Author Topic: [IC][Keyset] Otaku Kiibodo DSA - Available on Massdrop  (Read 47141 times)

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Offline Nostril

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[IC][Keyset] Otaku Kiibodo DSA - Available on Massdrop
« on: Wed, 20 May 2015, 22:58:48 »

Coming soon
Join the discussion on Massdrop!
Please vote on the base kit and child deals you want if you are interested!


The Child Deals and base kits have been reformatted so that the base kits now fit a 60% keyboard, and there are two available to choose from - a katakana and hiragana base kit.

Last Updated: 6/7/2015
(5/31/2015) Please fill out this second feedback form to help me finalize the design of this set:
http://goo.gl/forms/HK8okq9C8x
Please fill out this form if you are interested in this set:
http://goo.gl/forms/m5EPUcCtrf
(Please fill out the form only once per person interested)
Form closed for now. Another one will be up later.


Expand to see 3D renders of the design:
More




Base Kits:
Katakana:

Hiragana:


Description
The Otaku Kiibodo is inspired by Japan.
The aesthetic is clean and minimalist, with a mix of modern and classic styling cues.

This set is geared mostly towards touch typists, since it has katakana characters for the alphanumeric keys. There will however be child deals for non-touch typists, with Latin characters.

Features
  • Dye sublimation legends
  • PBT material
  • Keycap profile: DSA
  • Colors: GQN RBD OBB
  • Layout based on MS-IME Kana Input

Child Deals
These are currently the child deals that are being considered (please vote for them on Massdrop):
  • Beige Tenkeyless Modifiers
  • Red Tenkeyless Modifiers
  • Numpad
  • ISO Kit
  • Alternate/Nonstandard Layout Kit (Tsangan)
  • Japanese  Flag Home Cluster & Winkeys
  • Rising Sun Flag Home Cluster & Winkeys
  • Bars and Blanks (Individual)
Mockups and more information about child deals for this set can be viewed here:
http://aaron-hong.com/OtakuKiibodoDSA
« Last Edit: Sun, 05 December 2021, 09:08:33 by Nostril »
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Offline rowdy

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Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 20 May 2015, 23:01:01 »
I'm not sure about the keyset, but those are fantastic renders! :)

How did you do them?
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

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Offline Nostril

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Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 20 May 2015, 23:06:34 »
I'm not sure about the keyset, but those are fantastic renders! :)

How did you do them?


Thanks! I found this single-unit keycap model (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=52886.0) and imported that into Maya, then made a few more keycap sizes by modifying that and modelled a keyboard case. I made a modified version of that 2D keyset graphic, and applied that as a texture for it. Got a friend to make the materials look a bit nicer. I'm a college student studying computer science with an emphasis on game-industry related skills, so that knowledge definitely came in handy!
« Last Edit: Wed, 20 May 2015, 23:10:01 by Nostril »
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Offline IvanIvanovich

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Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 20 May 2015, 23:36:26 »
I really like the design, but absolutely despise DSA. I would love to see it tweaked some with the colors to make it workable as a dyesublmiation set... which would be a LOT cheaper too since there would be no need to have custom tooling made. The navy on red is possible, but it would need to be switch to red on beige for the main keys since red on navy wouldn't be possible with dyesub. Could put it on Cherry profile then too.
« Last Edit: Wed, 20 May 2015, 23:39:18 by IvanIvanovich »

Offline Hellcatz

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Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
« Reply #4 on: Thu, 21 May 2015, 00:15:53 »
Thats pretty awesome

Offline Nostril

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Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
« Reply #5 on: Thu, 21 May 2015, 01:41:55 »
I really like the design, but absolutely despise DSA. I would love to see it tweaked some with the colors to make it workable as a dyesublmiation set... which would be a LOT cheaper too since there would be no need to have custom tooling made. The navy on red is possible, but it would need to be switch to red on beige for the main keys since red on navy wouldn't be possible with dyesub. Could put it on Cherry profile then too.

Thanks for the feedback!

I haven't tried DSA caps myself - only own DCS caps, but I like the look of them. I don't really like the look of SA caps and have been just seeing a ton of them recently. I wouldn't be opposed to making them DCS if that's more popular though.

