just from my experience playing battlefield intensely for a year or so. Those keystrokes for the macros need to be really precise and quick and usually you have 8 fingers going at once.

[wellington1869]

Too bad it uses ALPS though - yuck - I'm putting this back in the box.  I don't know how you guys stand these friction laden, scratchy, keys - ORIGINAL or FAKE.

captain of the anti-alps league  :-D

[NOMiS]

$25 shipping is quite reasonable.  You will be hard pressed to find -any- keyboard that ships out of the US that will cost less then that in shipping (and expect to pay $40-50 on delivery in brokerage if it comes UPS or FedEx).

Yeah I'm used to those fees. :/

You guys really don't make me want to get that Dell.

I think I'm gonna go with the filco, probably brown tenkeyless one and the das keycap set.

[ch_123]

captain of the anti-alps league  :-D

Tsk, I was hatin' Alps and pimpin' Model Fs long before either activity became fashionable...

[itlnstln]

Yeah I'm used to those fees. :/
 
You guys really don't make me want to get that Dell.
 
I think I'm gonna go with the filco, probably brown tenkeyless one and the das keycap set.

Now you're talking.  You won't be disappointed, but be sure to give those Cherry browns about a week, or so.  They are much lighter than you are probably used to.

[cmr]

Too bad it uses ALPS though - yuck - I'm putting this back in the box.  I don't know how you guys stand these friction laden, scratchy, keys - REAL or FAKE.

hoppe's #9 gun oil.

the fukkas (maybe?) in my TP2 are a completely different story though.

[ch_123]

Yeah I'm used to those fees. :/

You guys really don't make me want to get that Dell.

I think I'm gonna go with the filco, probably brown tenkeyless one and the das keycap set.

Alot of people don't like Alps switches, myself included. If you like the ones in your ABS then it would be worth the relatively small amount of money getting the Dell. That said, the Filco won't disappoint.

[NOMiS]

Alot of people don't like Alps switches, myself included. If you like the ones in your ABS then it would be worth the relatively small amount of money getting the Dell. That said, the Filco won't disappoint.

Well, I like them considerably more than dome switch keyboards, like the G15, or Razer Lycosa. However, I've never experienced any other mechanical keyboard before, this is the best I've used yet.


You guys make alps keys seem worst than dome switch lol.

[AndrewZorn]

so i keep changing my mind on the $15 AT101W

buyers remorse
best gaming keyboard ever
buyers remorse
best gaming keyboard ever
buyers remorse
best gaming keyboard ever
buyers remorse
best gaming keyboard ever

$15.

EDIT forgot to mention that i havent actually used it yet, nor will i even see it for months.

[wellington1869]

You guys make alps keys seem worst than dome switch lol.

"you guys" = ripster and the league staff

dont let them throw you, there's plenty of people around who like alps just fine.

And -- you're going from alps to cherry browns on their recommendation? Dude, if experience on this forum has taught me anything, its that people rarely successfully jump from heavy switches to light (or vice versa). Will be interesting what you think of them - and what you think of them a month down the line.

[talis]

Really, when it comes to choosing a keyboard a lot comes down to personal preference.  If you've never really used a mechanical keyboard before its hard to reference what you like/don't like.  If you're not immediately sure what you want, it may be worth dropping $35 on an e-bay dell, just so you have a (cheap) place to start from.  You can always re-sell it if you don't like it.  If you've only used one mechanical board before, it gives you another point of reference to work from.

Once you get it, its much easier to ask the big questions that will make your next choice (if it turns out you don't like the Dell) much easier:

- Is it too heavy/light.
- Is it too loud/quiet.
- Do you like the tactile bump (and the hysteresis that tends to come with it) or not.

IMO its worth the $35 just for the frame of reference, or at least a chance to make a call in person on it.  And again, you can likely re-sell it for most of what you paid for it.

[rdjack21]

"you guys" = ripster and the league staff

dont let them throw you, there's plenty of people around who like alps just fine.

And -- you're going from alps to cherry browns on their recommendation? Dude, if experience on this forum has taught me anything, its that people rarely successfully jump from heavy switches to light (or vice versa). Will be interesting what you think of them - and what you think of them a month down the line.

I got my ABS M1 before my Compaq MX11800 and I have to say that the M1 and the MX11800 felt pretty close force wise to each other. Now that White Alps SIIG was defiantly a heaver switch.

But then again when I was trying all these boards I was coming off a BS board and looking for something lighter. And at the time my fingers had not adjusted. I may have to pull those two boards out and give them ago again seeing that I'm now adjusted to lighter switches and see how much difference I feel today.

[patrickgeekhack]

IMO its worth the $35 just for the frame of reference, or at least a chance to make a call in person on it.  And again, you can likely re-sell it for most of what you paid for it.

True. For the price, it's a very good keyboard. I'm saying this even though I'm more of a Cherry person.

