Blue Cherry switch won't click

[xfocus]

I did something stupid yesterday and dropped a bit of coke on my arrow keys.  I disassembled the keys and cleaned them thoroughly.  The keys worked properly and I thought I had averted a disaster.

Today I noticed that my up and left keys don't click.  They have a uniform feel all the way through. I removed the keys and the switch itself feels different from the surrounding ones.  I believe that some syrup may have gotten inside the switch and dried up since yesterday.

My question is, how do I remove the switch to clean it?  I've tried looking online and in the forum but can't find any howtos.

Any help is appreciated!

[timw4mail]

The only way I can think of is to unsolder the switch, but that could be a lot more difficult it the switches are plate-mounted, rather than PCB mounted.

If the switch isn't clicking, most like the click-plunger is stuck with the main plunger, so it's functioning more like a tactile-only switch. It's a definite possibility that the spilled drink could have stuck these two plungers together.

[xfocus]

I was afraid of that.  I do have some good news though.  I unplugged the keyboard and took a compressed air can and shot it upside down into the switch then turned it right side up and shot regular air into it.  This seems to have cleaned the switch enough that it's now unstuck.

Happy days!

[Rajagra]

What keyboard is it? It the switches are mounted on the PCB without a mounting plate it is possible to open the switches.

[xfocus]

It's a Filco Tenkeyless "Otaku"

[Rajagra]

It's a Filco Tenkeyless "Otaku"

I suspect that has a mounting plate, making it impossible to open the switch.

[xfocus]

I suspect that has a mounting plate, making it impossible to open the switch.

That's all right.  Like I said, I used a can of compressed air and was able to unstick the switch.  I just need to be more careful next time. :-D

[shortround]

Ants could maybe remove the sticky sugar for any future spills.

[xfocus]

That's genius! I'll consider that next time.

BTW, I spoke too soon on the fix.  The keys started sticking within a few hours and soon were registering 2-3 hits per stroke.  I had to box it up and send it in to get fixed.  After the round trip I'll be out $50 :-(

[timw4mail]

That's genius! I'll consider that next time.

BTW, I spoke too soon on the fix.  The keys started sticking within a few hours and soon were registering 2-3 hits per stroke.  I had to box it up and send it in to get fixed.  After the round trip I'll be out $50 :-(

That's one of the disadvantages about those Cherry blue switches, the clicking mechanism is a bit more prone to failure than the click mechanism in ALPS switches, or buckling spring mechanisms.

What's scary is that I payed about $10 more for my Scorpius than you're paying in shipping...

[xfocus]

What's scary is that I payed about $10 more for my Scorpius than you're paying in shipping...

Shipping was $10 to send so I'm assuming I'll get charged about that for return shipping and Brian at elitekeyboards quoted me about $25 to fix the two keys.  That'll teach me to have drinks on my desk.  I usually have heavy mugs that I drink coffee out of.  I never drink coke and the first time I bring a coke bottle near my keyboard I spill it.  /sigh

[xfocus]

Not that it matters anymore, but would that require me to know how to solder properly?  :-)

[xfocus]

That looks painful.  I dropped a cup of coffee on my work laptop a few years ago.  Best 5 second light show I've ever seen.

Hey Ripster,  I think you're the best person to ask on here seeing as how you own the filco blue AND the realforce 87u.  I'm 10 seconds away from ordering the realforce.  Figured I could use the filco while at work and the realforce at home.  In any case, I just wanted to see what your take was on both of them.  I previously used a logitech G13 which I'm currently using and only now after using the filco for 4 months do I realize what a piece of garbage it is.  

In any case, how do you (if it's even possible or fair) compare/contrast the blue vs the topre?

[Rajagra]

The 87U ... has a solid feel that makes it different than a typical rubber dome - but not MILES apart so don't  be surprised if your first impression is "Huh, how much did I just pay?".

I've seen a few people say that, and now that I have one, I find it surprising. My 87U doesn't feel anything like any other rubber dome keyboard I've ever tried.

The keys don't collapse like other rubber domes do. Even after you pass the point of maximum force, and the dome deforms, there is still a clear force pushing back up. I would have thought the springs under the domes are the reason for this, but testing done here showed the springs provide only a tiny amount of the total force. Whatever the reason, the keys do keep pushing back up.

