[IC][Keyset] Otaku Kiibodo DSA - Available on Massdrop

[Bull1919]

Hi, I just saw this set, and noticed that it was a bit similar to the set that I've been working on at https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=72105.0. Seeing as we'd probably be releasing them to the SP interest check at around the same time, It might create a conflict of interest. Just something we probably need to think about.

Edit: If we somehow incorporated both sets into one interest check, say, by adding the modifiers that I'm using as a child deal to your set, it could eliminate the conflict of interest.

[Nostril]

Interesting.. That is the first time I have seen Katakana legends on a keyboard. I know that each Katakana glyph has a direct corresponding glyph in Hiragana. Is the Katakana layout corresponding to the layout of Hiragana on a regular Japanese keyboard?

BTW, "Otaku" was slang for blank keyboards for a little while. The use faded.
BTW 2. I am a little surprised that nobody from an Asian country other than Japan hasn't complained about the use of the Japanese Naval flag. There is a lot of hatred towards it because it represents Japanese occupation and oppression during WWII.

Yes, the Katakana layout corresponds to the Hiragana layout on a regular Japanese Keyboard.

Hi, I just saw this set, and noticed that it was a bit similar to the set that I've been working on at https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=72105.0. Seeing as we'd probably be releasing them to the SP interest check at around the same time, It might create a conflict of interest. Just something we probably need to think about.

Edit: If we somehow incorporated both sets into one interest check, say, by adding the modifiers that I'm using as a child deal to your set, it could eliminate the conflict of interest.

Yeah, our sets are similar, and I agree that we should talk about that. Sending you a PM!

[Nostril]

Here's a render of the revised layout:



... and a render of the Hiragana:



Again, please fill out the second feedback form. The second form (this one) is different from the first one. Here's the link again: http://goo.gl/forms/LfMHa1QJd6

Also not a huge fan of the off-colored esc key as part of the base set, just feels really awkward for me.

There will definitely at least be a regular colored esc key in the base set - maybe I'll make the off-colored one separate though. I am thinking I might have a color mod kit which would have the off color stuff as well as the red function row accents, and maybe some other stuff. The 2D graphic in the OP should show what I plan to include in the base set as of now.

[LieutenantJesus]

Hey dude! Love the set! I was planning on picking up a set in both the Japanese and the Latin for myself, and possibly a set for my sister.

I'm digging the Katanaka, but I'd go either way. The black legends, to me, look SO much better than the red ones. I also like the yellow-orange escape key, adds a little bit of variety to the layout.

Your renders are great, really helped put it in my mind. I think everyone should do renders, haha. Definitely looking forward to this set, though!

[Nostril]

Thanks for filling out the form everyone! More responses will always still help. From the poll so far, it's very clear that black legends are the more popular option (78.3% black to 17.4% red to 4.3% no preference). I could still use more feedback about the other aspects of it since there isn't as strong as a consensus on those.

Also, for those that put they are "Not interested" in the form, I appreciate your input a lot, and I do still take it into consideration. The more opinions, the better. I'd still like some more responses (Guests viewing this thread - I would love to hear your feedback as well!).

Hey dude! Love the set! I was planning on picking up a set in both the Japanese and the Latin for myself, and possibly a set for my sister.

I'm digging the Katanaka, but I'd go either way. The black legends, to me, look SO much better than the red ones. I also like the yellow-orange escape key, adds a little bit of variety to the layout.

Your renders are great, really helped put it in my mind. I think everyone should do renders, haha. Definitely looking forward to this set, though!

Glad that you like it!

I also really like the black legends, and it seems to be the popular opinion. I will definitely include the yellow-orange escape key in at least a child deal, and it will probably be in the base kit as well.

The renders can be tough work but yeah, they definitely are worth it.

