Idea to prevent bottoming out: build a switch that registers it

[urlwolf]

This could be already done, but...
If bottoming is as bad as it sounds, then we (or software, or hardware) should work towars preventing bottoming out.

The idea is that if you had auditory feedback every time you bottom out, your body will learn to avoid it.

For this, we'd need to build a switch that register not only the keypress half-way, but also the bottoming out.

if it made a sound for each bottoming out, I bet most people would not do it. Imagine: clack-clack, clack-clack, CLONK clack-clack. Or it could be done by software, with a nasty buzz, as many touchtyping programs do when you misspell a word.

What do you think? Hardware hackers may want to actually try to implement it....

[JBert]

It takes quite some redesign on part of the switch.
The best way to reduce it is to make keys with a well thought out force curve, enough key travel (say 4mm) and actuation at about 1/3 of the way.

I would add some rubber padding to the bottom of the switch though, as to reduce the impact when you do bottom out. Lighter key switches may take more time to master "unbottoming".

[Rajagra]

Interesting idea.
The ideal solution though, would be to give the keys more travel. If they had 1cm of travel and activated in the first 1 or 2 mm it would be very easy to avoid bottoming out. It fact you'd have to work hard to make it do so.

[urlwolf]

it could also be a sheet of contacts in the shape of the key bottoms that activates on pressure.
Having a huge travel distance will prevent bottomming out, yes, but it is also associated with problems. The idea here is to have something like immediate feedback that tells you 'you've gone too far'. In the 1cm-travel switch, it'd be a second click way before you made the entire travel distance.

[itlnstln]

I say don't worry about trying to not bottom out, it'll just happen.  That, and trying to not bottom out tires my hands more than just typing.  As you get better at lightening your touch, not bottomng out just happens.  It also depends on the switch you use, too.  Cherry switches, IMO, the easiest to not bottom out on.  BS are good, too.  Alps switches are almost designed to force you to bottom out, and I have never been able to constantly be able to not bottom out.  Real, complicated Alps are a lot easier to not bottom out with (but still damn-near impossible).  The simplified varieties I would give up on.

[JBert]

[snip]  It also depends on the switch you use, too.  Cherry switches, IMO, the easiest to not bottom out on.  BS are good, too.

Just to elaborate: all Cherries except the browns are harder to bottom out on. And most buckling springs are pretty stiff, but the model F bottoms out rather easy.

[Shawn Stanford]

What's all this fuss about bottoming out? I'm pretty sure I bottom out my keypresses every single time. A legacy of learning to touch-type on a manual typewriter, no doubt. But, there it is. What's the harm?

[ernestrome]

How about metal keys and electroshock feedback?

[itlnstln]

What's all this fuss about bottoming out? I'm pretty sure I bottom out my keypresses every single time. A legacy of learning to touch-type on a manual typewriter, no doubt. But, there it is. What's the harm?

Some people, after using rubber domes for many years, have had hand pain from "slamming" their fingers into the keyboard.  I have never experienced this, but others here have.

[Shawn Stanford]

How about keycaps with small spikes? As long as you don't bottom out, the pressure is never enought to cause pain or pierce the skin. Press too hard...

[cmr]

How about metal keys and electroshock feedback?

you beat me

[itlnstln]

How about metal keys and electroshock feedback?

Other than getting the metal keys, that shouldn't be too hard to do.

[msiegel]

Just to elaborate: all Cherries except the browns are harder to bottom out on. And most buckling springs are pretty stiff, but the model F bottoms out rather easy.

It's as if the Model F was designed to bottom out -- the amount of force needed to buckle the springs is enough to bottom out the keys (at least on the board I have).

[itlnstln]

It's as if the Model F was designed to bottom out -- the amount of force needed to buckle the springs is enough to bottom out the keys (at least on the board I have).

This is my feeling on the Alps switched (particularly simplified).  It takes so much force to push the switch past the tactile point, that when it finally passes that point, you are travelling so fast that you can't stop.
 
 
Damn, I am getting killed by these blank keys.  The funny thing is, though, that I can still help myself by looking at the keys.

[Rajagra]

How about metal keys and electroshock feedback?

Trouble is, some people might enjoy that...

[quadibloc]

The ideal solution though, would be to give the keys more travel.

Quite true. One thing, though: there was quite an impact on keyboard design when Europe adopted ergonomic standards for keyboards which required them to be very thin. This meant, for example, that reed switch keys could no longer be used - and is perhaps one reason IBM scrambled to develop buckling spring technology well before it needed it to cut costs for the IBM PC.

[clickclack]

This could be already done, but...
If bottoming is as bad as it sounds, then we (or software, or hardware) should work towars preventing bottoming out.
...

What's bad about this again? It sounds bad? :S I suppose if you are constantly jamming your little fingers into the keys to where they become sore (or your hands) you might care. Other than that... am i missing something? I guess it sounds different. I can't imagine it causing damage to the board, that is what they are designed to do. Or is this just for the cool factor thing? I like it sometimes, but I can't say I go out of my way to avoid it.
I must be missing something...right?

[DreymaR]

It's the jamming your fingers into the boards bit, for sure. When you're running on asphalt or concrete you make sure your shoes absorb as much as possible of the jolts before your spine gets them. Ergonomists believe that the jolts to the fingers is part of the cause of RSI.

On the topic of cool factor: Chartreuse text color looks horrible on the light theme. I suppose it's nice enough on the dark theme, but then that looks unreadable on my monitor in general. (I suppose that your posts might be the only readable ones there, ironically.) Yes, it's an old monitor... but still.

[clickclack]

It's the jamming your fingers into the boards bit, for sure. When you're running on asphalt or concrete you make sure your shoes absorb as much as possible of the jolts before your spine gets them. Ergonomists believe that the jolts to the fingers is part of the cause of RSI.

On the topic of cool factor: Chartreuse text color looks horrible on the light theme. I suppose it's nice enough on the dark theme, but then that looks unreadable on my monitor in general. (I suppose that your posts might be the only readable ones there, ironically.) Yes, it's an old monitor... but still.

Gee and here I just thought one would, um... idunno type lighter. I had no idea typing lighter was hard. Learn something every day...

on the topic of learning something new...
It took me forever to figure out what the heck you meant by "light theme/dark theme". Themes??? I assume this means I can change the dark background to a light one?
I chose it for it's visibility btw, things are more obvious (especially with responses to quotes). I also thought it would be more obvious at a quick glance who it was. I guess that is not the case for you and perhaps others. What a shame, and here I thought it was interesting and useful.
Bummer.
I do hope someone would be so kind enough as to point this feature out to me, so I can find out what color(s) would be less offensive (if any).
another boring day at the rainbow factory haahaa =)

[JBert]

Check the drop-down box at the bottom left on each page - you can select "geekhack - light" there.

I don't like it that much though as a lot of images and backgrounds are still dark.

[clickclack]

Check the drop-down box at the bottom left on each page - you can select "geekhack - light" there.
I don't like it that much though as a lot of images and backgrounds are still dark.

Thanks so much I can still read it pretty good, but I understand how it could be an issue. I am still pouting about it though, haahaa =(

It looks more clinical (the forum) with the light background. Its way, way too bright for me. The odd thing is that the regular type color is harder for me to read in the lighter mode (the normal type is not contrasting enough). I guess I will stick to the darker version. It's nice to have a choice though.
but the black background is really neato =P

Thanks for the info guys,
although I must admit I am a bit embarrassed.

[urlwolf]

FYI, just found that the kinesis contour does a software click (brown switches have no click otherwise). This is close to what I was talking about). It can deactivate it for stealth mode