I made a quick mockup of those suggestions you had for making them work with dyesub:


I am personally much more fond of the navy keycaps, but I don't think these look bad. Also I haven't actually seen any dyesub keycaps with more color on them. Do you have any picture references? I would be somewhat concerned about the navy being discolored between the different colored materials.

Also this is probably a stupid question - but is it possible to make the keycaps red and dyesub everything but the legend navy? I would imagine it wouldn't be difficult as long as the printing area is enough to cover the keycap.
« Last Edit: Thu, 21 May 2015, 15:35:38 by Nostril »
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Offline KnivesM

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Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
« Reply #6 on: Thu, 21 May 2015, 02:05:53 »
I really like the design, but absolutely despise DSA. I would love to see it tweaked some with the colors to make it workable as a dyesublmiation set... which would be a LOT cheaper too since there would be no need to have custom tooling made. The navy on red is possible, but it would need to be switch to red on beige for the main keys since red on navy wouldn't be possible with dyesub. Could put it on Cherry profile then too.

Thanks for the feedback!

I haven't tried DSA caps myself - only own DCS caps, but I like the look of them. I don't really like the look of SA caps and have been just seeing a ton of them recently. I wouldn't be opposed to making them DCS if that's more popular though.

I made a quick mockup of those suggestions you had for making them work with dyesub:
Show Image


I am personally much more fond of the navy keycaps, but I don't think these look bad. Also I haven't actually seen any dyesub keycaps with more color on them. Do you have any picture references? I would be somewhat concerned about the navy being discolored between the different colored materials.

Also this is probably a stupid question - but is it possible to make the keycaps red and dyesub everything but the legend navy? I would imagine it wouldn't be difficult as long as the printing area is enough to cover the keycap.
This I would buy in DCS dyesub. The earlier design for me felt like it was split/conflicting with the boldness of the blue red and the subtlety of the grey. The blue red dyesub has been done but I think the shade of blue navy is would make it impossible in this case. IMSTO's blue red dyesub
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Offline KRKS

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Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 21 May 2015, 11:20:15 »
Put Homu on Homu button!  ;D

On a serious note, maybe try using some kanji on the home cluster, I think it the whole keyset would look nicer if it was a bit more simplified. Also, the proper nineball is empty(⑨).
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Offline derezzed

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Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 21 May 2015, 11:49:43 »
I like the revision.  I really like the rising sun on the nav cluster.  Have you considered using kanji in the circles on the function row?  Have you considered using kanji on the modifiers instead of symbols or, if you want to keep the set pure katakana, using furigana instead of symbols?  Although, furigana could make the modifiers look too cluttered if there are a lot of syllables.

Offline pizza_is_a_lie

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Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
« Reply #9 on: Thu, 21 May 2015, 14:37:15 »
As above. I think I prefer the red and grey... would suit a Ducky with its silver bezel no end... hint hint  :thumb:

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
« Reply #10 on: Thu, 21 May 2015, 14:40:43 »
I'm a bit confused OP. I was wondering how much you were quoted for the custom molds if we're doing doubleshots. Or have you decided to got with dyesubs?

Offline Steezus

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Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
« Reply #11 on: Thu, 21 May 2015, 15:02:47 »
I really like the design, but absolutely despise DSA. I would love to see it tweaked some with the colors to make it workable as a dyesublmiation set... which would be a LOT cheaper too since there would be no need to have custom tooling made. The navy on red is possible, but it would need to be switch to red on beige for the main keys since red on navy wouldn't be possible with dyesub. Could put it on Cherry profile then too.

It sucks that we're limited to the same fonts when it comes to doubleshots unless the community is willing to pay premium price, it'd be nice if we could find a way to make it cheaper.
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Offline Nostril

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Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 21 May 2015, 15:08:03 »
Thanks for the input guys! The general feedback about the colors and profile is definitely noted! Seems like the other color scheme is more popular so it'll probably be like that. I'll try and create a number of color schemes that people seem to like and have them and some profile choices up on a Google form later, to figure out what's popular from there.

Also, if anyone is interested in working with me more closely on this keyset that would be awesome! Just send me a PM.