[Nostril]

I have decided to change the home cluster in the base kit to be more standard icon modifiers. The Windows key legend has also been changed to a more standard icon modifier. This is because the Rising Sun graphic seems to be a polarizing decision - people seem to love it or hate it, so it will only be included as a child deal. Of course, I do not intend for any parts of the keyset to be offensive, but I think the Rising Sun flag is a cool looking option which I am sure some people will enjoy as a child deal.

I have also added F and J deep dish homing keys to the core set.

Here is the new core set:


Hiragana:


I have also reworked the child deals. These are not final, but they should be much closer to what will be available:
http://aaron-hong.com/OtakuKeyboardu/childdeals.html

[derezzed]

I have decided to change the home cluster in the base kit to be more standard icon modifiers. The Windows key legend has also been changed to a more standard icon modifier. This is because the Rising Sun graphic seems to be a polarizing decision - people seem to love it or hate it, so it will only be included as a child deal. Of course, I do not intend for any parts of the keyset to be offensive, but I think the Rising Sun flag is a cool looking option which I am sure some people will enjoy as a child deal.

I have also added F and J deep dish homing keys to the core set.

Here is the new core set:

Show Image

Hiragana:

Show Image

I have also reworked the child deals. These are not final, but they should be much closer to what will be available:
http://aaron-hong.com/OtakuKeyboardu/childdeals.html

I probably won't be able to get in on this unless there is a round 2, but I love everything about this set except the legends on the modifiers -- specifically, the shift keys, tab key, caps lock key, and control keys.  The kana look great and I can't decide which one I like better.  The orange escape key is a nice contrast and the kanji on the function row look fantastic.  I'm sorry to see the Rising Sun flag get cut but I understand the reason for that.  I was not previously aware that it is basically Japan's version of the Confederate flag.  Being a roundeye, I just liked how it looked.  I can imagine posting pictures with the Rising Sun flag nav keys on a Korean custom might cause a sh**storm with some people. 

Japan's modern flag is such a simple design (maybe too simple?), it seems a shame not to have it as one of the 1.5u or 1.25u modifier keys, even though it wouldn't be consistent with the rest of the modifiers.

[blastoid]

Hey, Nostril, I'm jumping in a bit late, but just wanted to say that I really this set is great! I've got a very similar thing going, but with Cyrillic labeling.

One point I wanted to bring up, it doesn't seem like anyone has mentioned the fact that SP does not offer dyesub on SA keycaps, not sure why. (Note on the spec sheet, only "two shot" and pad printing are offered.) Double-shot is an option, and it opens up the color possibilities, but SP's cost to strike a new brass legend plate is $45 per legend, which would make the up-front cost very high, although it would drop sharply as quantities rise, basically what we're seeing now with Modern Selectric.

tl;dr, if you're going with dyesub, SA is out.

To me, one of the best things about DSA is that the caps can be swapped out any way you like. I'm typing this on a Pok3r with DSA Dolch, where I have the numpad kit installed as a mono-legend number row, numpad + for my backspace key, etc. Previously, I've used the nav keys to map out the Fn layer.

On a set like this one, where the legends purely exist for novelty, there is very little reason to cap-swap, so a sculpted profile makes more sense to me. But with SA not an option, that only leaves DCS, but I hear complaints about the thickness.

Sorry to be raising problems without solutions!

[Nostril]

I have decided to change the home cluster in the base kit to be more standard icon modifiers. The Windows key legend has also been changed to a more standard icon modifier. This is because the Rising Sun graphic seems to be a polarizing decision - people seem to love it or hate it, so it will only be included as a child deal. Of course, I do not intend for any parts of the keyset to be offensive, but I think the Rising Sun flag is a cool looking option which I am sure some people will enjoy as a child deal.

I have also added F and J deep dish homing keys to the core set.