The keys move precisely and smoothly. Most keyboards manage one but not the other, at least not as well as the Realforce does. They feel much better engineered than any other keyboard I've tried. The difference between this and a typical store-bought dome keyboard is night and day.

Because the Topre domes 'buckle' higher up than normal rubber domes, they feel like they have more travel. I'm sure they don't move further, but all of the travel is functional, compared to normal domes where most of the key movement is pre-travel - you have to take up the slack before finally squashing the dome at the bottom of the travel.

Bottoming out is the strange thing about the 87U. It's hard to explain. It's both hard (sudden stop) and and soft (cushioned) at the same time. The nearest way I can describe it is what happens when a flat, heavy object hits a stationary flat surface. Although a lot of energy has to be absorbed, it happens over a wide surface area, so the forces stay low.

I've avoided commenting on my Realforce during the 'honeymoon' period after buying it. When you spend extra for a luxury item, it's near-impossible to be objective. But one thing I can say in all honesty is that this is not like typical dome keyboards. You couldn't mistake one for the other, at least in a side-by-side test.

I still have my blue-Cherried DAS on my desk but it is unplugged for now. Before the Realforce came nothing came close to making me disconnect the DAS. I sill plan to use it for noisy daytime sessions, but it will be for variety, not need. Maybe I'll even fire up that NoisyKeyboard program so I can still enjoy the sound of the blue Cherries. :lol:

[xfocus]

Well considering I ordered the board yesterday, I hope you're right, Rajagra.  I'm typing on my old Logitech G15 which means I'll probalby get the Realforce before the Filco.  If it feels anything like the G15 I might just cry.  I get it this Saturday so I'll try and post a review next week.  It'll be my first :-D

[mech]

I think the "miles apart" comparison isn't for other dome keyboards, it's among other high-end keyboards.  That is to say, not miles apart from a more typical $70-$150 keyboard with Cherry, Alps, BS, what have you, in terms of a quality key feel.  The manufacturing (fit & finish, etc.) seems to be among the highest in the biz, though.

You can't take a G15?  Let me go get you a $3.99 ultra-discount dome board, you'll be crying with every keypress.

[quadibloc]

The only things going for it is that it is light and is one of the easiest to not bottom out on.

Those are pretty good properties. If they got rid of the gratuitous noise, it would seem like those would be good switches.

[xfocus]

You can't take a G15?  Let me go get you a $3.99 ultra-discount dome board, you'll be crying with every keypress.

What I meant is, I'll cry because I just dropped $250 on a keyboard that feels exactly like the 4 year old keyboard sitting on my desk that has partially transparent keys from all the typing along with cheeto dust and dog hair sticking out of it.  

After typing on the blue cherries for 4 months the G15 feels only moderately better than typing on my laptop keyboard.  And if the topre feels like the G15 then I'll probably be looking to sell it soon.

[msiegel]

remember guys, webwit has a 3278...

[mech]

What I meant is, I'll cry because I just dropped $250 on a keyboard that feels exactly like the 4 year old keyboard sitting on my desk that has partially transparent keys from all the typing along with cheeto dust and dog hair sticking out of it.  

After typing on the blue cherries for 4 months the G15 feels only moderately better than typing on my laptop keyboard.  And if the topre feels like the G15 then I'll probably be looking to sell it soon.

Well yeah.  I'm interested to hear your opinion when you get it, but from what I've seen on here, the Realforce boards should not feel like those at all.  Hopefully that's true and not cognitive dissonance talking.

[timw4mail]

Blues bottom out easily compared to clears.

[xfocus]

Well yeah.  I'm interested to hear your opinion when you get it, but from what I've seen on here, the Realforce boards should not feel like those at all.  Hopefully that's true and not cognitive dissonance talking.

Finally got the keyboard and posted my first review. Here's the link.  Let me know what you think.

[williamjoseph]

I did something stupid yesterday and dropped a bit of coke on my arrow keys.  I disassembled the keys and cleaned them thoroughly.  The keys worked properly and I thought I had averted a disaster.

Today I noticed that my up and left keys don't click.  They have a uniform feel all the way through. I removed the keys and the switch itself feels different from the surrounding ones.  I believe that some syrup may have gotten inside the switch and dried up since yesterday.

My question is, how do I remove the switch to clean it?  I've tried looking online and in the forum but can't find any howtos.