Put Homu on Homu button!  ;D

On a serious note, maybe try using some kanji on the home cluster, I think it the whole keyset would look nicer if it was a bit more simplified. Also, the proper nineball is empty(⑨).

I have tried putting legends over the rising sun flag with inverted colors - but they look pretty weird, and I really like the rising sun flag. I looked up what some of the words in the home cluster would look like in kanji and I thought they looked a bit complicated and made the thing look a bit cluttered. I'll try and figure out the translations though and come up with a mockup eventually. Are you talking about the F9 key? Haha! I love the idea, but probably not just that key by itself. Maybe I'll save that idea for another keyset!

I like the revision.  I really like the rising sun on the nav cluster.  Have you considered using kanji in the circles on the function row?  Have you considered using kanji on the modifiers instead of symbols or, if you want to keep the set pure katakana, using furigana instead of symbols?  Although, furigana could make the modifiers look too cluttered if there are a lot of syllables.

I made a quick mockup of the kanji characters in the function row.



I think the idea of having kanji on the modifiers can definitely be cool. As far as keeping the set pure katakana - I don't really care much for that, but just thought katakana looked super cool. I think kanji would be the way to go on the modifiers though since they are more condensed and icon-like, which seems fitting for a modifier key.

It'll take me a much longer time to come up with a mockup of those modifiers, but I will work on it. I know nothing about Japanese, so I'll have to figure out the right translations, and also those kanji characters take a much longer time to vectorize than the katakana ones.

I'm a bit confused OP. I was wondering how much you were quoted for the custom molds if we're doing doubleshots. Or have you decided to got with dyesubs?

I have not gotten a quote on it yet - I assumed I would get one when I submitted to PMK. This is my first keyset - so I honestly don't know exactly what I'm doing. I will reach out to them today regarding this!

I read on the Signature Plastics FAQ that the doubleshot legends are limited to line fonts - and it had a document which showed examples of the ones they offer. I've seen other doubleshot keysets with other fonts such as Deep Space, EVE, and Penumbra - so I was assuming these are custom molds since they aren't using one of those fonts in the document? If anyone could clarify this for me, that would be great!

If it turns out being way too expensive with doubleshots, I will definitely go with dyesubs. Also, I will probably go with dyesubs if we go with the beige alphanumeric keys, and if I'm doing dyesub, I might as well use PBT too - so that will be happening if that's the case.
« Last Edit: Thu, 21 May 2015, 15:35:58 by Nostril »
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Offline derezzed

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Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
« Reply #13 on: Thu, 21 May 2015, 17:38:55 »
I finally got the opportunity to use Google translate since making my last post.  It looks like many of the names for the modifiers are foreign words, so they are spelled with katakana.  Many other words are spelled with kanji but I forced Google translate to use katakana.  You should do some research and determine whether you want mixed writing systems on your modifiers or whether you want to use only kanji (may be more complicated and may require some creativity to convert loan words to kanji) or only katakana (easier but some legends will be quite long) before you make the effort to convert additional characters to vector graphics.  The number of kana in the modifier names and the various sizes of the modifier keys could result in the modifier keys having different sized kana. 

Offline apathy3cs

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Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
« Reply #14 on: Thu, 21 May 2015, 21:56:42 »
I would also say that DCS is much better to type on (once again preference).

on almost all Japanese keyboards though, they use english for the home cluster.  If you are wanting to do something with it (I candidly love the flag going over it、and nothing else inhibiting), you can try it with these:

Insert: イサーと | 入れる  (Might work best as i (入) for simplification)
Home: ホム | 家 (Literal - residence) | 帰る (Literal - return to home.  Might work best as kai (帰) for this instead of residence)
Page Up: パージ ウプ | パージ上 (It might look better with just ue (上) if you are looking for kanji.)
Delete: デリート | 消す (Literal again)
End: エヌード | 結果 (Kekka = end (result).  You could use 終り (Conclusion) Instead, but either should be usable.)
Page Down: パージ  | パージ下 (Once again it might look better with just ****a (下) if you are looking for kanji )

Offline zabuza1997

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Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
« Reply #15 on: Fri, 22 May 2015, 12:45:04 »
SA please.SA please.DSA sucks  :)) :)) :)) :))