Here is the new core set:

Show Image

Hiragana:

Show Image

I have also reworked the child deals. These are not final, but they should be much closer to what will be available:
http://aaron-hong.com/OtakuKeyboardu/childdeals.html

I probably won't be able to get in on this unless there is a round 2, but I love everything about this set except the legends on the modifiers -- specifically, the shift keys, tab key, caps lock key, and control keys.  The kana look great and I can't decide which one I like better.  The orange escape key is a nice contrast and the kanji on the function row look fantastic.  I'm sorry to see the Rising Sun flag get cut but I understand the reason for that.  I was not previously aware that it is basically Japan's version of the Confederate flag.  Being a roundeye, I just liked how it looked.  I can imagine posting pictures with the Rising Sun flag nav keys on a Korean custom might cause a sh**storm with some people. 

Japan's modern flag is such a simple design (maybe too simple?), it seems a shame not to have it as one of the 1.5u or 1.25u modifier keys, even though it wouldn't be consistent with the rest of the modifiers.
(Attachment Link)

I'll definitely check out how it would look to have the modern Japan flag as a keycap. I tried doing it before and it kinda just looked like a red circle as a legend, and somehow didn't strike me as looking like a flag at all, haha. Maybe it will look better in person, so I'll check out what it looked like in render.

Hey, Nostril, I'm jumping in a bit late, but just wanted to say that I really this set is great! I've got a very similar thing going, but with Cyrillic labeling.

One point I wanted to bring up, it doesn't seem like anyone has mentioned the fact that SP does not offer dyesub on SA keycaps, not sure why. (Note on the spec sheet, only "two shot" and pad printing are offered.) Double-shot is an option, and it opens up the color possibilities, but SP's cost to strike a new brass legend plate is $45 per legend, which would make the up-front cost very high, although it would drop sharply as quantities rise, basically what we're seeing now with Modern Selectric.

tl;dr, if you're going with dyesub, SA is out.

To me, one of the best things about DSA is that the caps can be swapped out any way you like. I'm typing this on a Pok3r with DSA Dolch, where I have the numpad kit installed as a mono-legend number row, numpad + for my backspace key, etc. Previously, I've used the nav keys to map out the Fn layer.

On a set like this one, where the legends purely exist for novelty, there is very little reason to cap-swap, so a sculpted profile makes more sense to me. But with SA not an option, that only leaves DCS, but I hear complaints about the thickness.

Sorry to be raising problems without solutions!

Thanks for all the feedback and information! By the time I realized SA couldn't really work it was already out from the results of the first feedback form anyway, so I guess that worked out.

I'll be going with DSA for this keyset, for some of the reasons you mentioned. Someone also mentioned in the second feedback form that the set might work well mixed with some existing DSA sets. Also, from the second feedback form it is the most popular choice by a bit (45.5% prefer DSA, 36.4% prefer DCS, 9.1% no preference).

As far as cap swapping I think it would be useful for covering less conventional layouts without having to use too many blank keys. I also put on the numpad child kits extra keys for "0", "10", "11", "12", so you can use them as mono legends in the numrow like what you did or use them in the function row for people who didn't really like the circles thing going on in the function row.

[minTea]

The keyset looks really good!  I think if you basically added the color mods that Bull1919's set has and had those as a child deal it would be really cool.  The blue and green he has in his set look so good!  Honestly I prefer his shade of red as well but yours looks good too.

[Nostril]

The keyset looks really good!  I think if you basically added the color mods that Bull1919's set has and had those as a child deal it would be really cool.  The blue and green he has in his set look so good!  Honestly I prefer his shade of red as well but yours looks good too.

His set is very nice. We considered doing this, but ultimately decided not to since his modifiers require doubleshot legends, while mine are PBT dyesublimation. I think this will be just really confusing. Also, I would like to offer my core kit as at least an 87-key set, and I think having to get his modifiers as an extra child deal would make the set cost more than people would like if they wanted his modifiers. I think it would be better to keep the sets separate and spacing the interest checks and group buys out.

[apathy3cs]

I was not previously aware that it is basically Japan's version of the Confederate flag.  Being a roundeye, I just liked how it looked.  I can imagine posting pictures with the Rising Sun flag nav keys on a Korean custom might cause a sh**storm with some people. 

