question about original complicated alps

[wellington1869]

does anyone know if the aekII has original complicated bigfoots? (as opposed to simplified bigfoots).  Does the at101w have original complicated bigfoots? (as opposed to simplified bigfoots)?

thanks


(Damn, I shouldnt have driven sandy away..

[msiegel]

does anyone know if the aekII has original complicated bigfoots? (as opposed to simplified bigfoots).  Does the at101w have original complicated bigfoots? (as opposed to simplified bigfoots)?

thanks

(Damn, I shouldnt have driven sandy away..

AEK II ALPS are complicated all right

[wellington1869]

AEK II ALPS are complicated all right

cool, i also remember reading somewhere that at101w was complicated too. If thats the case then I've definitely used one, maybe two, real-original-complicated-alps boards.  

And I still do like the fukkas better

[msiegel]

cool, i also remember reading somewhere that at101w was complicated too. If thats the case then I've definitely used one, maybe two, real-original-complicated-alps boards.  
in fact i have the aekii sitting right next to me at the moment

And I still do like the fukkas better

i think sandy was right, the complicated and simplified really are two different animals.

the complicated are more classy, the simplified are more fun

[wellington1869]

i think sandy was right, the complicated and simplified really are two different animals.

the complicated are more classy, the simplified are more fun

lol, and you know how loose i like my keyboards

[lal]

Does the at101w have original complicated bigfoots? (as opposed to simplified bigfoots)?

Yep, it does, too.

[timw4mail]

What does "Bigfoot" mean in terms of ALPS?

[itlnstln]

What does "Bigfoot" mean in terms of ALPS?

It's just a general term for the style of Alps (and clone) switches we see in keyboards today.  They can be complicated or simplified, but occasionally, folks will only refer to complicated switches as "Bigfoot."
 
http://park16.wakwak.com/~ex4/kb/tech_alps_bigfoot.htm

[alpslover]

cool, i also remember reading somewhere that at101w was complicated too. If thats the case then I've definitely used one, maybe two, real-original-complicated-alps boards.  

And I still do like the fukkas better

i dislike the complicated black alps switches in at101w's, i think they're junk.  i much prefer the type 1 simplifieds over them.

you need to try the cream of the crop alps complicated switches, as found in northgates and some focus's.

[wellington1869]

i dislike the complicated black alps switches in at101w's, i think they're junk.  i much prefer the type 1 simplifieds over them.

you need to try the cream of the crop alps complicated switches, as found in northgates and some focus's.

alpslover, how is northgate complicated alps different from at101w complicated alps? Are they different in structure? Or is the main difference a click leaf vs tactile leaf?

[itlnstln]

alpslover, how is northgate complicated alps different from at101w complicated alps? Are they different in structure? Or is the main difference a click leaf vs tactile leaf?

About the only difference I can feel between the two is a little more of a "snap" than a tactile "bump" on the Northgate. Otherwise the two are pretty much identical. The only other obvious difference would be the click, of course.
 
EDIT: The structure is exactly the same, the click leaf is not attached at the top to the housing on the whites, though. See here: http://park16.wakwak.com/~ex4/kb/tech_alps_bigfoot3.htm

[itlnstln]

Whatever friction they have is consistent between the two.  I used to not really notice the friction in Alps, but since I have been on Cherry browns exclusively for awhile, I can feel that there is more friction in Alps than other designs.  BS and Cherrys are much smoother, IMO.
 
Oh, to answer your question, no, I don't oil my Alps.

[wellington1869]

About the only difference I can feel between the two is a little more of a "snap" than a tactile "bump" on the Northgate. Otherwise the two are pretty much identical. The only other obvious difference would be the click, of course.
 
EDIT: The structure is exactly the same, the click leaf is not attached at the top to the housing on the whites, though. See here: http://park16.wakwak.com/~ex4/kb/tech_alps_bigfoot3.htm

thanks itln, love the graphics on that page. someone put a lot of loving hours into it.

[itlnstln]

thanks itln, love the graphics on that page. someone put a lot of loving hours into it.

No kidding.  The CG stuff on there is pretty nice.  He has some great illustrations on how the different switches work.

[wellington1869]

What about the friction part.  Do you use oil or just use as is?

the funny thing is i'd argue on the fukkas what cherry users probably refer to as 'friction' is actually what makes the switch neat and special.

There's friction and then there's friction.

About a year ago when a bunch of folks on this forum ran out and bought cheap at101w's on ebay, it turned out to be a bad batch. Those really had friction (from being terribly abused in some way).

Then that batch of NIB at101w's showed up on ebay, and everyone ran out and bought one again (I mean, honestly, at $7 or so shipped for a NIB, it was kind of a no brainer to do it and try again). And that time we realized the former batch had just been abused. The NIB ones didnt have 'friction' in the way the abused batch did.