Offline IvanIvanovich

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Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
« Reply #16 on: Fri, 22 May 2015, 14:42:12 »
Having Japanese labels on any non alpha keys is pretty rare... and it's looks awfully busy and generally kind of bad on the few I have seen that did. I think ICON style is a far better choice. It's nice and clean, and universal.
I like the changes... which of course since I suggested it... of course being cheaper and more possible to get manufacturer for a sane price, I think it says Japan more than the red on navy.
« Last Edit: Fri, 22 May 2015, 14:44:37 by IvanIvanovich »

Offline YMSNoms

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Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
« Reply #17 on: Fri, 22 May 2015, 16:47:43 »
I am all over this gimme gimme gimme
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Offline Nostril

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Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
« Reply #18 on: Sat, 23 May 2015, 01:53:12 »
I contacted Signature Plastics - it looks like I will be going for dyesub for sure on this set, since I'd have to sell about 150 doubleshot sets to make it reasonable, and the doubleshot legends will not be able to fully cover the tops of the keycaps on the home cluster anyway.

I will be working on a few other color schemes that will also be able to facilitate this, so there will be a few more options to consider.

EDIT 2: Here's some mockups of some changes. Changed the colors of the katakana legends. Made the render actually show a different profile. Please let me know what you think about these changes!




I will be changing the colors slightly but in a similar way. I would like the red to be the same except in PBT. The closest good looking yellow color would be more orange. The beige is kind of sterile looking to me in the render - so I would want to make it more creamy in color, I would like it to be roughly the color of old parchment paper.
Also, does anyone know of any keysets with a mix of doubleshot and dyesub keys? Wondering if the would sound or look super inconsistent. I was thinking something like this could be cool:





EDIT 1: Actually - totally forgot that doubleshots would pretty much only be in ABS. So these will be ABS if we do this.


SA please.SA please.DSA sucks  :)) :)) :)) :))

It seems like from the feedback from here this set won't be DSA, so it might be either DCS or SA.

Having Japanese labels on any non alpha keys is pretty rare... and it's looks awfully busy and generally kind of bad on the few I have seen that did. I think ICON style is a far better choice. It's nice and clean, and universal.
I like the changes... which of course since I suggested it... of course being cheaper and more possible to get manufacturer for a sane price, I think it says Japan more than the red on navy.

I am curious as to what you think about the kanji characters for the function row?
« Last Edit: Sun, 05 December 2021, 09:06:48 by Nostril »
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Offline Nostril

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Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
« Reply #19 on: Sat, 23 May 2015, 03:40:38 »
Made some more changes. Just changed navy to black. Changed the colors to PBT colors - which still aren't final. Not sure on the escape key right now. I would like the beige color (GQN) to be a bit less green - so I might look for another similar color here. Changed which of the FN keys are red and beige to make each section of the keyboard more distinct.



EDIT: Here's some renders:

Black Legends


Red Legends

EDIT 2: I decided I didn't like the red FN keys after seeing those renders, so I changed them back. Here's some more renders:


Black Legends without red FN


Red Legends without red FN
« Last Edit: Sat, 23 May 2015, 04:34:14 by Nostril »
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Offline pizza_is_a_lie

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Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
« Reply #20 on: Sat, 23 May 2015, 05:01:12 »
The black legends one above looks insanely better than the red legends, IMO

Offline Nostril

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Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
« Reply #21 on: Sat, 23 May 2015, 05:14:50 »
The black legends one above looks insanely better than the red legends, IMO

I agree. The black legends one reminds me a lot of those airplane models that Japan Airlines used to give out for free on their flights - I have a couple of those in my house and the white colors on them have aged to be a similar color to the beige on this keyboard. I like that!

Here's a few more edits for the mockup - now I have the white function keys again. Made the number icons red again, while leaving the katakana black.