I wouldn't actually say that it's like our confederate flag.  Keep in mind that America stripped Japan at the end of WWII of this flag and the new one was used as a 'rebirth' of the nation, more or less.  There was no internal civil war like the union v confederates.  The flag is still used today by the Maritime Defense Force, but it's not the 'national' flag for Japan.  I will note it can be offensive though to Chinese and Koreans though, due to the atrocities of the war. (Keep in mind those that would be theoretically those directly affected by the war, and therefore would be in their 60s to waaaay older).  The fact that it is used so visibly I think we should be fine with the rays.

[zabuza1997]

I hope this will merge with Hosho.That's gonna be a nice collab

[derezzed]

I was not previously aware that it is basically Japan's version of the Confederate flag.  Being a roundeye, I just liked how it looked.  I can imagine posting pictures with the Rising Sun flag nav keys on a Korean custom might cause a sh**storm with some people. 

I wouldn't actually say that it's like our confederate flag.  Keep in mind that America stripped Japan at the end of WWII of this flag and the new one was used as a 'rebirth' of the nation, more or less.  There was no internal civil war like the union v confederates.  The flag is still used today by the Maritime Defense Force, but it's not the 'national' flag for Japan.  I will note it can be offensive though to Chinese and Koreans though, due to the atrocities of the war. (Keep in mind those that would be theoretically those directly affected by the war, and therefore would be in their 60s to waaaay older).  The fact that it is used so visibly I think we should be fine with the rays.

Show Image

I did not mean to imply that the Rising Sun flag represents a split within the Japanese nation but, rather, like the Confederate flag represents a culture that committed many atrocities against people, the Rising Sun flag represents a nation (for a period of time) whose military also committed many atrocities against people (notably, its neighbors).  I really like the Rising Sun design, but knowing that some people may find it offensive (for legitimate reasons) would make me hesitant to put it on my keyboard. But I probably won't be joining the group buy for this set, so consider my input from that context.

[Nostril]

At this point, I am pretty much just waiting for PMK to accept new submissions again, and I will put up this keyset and the child deals when it is available.

To clarify, this set will not be merged with Hosho.

The Rising Sun flag will not be included in the core set, but as a child deal. I am thinking that having it as a child deal would not veer people away from being interested in it if they did not like the flag (let me know if I am wrong though). With PMKs new system, people will be able to vote for it like they would normally for any other interest check, so if it has enough demand then it will be available. Like I said, this is not intended to be offensive. I am keeping it as a possible child deal option because from the feedback I received, it seems there is a good number of people who like it. I am a second-generation Chinese American but I am not offended by it, and like the look of it, but wouldn't mind if it wasn't available. Of course I do understand why this view may not be shared, as I am definitely of a younger generation and born and raised in America. I see valid points for both keeping and removing it, which is why I am taking this approach.

Nothing in the set is actually supposed to be an accurate representation of any culture, hence the silly name "Otaku Keyboardu" and such. I know that many of these discussions about representation will be forever controversial, so I would like to avoid it in this thread, but rather I would like to hear input on if this would affect your personal interest in the keyset itself or if you would be interested in it as a child deal. Personally, I just want to make a nice keyset that people like that has some cool mono-legend Japanese characters.

[rioc]

really nice set =)

would definitely go for one

[Happylomo]

So what's the final layout design, Nostril? The katakana layout in the OP?

Looking forward for the GB, man 

[Nostril]

So what's the final layout design, Nostril? The katakana layout in the OP?

Looking forward for the GB, man 

The replies I got from the feedback forms on the legends actually end up to be pretty much even votes between katakana and hiragana, for the people who do have a preference. Since I personally prefer the katakana, I will be going with that for the initial group buy. I really would like to be able to offer the hiragana legends as well, but I think that would be a stretch for now.

[Happylomo]

Yeah, both of them looks equally nice, tbh. But i'm also leaning towards the katakana layout. Will this keyset support 1.75u + 1u right shift, btw?

[trenzafeeds]

Looks very nice, would definitely buy if I can pull together the money.