Any help is appreciated!

when you say coke...... you are of course not refering to "booger sugar" or "nose candy"?    just thought to ask.......

[xfocus]

when you say coke...... you are of course not refering to "booger sugar" or "nose candy"?    just thought to ask.......

Of course I am.  Wait, you mean to say there's another kind?!

[bsvP585hUO2Y6]

BTW, I spoke too soon on the fix.  The keys started sticking within a few hours and soon were registering 2-3 hits per stroke.

I'm afraid there's no way to get them to work reliably while sticky stuff is still in them. After puring orange juice into my Cherry G80-3000, the only thing that could get the switches going again was complete disassembly and ultrasonic cleaning...

[bsvP585hUO2Y6]

So do they all work now?

Yes --- works prefectly now.

I first made the mistake and only desoldered/disassembled/cleaned about a dozen that were obviously stuck/broken, but I soon discovered another switch that made a "crunchy" sound, and then another one where the slider would stick every 20th actuation, and then another one that that had an unusually high resistance, and then another one... So I decided to desolder/disassemble/clean every single switch. No more symptoms since then.

Here's some more detail: http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?p=96101

[itlnstln]

The sound is silly. The way it makes that sound is sillier. The key doesn't make the sound, no, you press a device with the key which makes the sound.

QFT.  I think the blue Cherry is a kind of silly device.  IMO, any switch that clicks only for the sake of clicking is kinda silly.  The only switch I can think of off the top of my head that clicks as part of the switching mechanism is BS.  All the others are artificial.

[timw4mail]

QFT.  I think the blue Cherry is a kind of silly device.  IMO, any switch that clicks only for the sake of clicking is kinda silly.  The only switch I can think of off the top of my head that clicks as part of the switching mechanism is BS.  All the others are artificial.

This may explain why I like the brown cherry switches a little more than the blues.

[itlnstln]

Gotta love opinons.  From what I hear, they're quite a bit like a*sholes.  Strange, isn't it?

[timw4mail]

On the other hand, those fake clear Cherries are pretty nice...I haven't bothered opening one up to see how they click, though. It's probably pretty similar to the blue Cherry...but they don't seem to have that weird disconnect between tactile point and click...

[itlnstln]

I'd post a pic but my Legos don't have intestinal tracts.

If you had Legos with a*sholes, I would be very afraid.

[xfocus]

If you had Legos with a*sholes, I would be very afraid.

[itlnstln]

I am officially afraid.

[Rajagra]

QFT.  I think the blue Cherry is a kind of silly device.  IMO, any switch that clicks only for the sake of clicking is kinda silly.  The only switch I can think of off the top of my head that clicks as part of the switching mechanism is BS.  All the others are artificial.

That would be a fair point. If it were true.

Blue Cherries activate as they click. See below, and the Flash animation at the foot of the page.
The only reason the click fails when you do a "rapid-fire" action is because you are able to do that action. If you move the switch through the full range of motion - as you are forced to do on a buckling spring switch - you will get a click each time.

On a BS switch if you try to rapid-fire, not only will you get no clicks, you will get no rapid-fire. You may prefer that, but it certainly doesn't make the BS superior in every way.

From http://park16.wakwak.com/~ex4/kb/tech_cherry_mx.htm

[msiegel]

On a BS switch if you try to rapid-fire, not only will you get no clicks, you will get no rapid-fire. You may prefer that, but it certainly doesn't make the BS superior in every way.

aha, i think you've just identified why BS are often associated with a lower typo rate...

there's more time before activation to back-off of an erroneous keystroke... or to put english on it, to correct the order of "rolled" characters.

therefore, ibm model f is the best. XD (obvious troll is obviiioussss)

[wellington1869]

aha, i think you've just identified why BS are often associated with a lower typo rate...

there's more time before activation to back-off of an erroneous keystroke... or to put english on it, to correct the order of "rolled" characters.

I think there's some truth to this. A lot of my typos are from accidentally brushing a key or not having enough time to 'take it back'. Its true that with bs, you have lots of margin for error at the top of the stroke to 'take it back'.

[ msiegal, I just noticed that my avatar looks a little like your avatar -- xD ]

[Rajagra]

I won't argue with that. Having well-defined hysteresis is 'a good thing' for typing text. It would be nice to find a switch like that which doesn't need quite as much travel as the BS.

[itlnstln]

That would be a fair point. If it were true.