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Offline livingspeedbump

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Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
« Reply #22 on: Sat, 23 May 2015, 20:47:54 »
Those 3D models are awesome! Been trying to learn Blender to be able to make some for my current (possibly future?) keycap sets. Not an easy task, but yours look amazing.
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Offline KnivesM

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Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
« Reply #23 on: Sun, 24 May 2015, 00:30:06 »
Oooh I like the red legends version with the Red FN  :thumb:
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Offline just66in

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Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
« Reply #24 on: Sun, 24 May 2015, 04:16:30 »
wow if only the red on navy wld work w doubleshots. They look great imo

Offline nilpt

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Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
« Reply #25 on: Sun, 24 May 2015, 05:09:40 »
Like this idea very much and would like to see ISO (even JIS?) options.
Why keep those latin numerals?
What about a numpad (no latin of course...)?
Homing key indicators in various flavors (bump, deep dish) would be nice.
 :thumb:
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Offline Nostril

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Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
« Reply #26 on: Sun, 24 May 2015, 07:24:37 »
Like this idea very much and would like to see ISO (even JIS?) options.
Why keep those latin numerals?
What about a numpad (no latin of course...)?
Homing key indicators in various flavors (bump, deep dish) would be nice.
 :thumb:

I am actually currently working on all of these options. You can see my progress here: http://aaron-hong.com/OtakuKeyboardu/childdeals.html. I'm still working on the numpad sets (that numlock key definitely won't say "locku" haha!), the ISO kit, and all the other kits that have no image. Also, could someone please tell me what keys exactly should be included with the ISO kit? I have never owned an ISO keyboard, so I've been looking it up and have been finding all sorts of things. I'll probably put in the bump homing indicators as you suggested.

I considered removing those Latin numerals. I guess my reason for keeping them is mostly because of my own experience. I do a lot of coding and my main keyboard has blank keycaps. I find it somewhat hard to quickly locate a key on the numrow, especially when looking for a special character, without moving all of my fingers up. Otherwise, I don't really have any problems finding any other keys, so I thought this would help. Perhaps this is just a personal issue. Maybe this will be less of an issue with this set since there would still be katakana characters that I could associate with. I'll consider this. I would love to hear other people's input on this as well!
« Last Edit: Sun, 24 May 2015, 07:46:27 by Nostril »
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Offline pizza_is_a_lie

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Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
« Reply #27 on: Sun, 24 May 2015, 08:45:54 »
You have the correct mods for ISO on your website, just lacking a 2 with " and a 3 with the £  :thumb:

Consider making the beige keys a grey, perhaps to match the Ducky Mini silver bezel?  :p
« Last Edit: Sun, 24 May 2015, 08:47:35 by pizza_is_a_lie »

Offline nilpt

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Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
« Reply #28 on: Sun, 24 May 2015, 08:47:11 »
... Also, could someone please tell me what keys exactly should be included with the ISO kit? I have never owned an ISO keyboard, so I've been looking it up and have been finding all sorts of things. I'll probably put in the bump homing indicators as you suggested.
I think normally accepted ISO keys are from a UK layout because they are most close to the US layout.
Your current http://aaron-hong.com/OtakuKeyboardu/img/childdeals/ISO.png
is missing the AltGr option and have an "extra" numrow key., and is too "western". I think "westen" symbols should not be used at all, even in the numpad, must you use: "# ÷ x - +"?


I considered removing those Latin numerals. I guess my reason for keeping them is mostly because of my own experience. I do a lot of coding and my main keyboard has blank keycaps. I find it somewhat hard to quickly locate a key on the numrow, especially when looking for a special character, without moving all of my fingers up. Otherwise, I don't really have any problems finding any other keys, so I thought this would help. Perhaps this is just a personal issue. Maybe this will be less of an issue with this set since there would still be katakana characters that I could associate with. I'll consider this. I would love to hear other people's input on this as well!
I see this set for a western touch typist and personally prefer no latin characters whatsoever...
« Last Edit: Sun, 24 May 2015, 13:23:07 by nilpt »
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Offline Nostril

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Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
« Reply #29 on: Mon, 25 May 2015, 01:59:46 »
You have the correct mods for ISO on your website, just lacking a 2 with " and a 3 with the £  :thumb:

Consider making the beige keys a grey, perhaps to match the Ducky Mini silver bezel?  tongue emoticon

I was thinking since the 2 and 3 keys didn't normally have special characters labelled, it wouldn't make sense to include them in the ISO kit (besides working for the latin alphanumeric characters child deal I guess).