But they did have friction in the sense that some of the mechanical-ness inherent to the alps switch IS transmitted to the fingertips, tho in a very subtle way.  This is what cherry and topre users (who arent even used to that much) refer to as alps 'friction'.  But its part of the character/personality of the switch really. Sure you can reduce it a bit with silicon grease, but you wont get rid of all of it. On the other hand, I'd argue, people who truly like alps, probably like (or dont care about) that aspect of the alps personality.

And when it comes to fukkas, i'd argue, for me anyway, that 'friction' plays a crucial role in what gives the switch its unique character.  Its what is at the core of the 'meatiness' or "juiciness" of the switch on the downstroke.  Because unlike a lot of contemporary switches, the fukka doesnt have all its resistance up front, giving way to a glassy glide after that. Nosirree. The fukka (like all alps) lets you know all the way down the downstroke that its working hard and is with you. (Its really hard to keep this from sounding sexual, dammit!).

Long story short: on the downstroke, you therefore feel some resistance or feedback all the way down, not just at the top of the stroke. And that makes for a uniquely 'juicy' or 'meaty' downstroke. I like it a *lot*; i think most medium to heavy switch users probably like that aspect of the resistance feedback.

The fukkas unlike other alps, I feel, evens out that resistance tho, "meters it out" along the downstroke more so than other alps switches, too.

mmmm, meaty.

[itlnstln]

Clean (or NIB) Alps certainly don't have the friction we felt in those improperly stored Dells.  I think that Alps have do have more friction than, say, Cherrys in that the Alps' slider rubs the case all the way through the keystroke where Cherrys don't.  That sliding causes the slight friction feel that people get, especially, when they are used to Cherrys or BS.  Feel will always be subjective, so to each their own.  I always think that Alps are more "industrial" feeling than other switches (maybe not BS, but Cherry, for sure).

[wellington1869]

I'm still a bit confused about whats in the aekII and at101w. So basically they have a kind of "mark II" of the original real complicated alps? (with tactile leaf instead of clicky leaf, but basically that switch).

[timw4mail]

I'm still a bit confused about whats in the aekII and at101w. So basically they have a kind of "mark II" of the original real complicated alps? (with tactile leaf instead of clicky leaf, but basically that switch).

Huh? They're original ALPS, aren't they?

[zwmalone]

So if I got this right if I want to try complicated clicky ALPS you have the choices of:

Northgate Omnikey 101
Some Northgate Omnikey Ultra and 102 (blue color stem)
Focus FK-2001 without Windows keys
Toshiba J-3100 Keyboard (Japanese keyboard)

Am I missing one??  Doesn't give a lot of choices.

The Omnikey Evolution also has complicated switches *shameless plug*

[itlnstln]

The Omnikey Evolution also has complicated switches *shameless plug*

An excellent keyboard, too, I might add.  I would grab zwmalone's if you are interested (I'm looking at you, ripster).

[wellington1869]

Huh? They're original ALPS, aren't they?

see posts #10,11,12. There seems to be a minor difference, even tho both are considered original, real, complicated.


ZM, you should cross list your board on ebay, eh? Its a very good board, just needs someone who's in the right stage in life who wants it.

[itlnstln]

They're just varieties of the same switch.  It's just like Cherry black, brown, blue, etc.  They all share the exact same switching technology, they just vary in slider (tactility/click) and spring (resistance).  Alps was the same way.  Same switching technology, but they used different sliders for different feels.

[timw4mail]

They're just varieties of the same switch.  It's just like Cherry black, brown, blue, etc.  They all share the exact same switching technology, they just vary in slider (tactility/click) and spring (resistance).  Alps was the same way.  Same switching technology, but they used different sliders for different feels.

I thought the slider was the plunger...

From what I understood:

Plunger : Damped/Undamped/Color
Leaf Spring : Tactility/ Click
Coils Spring : Resistance

[itlnstln]

I thought the slider was the plunger...
 
From what I understood:
 
Plunger : Damped/Undamped/Color
Leaf Spring : Tactility/ Click
Coils Spring : Resistance

Plunger = Slider. Alps' sliders would affect feel as far as dampening goes, but, yes, the leaf controlled the tactility. The bottom line is that, like Cherry, Alps had different varieties of, essentially, the same switch.

[wellington1869]

That reminds me.  It seems if you want a clicky complicated ALPS the most practical way is Welly's trick of swapping leaves .  Now I just have to wait for him to sell me ClickClack's batch.

apparently clickclack has like 300 boards I'm sure he could be talked into grinding another forty switches out of one