To OP: ultimately, you'll need to make your own decision. This forum is nice for reviews and opinions, but you need to keep in mind that we are all different from each other. The only way to know for sure if a particular keyboard fits your needs is to get one...unfortunately. I'm in Canada too, and can understand you situation as far as shipping cost goes. One thing you'll also notice here  is that people's taste  can sometimes change over time. A lot of us rotate our keyboards. This is what a lot of people don't understand :-)

[NOMiS]

I went ahead and bought the Filco Majestouch Tenkeyless Tactile Touch (aka FMTTT), and the blank keycap set. Set me back $200 CAD. I don't think I'll have problems with the switches, I've only been using this board for about three months, and before that a Razer Lycosa, and G15. G15 is the only one that I never noticed this problem.

I ruled out the 7G when I noticed it had the giant enter key, and small backspace. No way I'm using that. And since the M1's been giving me trouble with the blocking, I decided to go with it since it was the only option, and a nice one at that. I only wish these keyboards had media keys for volume, play/pause, prev/next, mute.

Thanks for the responses. Glad I found this site lots of great info.

[patrickgeekhack]

I went ahead and bought the Filco Majestouch Tenkeyless Tactile Touch (aka FMTTT), and the blank keycap set. Set me back $200 CAD. I don't think I'll have problems with the switches, I've only been using this board for about three months, and before that a Razer Lycosa, and G15. G15 is the only one that I never noticed this problem.

I ruled out the 7G when I noticed it had the giant enter key, and small backspace. No way I'm using that. And since the M1's been giving me trouble with the blocking, I decided to go with it since it was the only option, and a nice one at that. I only wish these keyboards had media keys for volume, play/pause, prev/next, mute.

Thanks for the responses. Glad I found this site lots of great info.

Just a heads up, you may have to pay taxes on the keyboard. I got the 104 version without the blank keycaps. The whole thing cost about CDN $150, but when it was delivered, the Canada Post employee collected CDN $19.58.

[talis]

Just a heads up, you may have to pay taxes on the keyboard. I got the 104 version without the blank keycaps. The whole thing cost about CDN $150, but when it was delivered, the Canada Post employee collected CDN $19.58.

That's pretty reasonable.  I don't mind paying duty on things when applicable, its getting charged $30 in "Brokerage fees" on top of the duty for an item regardless of its value.  I think I've mentioned this before, but I remember UPS trying to collect $30 in brokerage for free samples I was trying to receive (actual value $0).

[patrickgeekhack]

That's pretty reasonable.  I don't mind paying duty on things when applicable, its getting charged $30 in "Brokerage fees" on top of the duty for an item regardless of its value.  I think I've mentioned this before, but I remember UPS trying to collect $30 in brokerage for free samples I was trying to receive (actual value $0).

Yes, UPS is the worst among the various courier companies when it comes to brokerage fee. USPS is the best for that.

[cmr]

I ruled out the 7G when I noticed it had the giant enter key, and small backspace. No way I'm using that.

quoted for indisputability

[NOMiS]

Finally got it. Cost me $13 at the post office.

Feels sooooo much better. The red esc key doesn't say Filco on it either which I'm glad.

[patrickgeekhack]

Finally got it. Cost me $13 at the post office.

Feels sooooo much better. The red esc key doesn't say Filco on it either which I'm glad.

$13??? I need to make a formal discrimination complaint to Canada Custom and Revenue Agency. I paid $19.58 when it was delivered to my door.

Seriously, you got the more expensive version of the keyboard (I got the regular one with Brown Cherries), yet I paid more for Custom fee? Doesn't make sense to me. When are the elections coming again? :mmph:

[NOMiS]

I picked mine up at the post office. The order cost $200 CAD all together.

[patrickgeekhack]

I picked mine up at the post office. The order cost $200 CAD all together.

It should not make a difference whether it is picked at the post office or delivered to one's door. The custom fee  should be the same. The only difference I can see if a change in exchange rate.

[quadibloc]

I ruled out the 7G when I noticed it had the giant enter key, and small backspace. No way I'm using that.

I feel the same way about the keyboards, like the TVS Gold, that retain the AT arrangement.

I'd be happy to have a giant Enter key and a smaller backspace, provided the backspace were in the right position:



but that's a different matter entirely.

[patrickgeekhack]

I feel the same way about the keyboards, like the TVS Gold, that retain the AT arrangement.

I'd be happy to have a giant Enter key and a smaller backspace, provided the backspace were in the right position:

Show Image

but that's a different matter entirely.

I can get used to a big enter key and a small backspace, but it's harder for me to get use to an inverted L enter key like on the British layout or the Canadian bilingual keyboard.

[quadibloc]

I can get used to a big enter key and a small backspace, but it's harder for me to get use to an inverted L enter key like on the British layout or the Canadian bilingual keyboard.

Of course, on that layout, the enter key is separated from "' by an extra key - and that is the layout with the left-hand shift key moved also.

An inverted L is all right in the right place, like on a Selectric typewriter.

[jkkhop]

Loving my cherry mx black filco. Better than the cherry browns for gaming and typing due to higher resistance. Glad I didn't get the 7G because the numpad would just be on the way.

[itlnstln]

I am staring a this $15 Black Cherry numpad though and am trying to figure out if I can somehow jam it into a Nostromo N52 as a killer mod.

Ooh, I might want to even try that one.  I don't know why, but I have always thought that the Nostromo n52 was one of the greatest ideas for a gaming controller ever.  I'm suprised it's not more popular.