I'm actually pretty happy with the colors right now, but I'll play around with them and post something if it looks good.


... Also, could someone please tell me what keys exactly should be included with the ISO kit? I have never owned an ISO keyboard, so I've been looking it up and have been finding all sorts of things. I'll probably put in the bump homing indicators as you suggested.
I think normally accepted ISO keys are from a UK layout because they are most close to the US layout.
Your current http://aaron-hong.com/OtakuKeyboardu/img/childdeals/ISO.png
is missing the AltGr option and have an "extra" numrow key., and is too "western". I think "westen" symbols should not be used at all, even in the numpad, must you use: "# � x - +"?


I considered removing those Latin numerals. I guess my reason for keeping them is mostly because of my own experience. I do a lot of coding and my main keyboard has blank keycaps. I find it somewhat hard to quickly locate a key on the numrow, especially when looking for a special character, without moving all of my fingers up. Otherwise, I don't really have any problems finding any other keys, so I thought this would help. Perhaps this is just a personal issue. Maybe this will be less of an issue with this set since there would still be katakana characters that I could associate with. I'll consider this. I would love to hear other people's input on this as well!
I see this set for a western touch typist and personally prefer no latin characters whatsoever...

Thanks for the clarification! Since the alt keys are icons in this set, then I wouldn't think the kit would need a distinct AltGr keycap. Correct me if I'm wrong though. The numlock key is going to change, but I'm still trying to design a nice icon for it. Would you suggest I use "/ * - +" instead then? I like the "÷ x - +" in that they are pretty squarely proportional which makes them fit the look of the other icon-like legends.

Yeah, I guess getting rid of the latin numbers makes a lot of sense, especially when the function row has number legends in kanji. I will leave them on the latin alphanumerics child deal though - since it's for non-touch typists.

New renders with numbers removed:
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Offline Evo_Spec

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Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
« Reply #30 on: Mon, 25 May 2015, 03:58:13 »
Very cool! Great job.

I actually had a similar idea that I never shared because I didn't want to organize a gb or go through the work of finalizing the design lol
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Offline nilpt

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Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
« Reply #31 on: Mon, 25 May 2015, 05:02:39 »

Thanks for the clarification! Since the alt keys are icons in this set, then I wouldn't think the kit would need a distinct AltGr keycap. Correct me if I'm wrong though. The numlock key is going to change, but I'm still trying to design a nice icon for it. Would you suggest I use "/ * - +" instead then? I like the "÷ x - +" in that they are pretty squarely proportional which makes them fit the look of the other icon-like legends.


The AltGr is just a small detail, for me you can leave them both as Alt.
Better ask an hardcore ISO user how to manage Alt vs AltGr  ;)
About the numpad operation symbols my question is just regarding the symbols being "western", not "÷" vs "/" or "x" vs "*". Would prefer "nice icons" for them...
This new render looks very nice.
Good job.
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Offline Nostril

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Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
« Reply #32 on: Mon, 25 May 2015, 05:36:30 »

Thanks for the clarification! Since the alt keys are icons in this set, then I wouldn't think the kit would need a distinct AltGr keycap. Correct me if I'm wrong though. The numlock key is going to change, but I'm still trying to design a nice icon for it. Would you suggest I use "/ * - +" instead then? I like the "÷ x - +" in that they are pretty squarely proportional which makes them fit the look of the other icon-like legends.


The AltGr is just a small detail, for me you can leave them both as Alt.
Better ask an hardcore ISO user how to manage Alt vs AltGr  ;)
About the numpad operation symbols my question is just regarding the symbols being "western", not "÷" vs "/" or "x" vs "*". Would prefer "nice icons" for them...
This new render looks very nice.
Good job.