[Nostril]

I have been talking with Massdrop and we are planning to drop this keyset. First of all, the set might have a name change to make it more appealing - haven't decided on it yet though, PM me if you have any suggestions! For the drop, we will be changing the base set to be only the alphanumeric characters. We are planning for there to be two options for the base kit - one with katakana and one with hiragana characters - hopefully this will please everyone who is interested in the set!

Also, we would still like to do an interest check on Massdrop to get some numbers, so I will be putting a poll up soon. Hope you guys are excited as I am! 

[trenzafeeds]

I have been talking with Massdrop and we are planning to drop this keyset. First of all, the set might have a name change to make it more appealing - haven't decided on it yet though, PM me if you have any suggestions! For the drop, we will be changing the base set to be only the alphanumeric characters. We are planning for there to be two options for the base kit - one with katakana and one with hiragana characters - hopefully this will please everyone who is interested in the set!

Also, we would still like to do an interest check on Massdrop to get some numbers, so I will be putting a poll up soon. Hope you guys are excited as I am! 

Wow, so this is some news! That's awesome to hear

[KRKS]

Massdrop

Well there goes my purchase of this.

[just66in]

I have been talking with Massdrop and we are planning to drop this keyset. First of all, the set might have a name change to make it more appealing - haven't decided on it yet though, PM me if you have any suggestions! For the drop, we will be changing the base set to be only the alphanumeric characters. We are planning for there to be two options for the base kit - one with katakana and one with hiragana characters - hopefully this will please everyone who is interested in the set!

Also, we would still like to do an interest check on Massdrop to get some numbers, so I will be putting a poll up soon. Hope you guys are excited as I am! 

Awwwwwww yeeeeaaaaaahhhhhh!

[E3E]

Damn, this one is looking good. This, if everything comes out right, would be my first DSA set, and I might consider buying the entire set because it's just that good.

[zeta]

Signed up just to say that this looks incredible. Just two questions: When do you think this will hit Massdrop? Is the set still dye-sub PBT? Your website says that it's doubleshot ABS.

[JackMills]

I would need to buy a third keyboard to house these, but this would be so much fun to have.

[Nostril]

Signed up just to say that this looks incredible. Just two questions: When do you think this will hit Massdrop? Is the set still dye-sub PBT? Your website says that it's doubleshot ABS.

Sorry for the late reply. I will put the poll up on Massdrop sometime in the next 4 days. I have been pretty busy recently and just wanted to have plenty of free time to respond to things when the poll is up. As for the drop itself, I don't have an ETA yet.

The drop is dyesub PBT. The page you were looking at is probably the outdated one, but I will be sure to update any old info before the poll goes up. Thanks for reminding me!

[Nostril]

Massdrop poll is up! If you are interested in this keyset, go and vote for your favorite child deals.

https://www.massdrop.com/vote/Otaku-Kiibodo-DSA-Keyset-Discussion

[Nostril]

The poll on Massdrop is half way to 200 votes!

[cheebs]

Decided the discussion probably doesn't belong here anyway...  Removed.

[Rainbow_]

as someone who can read Japanese characters, it really confused me when you wrote "otaku" in katakana that looked like the English letters, because all I could read was "ronamuhiri"

[Nostril]

Massdrop says this set will be coming soon! They are currently in the process of getting quotes from Signature Plastics. We would definitely still like to hear your thoughts on the set and child deals in the discussion though. Check it out here: https://www.massdrop.com/vote/Otaku-Kiibodo-DSA-Keyset-Discussion

[LeandreN]

tfw no ISO

[KoalaKaiser]

Really excited for this!

[AdmiralSquid]

Pretty cool set, glad you are doing it through Massdrop, they make the whole process very convenient. Im a fan of the non-standard legends on caps, blanks are boring but these are similar but have a unique style.

[Nostril]

The set is now up and available on Massdrop. Be sure to check out the community page to see the drop points.