It is.  What does the clicking mechanism do other than click?  Cherry browns, blacks and clears don't use the clicking mechanism, so apparently, it's not necessary for the function of the switch. This is the opposite for BS.  The clicking is caused by the buckling of the spring which activates the switch.  Again, this is my opinion, but for me, putting in a mechanism for extra sound is little on the silly side.  If it works for you, great, you're who they're making the keyboard for, not me.

[timw4mail]

I won't argue with that. Having well-defined hysteresis is 'a good thing' for typing text. It would be nice to find a switch like that which doesn't need quite as much travel as the BS.

I'm sure if you had a BS mechanism, and then shortened the barrel and spring, it wouldn't have as much travel. There seems to be somewhat of a disconnect between the length of actuation, and the feel of the mechanism, though, so it probably wouldn't feel as nice.

[timw4mail]

It is.  What does the clicking mechanism do other than click?  Cherry browns, blacks and clears don't use the clicking mechanism, so apparently, it's not necessary for the function of the switch. This is the opposite for BS.  The clicking is caused by the buckling of the spring which activates the switch.  Again, this is my opinion, but for me, putting in a mechanism for extra sound is little on the silly side.  If it works for you, great, you're who they're making the keyboard for, not me.

I guess you just dissed every clicky switch that isn't BS.

[msiegel]

I guess you just dissed every clicky switch that isn't BS.

yeah, including white ALPS and Fukka!

*shakes fist in mock anger*

[timw4mail]

yeah, including white ALPS and Fukka!

*shakes fist in mock anger*

And I'd assume the SMK "clicky" switches, and the fake white Cherry switches, ...

[itlnstln]

I guess you just dissed every clicky switch that isn't BS.

Yep. It's just my opinion, though.

[msiegel]

well. i'll continue to enjoy my real-clicky ibm model f *and* my fake-clicky fukkas

[wellington1869]

I think every now and then when we're having a slow week we just have to have a 'my switch/keyboard/OS/mouse/printer/underwear is better than yours!' rumble in the jungle. Its just too much fun not to


(or better yet, I really want to have a poll about whether msiegal looks just a little bit like Beaker.) ;-)

[itlnstln]

I think every now and then when we're having a slow week we just have to have a 'my switch/keyboard/OS/mouse/printer/underwear is better than yours!' rumble in the jungle. Its just too much fun not to

It's just like religion, it's an argument you are never going to win.
 
 

(or better yet, I really want to have a poll about whether msiegal looks just a little bit like Beaker.) ;-)

Do you look like Bunson Honeydew?  You guys could be a team then.

[wellington1869]

It's just like religion, it's an argument you are never going to win.

thats why its great to pass the time with  
 

Do you look like Bunson Honeydew?  You guys could be a team then.

lol, I think I probably look like Oscar. Although I've been known to go 'meep meep meep' on occasion.

[msiegel]

the rise of the domes

webwit, is it time to start an open-source switch design?

we can start by reverse-engineering the 3278...

[JBert]

It is.  What does the clicking mechanism do other than click?  Cherry browns, blacks and clears don't use the clicking mechanism, so apparently, it's not necessary for the function of the switch. This is the opposite for BS.  The clicking is caused by the buckling of the spring which activates the switch.  Again, this is my opinion, but for me, putting in a mechanism for extra sound is little on the silly side.  If it works for you, great, you're who they're making the keyboard for, not me.

Well, the "clicker" does release the switch. The special thing is that it also contributes in key feel because it comes to a halt on some ridges on the key stem.

If you're talking about a "superficial click", that would be Alps, seeing how the click leaf is totally separate from the switch itself. Still, the mechanism works nicely.

The question is: does it matter? Most mechanisms have such a slight difference between click and activation that you couldn't tell the difference.
In fact, when a spring in a BS buckles, won't the rocker close the switch just before the spring hits the side of the spring well?

[itlnstln]

The question is: does it matter? Most mechanisms have such a slight difference between click and activation that you couldn't tell the difference.
In fact, when a spring in a BS buckles, won't the rocker close the switch just before the spring hits the side of the spring well?

True, but not quite the point. The clicking mechanism is Alps and Cherrys are for the express purpose of making noise, for better or worse. They are both well-designed in that they are, for all intents and purposes, well timed with activation. In the end, though, all they really do is make noise. In either case, those same companies have switches that work without the noise-makers.