Hmm, I'm trying to think of what that would look like. I was thinking everything that isn't Japanese characters in this set would be universal icons, and I think "÷ x - +" are pretty universal icons for what they are. I'm wondering what you had in mind?
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Offline nilpt

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Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
« Reply #33 on: Mon, 25 May 2015, 06:06:17 »
I had in mind, just japanese characters for every key  :)
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Offline Nostril

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Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
« Reply #34 on: Mon, 25 May 2015, 06:26:00 »
I had in mind, just japanese characters for every key  :)

I checked out Google translate, and it looks like Japanese translations for multiply, divide, minus/subtract, plus/add are pretty cluttered, even in Kanji. I think they wouldn't fit well especially on a single-unit keycap. Sorry about this, but I don't think this would work well.
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Offline Nostril

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Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
« Reply #35 on: Mon, 25 May 2015, 06:34:15 »
Interest form is up! Please fill it out to help me gauge interest, and finalize a few design decisions and the child deals.  :thumb:

Link to the form: http://goo.gl/forms/m5EPUcCtrf
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Offline Evo_Spec

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Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
« Reply #36 on: Mon, 25 May 2015, 22:16:40 »
Sorry I kinda submitted the form and thought about this after but is anyone else not a fan on the dot Kanji for the numbers? I personally would prefer the regular Kanji letters like in the numpad kit for the regular set.
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Offline apathy3cs

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Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
« Reply #37 on: Tue, 26 May 2015, 00:40:04 »
I kind of find it amusing with the circle due to touhou, and the ⑨ they use in relation.  from a view perspective I like that it's different, but I could see that it might make things hard to read.

Offline Nostril

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Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
« Reply #38 on: Tue, 26 May 2015, 18:33:54 »
Sorry I kinda submitted the form and thought about this after but is anyone else not a fan on the dot Kanji for the numbers? I personally would prefer the regular Kanji letters like in the numpad kit for the regular set.

I personally prefer the circles for the differentiation - especially since they would just be the same legends as the numpad without them. Tried them though, and doesn't look bad without the circles either:



I put up a question for this on the interest form to gather opinions on this. If you have an opinion for or against it, and have already submitted your form, please just go ahead and resubmit another form with neutral opinions toward all the questions (wherever you can, anyway) and note that the form is a resubmission for the circles decision in the additional comments section. That would be highly appreciated!
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Offline Tiramisuu

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Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu - Updated Colors (Interest Form Up!)
« Reply #39 on: Tue, 26 May 2015, 19:46:06 »
Some price ranges would help with the interest check.

I regularly see pictures I might be interested in and then someone quote 95$ us a set plus shipping and I quickly lose interest :)
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Offline ceflame

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Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu - Updated Colors (Interest Form Up!)
« Reply #40 on: Tue, 26 May 2015, 23:13:04 »
I'm actually really interested in this.

Are you 100% set on using katakana for the alphas?

I would rather have hiragana, similar to how Japanese keyboards have it. Do you think you could do a mockup for it?

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Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu - Updated Colors (Interest Form Up!)
« Reply #41 on: Thu, 28 May 2015, 20:23:15 »
Some price ranges would help with the interest check.

I regularly see pictures I might be interested in and then someone quote 95$ us a set plus shipping and I quickly lose interest :)

From the results of what I have gathered with the interest checks so far, it looks like the keyset will be in DSA profile. Here is the price quote I received from Signature Plastics on the 87-key DSA set dyesubbed:

EDIT: Looking at the results again, DSA was the most popular, followed by DCS, followed by SA. I believe many of the people who chose SA would rather have DCS over DSA. In my next feedback form I will limit the choices to DSA or DCS.

25 sets         $98 per set
50 sets         $83 per set
75 sets         $72 per set
100 sets                $69 per set
150 sets                $67 per set
200 sets                $65 per set

However, I am still looking at options on how to sell the set. I am looking to find a platform to help with selling the set. This may or may not be a group buy model. PMK is transitioning to a new model, which I would like to see first. [CTRL]ALT seems to be going through a transitional period with JTKeycaps and all sorts of new stuff. I will settle on design choices and make sure the set is pretty much final (in any design aspects) before I look into this more though. Expect this to take time. The main reason for wanting to find a larger platform to sell the set through is to reduce prices.

I would like to avoid giving estimates on how much the set will be for now, though, since I am sure they would be inaccurate (considering the design has not been completely finalized). I will have another interest form to get a better gauge of this closer to finalization of the set. Sorry for such a vague response!

I'm actually really interested in this.

Are you 100% set on using katakana for the alphas?

I would rather have hiragana, similar to how Japanese keyboards have it. Do you think you could do a mockup for it?