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/otaku-kiibodo-pbt-dsa-keycap-set

[kaiwwww]

我只希望你的家庭能知道你想用日本帝國主義的軍旗來設計鍵帽

[E3E]

I guess the decision to pull the imperial flag was a good idea. I think we kind of just gloss over how this could be offensive in our western culture and just associate it with the tendency to love everything Japan these days, but after reading up on a lot of what the flag symbolizes, it would pretty much be similar to putting the Nazi swastika on a keyboard and saying that, while acknowledging its potential offensiveness, it looked cool. It'd just be in poor taste either way. There are definitely people who just dig old military garb from that era without any real sympathies toward the axis groups, but...

Still, just a liiiittle insensitive, and this is coming from someone who really liked the rising sun design.

[Dernubenfrieken]

I guess the decision to pull the imperial flag was a good idea. I think we kind of just gloss over how this could be offensive in our western culture and just associate it with the tendency to love everything Japan these days, but after reading up on a lot of what the flag symbolizes, it would pretty much be similar to putting the Nazi swastika on a keyboard and saying that, while acknowledging its potential offensiveness, it looked cool. It'd just be in poor taste either way. There are definitely people who just dig old military garb from that era without any real sympathies toward the axis groups, but...

Still, just a liiiittle insensitive, and this is coming from someone who really liked the rising sun design.

Even from a practical standpoint, it was a good idea to remove what is essentially a redundant child pack.

[atectatifern]

This has opened the door for every group that gets offended to get keysets censored. Bad idea.

[KRKS]

I mean, it's not like Massdrop has provided multiple reasons to not do things through them before this, right? Or did people forget about bad resistors(or was it diodes), stolen HHKB case, Granite canceling and Smash Adler? Just because leddit hypes them doesn't mean they're good.

Or decent.

Or even worth considering.

But yeah, now you can add danger of potential group buy canceling because of political correctness to that list.

[My_Thoughts]

This has opened the door for every group that gets offended to get keysets censored. Bad idea.

Yup, this opens up a worrying future

[acantha]

This has opened the door for every group that gets offended to get keysets censored. Bad idea.

Yup, this opens up a worrying future

cry me a ****ing river. massdrop is a business and theres no good way to do business with that kind of subject matter. its lose lose for them. its not censorship, its just ****ing common sense. i'm so sorry you won't get to have a flag associated with complex topics like industrial scale rape, genocide, and war crimes on your keyboard. that must be so hard for you. massdrop are such bastards for putting their business and common decency first.

guess what? sometimes, the right reaction is for people to be offended and **** to not get done. thats not censorship, thats good judgement checking a bad choice.

[MeltingTeeth]

Banzai!!!

[BigTinz]

I can't believe PC culture has infiltrated the mechanical keyboard community.

If you don't like something, don't buy it.

[atectatifern]

I can't believe PC culture has infiltrated the mechanical keyboard community.

If you don't like something, don't buy it.

Hear, hear. Would love to see the designer do a separate GB outside MD. I'm in for two if he does.

[Lepidus]

Thats why you should never use massdrop to GB your stuff.

[atectatifern]

SP probably wouldn't have caved, but they might have required a copyright waiver from the Emperor of Japan.

[neverused]

i'm so sorry you won't get to have a flag associated with complex topics like industrial scale rape, genocide, and war crimes on your keyboard. that must be so hard for you. massdrop are such bastards for putting their business and common decency first.

guess what? sometimes, the right reaction is for people to be offended and **** to not get done. thats not censorship, thats good judgement checking a bad choice

1. Chill the **** out and don't be such a ****. It's a perfectly valid opinion and you have no right to get so God damn worked up about it. If he or she feels that way, stfu and don't rain on their parade.

2. Please that flag stands for many things and the ones you listed most every country is guilty of. It's not right or fair but neither is life so put on your big girl panties, take a deep breath, and think about what point you want to make before you type next time. You really want to attribute political correctness to such things? There goes any national flag or emblem. Calm down and get off your ****ing soap box.