I thought of this too, and I am fond of the idea as well. Sure, I'll do a mockup for it - might take a while though. I will probably have another feedback form up after this and any other possible changes to finalize the design.
« Last Edit: Thu, 28 May 2015, 20:43:47 by Nostril »
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Offline Nostril

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Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu - Updated Colors
« Reply #42 on: Fri, 29 May 2015, 22:45:55 »
Here's a mockup of the Hiragana:




Here's another mockup of the Katakana. I cleaned up how the characters look and did some research so that it should work fully with actual kana input:


I think I do still like the look of katakana more, but again, I will leave this up to a second poll.
« Last Edit: Fri, 29 May 2015, 22:47:42 by Nostril »
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Offline ceflame

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Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu - Updated Colors
« Reply #43 on: Sat, 30 May 2015, 00:03:46 »
Here's a mockup of the Hiragana:

Show Image



Here's another mockup of the Katakana. I cleaned up how the characters look and did some research so that it should work fully with actual kana input:
Show Image


I think I do still like the look of katakana more, but again, I will leave this up to a second poll.

I really like the Hiragana mockup.
Katakana just feels really weird to read as a whole.. so I guess I might be a bit biased compared to those that can't read it.

I'm just sad that the set ended up as DSA since I wanted to move away from that profile, but I think in the end this design would look nicest as pbt dye-subbed DSA, especially with the rising sun graphic.

Also not a huge fan of the off-colored esc key as part of the base set, just feels really awkward for me.

Offline simonyunhe

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Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu - Updated Colors
« Reply #44 on: Sun, 31 May 2015, 11:23:41 »
Really like the mod, simple and easy to read. The f1-12 key not that good for me, how about try letter like 一, 二, 三, 四, 五...
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Offline NeonBacon

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Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu - Updated Colors
« Reply #45 on: Sun, 31 May 2015, 17:50:01 »
I like it, though I'd have preferred it to have hiragana and maybe a different profile.

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Offline Nostril

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Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu - Updated Colors
« Reply #46 on: Sun, 31 May 2015, 22:18:46 »
Here is another feedback form to help me finalize the design. Please fill this out if you are interested in this set! This form is nice and short.

http://goo.gl/forms/PxUVuei99F
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Offline livingspeedbump

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Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu
« Reply #47 on: Sun, 31 May 2015, 22:39:48 »
I really like the design, but absolutely despise DSA. I would love to see it tweaked some with the colors to make it workable as a dyesublmiation set... which would be a LOT cheaper too since there would be no need to have custom tooling made. The navy on red is possible, but it would need to be switch to red on beige for the main keys since red on navy wouldn't be possible with dyesub. Could put it on Cherry profile then too.

Who can manufacture actual Cherry profile caps?  GMK of course, and JTK now which is great.
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Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu - Second Feedback form up!
« Reply #48 on: Sun, 31 May 2015, 22:46:00 »
When it comes to child deals feel free to copy any of the Jukebox ones. Nothing groundbreaking there by any means, but I tried to get them at a good price point and concentrate on ones that had interest. Wilba was a huge help to me on those, he and Engicoder both have very good eyes in terms of what to include for child deals.

I wouldn't worry about child deals too much at first though, it would just be a hassle to do more renders every time you changed something. I think the set in general has really started to look exceptional though. Nice to see you taking advice from the community as well  :thumb:
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Offline Findecanor

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Re: [IC] [Keyset] Otaku Keyboardu - Second Feedback form up!
« Reply #49 on: Mon, 01 June 2015, 02:58:50 »
Interesting.. That is the first time I have seen Katakana legends on a keyboard. I know that each Katakana glyph has a direct corresponding glyph in Hiragana. Is the Katakana layout corresponding to the layout of Hiragana on a regular Japanese keyboard?

BTW, "Otaku" was slang for blank keyboards for a little while. The use faded.
BTW 2. I am a little surprised that nobody from an Asian country other than Japan hasn't complained about the use of the Japanese Naval flag. There is a lot of hatred towards it because it represents Japanese occupation and oppression during WWII.
« Last Edit: Mon, 01 June 2015, 03:17:36 by Findecanor »
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