Topre questions

[asgeirtj]

Hi guys!

Alright so I've tried my fair share of MX and I am getting curious how far the rabbit hole goes and want to try out topre.  I've tried all the popular MX switches and by what I've read and tried I don't think there is anything better for me in MX than 62g lubed clears.  However I want to try topre, but I have these questions:

1.  I really think that the 4mm of cherry mx is too long of a travel distance.  I use 1.2mm o-rings with cherry profile caps and that's the perfect travel distance for me.  However I gather that Topre's travel distance is 4mm AND that modding it away is not feasible as it takes away from the experience as it was intended to be by the manufacturer.  HOWEVER it seems to me that not all travel distance was created equal since from all the rubber domes I've used in the past I never found the travel distance too long, so maybe it feels different between RD and mech?

2.  Concerning actuation force.  I'm deciding between 45g and 55g (from what I've read it seems that 45g is the way to go for me but I'd be interested to hear you guys's take on this).  This is my experience with MX actuation force (which might be weird!): between red, blue, brown and 62g clears,  I find red the hardest to press, then blue, then brown and then 62g clears.  This might be weird but I find that as the switch is more linear it's more of a strain to press.  Stock red feel very laborious to me !  I even tried 50g reds but I still found it too heavy.  After trying clears the browns just feel like slightly better reds, but I can feel the redness in them after I tried clears. Stock browns are ok in actuation force me, perhaps just right, but still laborious after I tried clears.  Stock blues feel too heavy too me.  Which lets us arrive at clears which are lighter to me in comparison to the others when it has the same spring weight.  I've tried various weights with clears and found that 62g is just perfect for me in a typing board (55g for gaming, 58,5g might be better but I haven't gotten my hand on that weight yet).  65g however is absolutely too heavy!  EDIT: plus I have a lenovo RD at work which I think is a tad too heavy.

So now I ask, from all this information,  what do you guys think I'll like better, 45g or 55g.

3.  I'm pretty sure that non uniform weighting is just some bs which I can pass on thinking about all together.  According to polls here nobody rates it as their favorite topre switch, and people talk about that they sometimes accidentally press aaaaaa when resting their fingers, and that topre under 45g feels mushy.  If I'm wrong here please correct me

I don't like mini layout so the HKKB is out of the picture for me.  I'm mainly looking at the realforce since it's supposed to be of higher quality than the type heaven and elitekeyboards is out of stock on that anyway.  So my choice is basically between the 45 or 55g on EK. 

[rowdy]

1. You can do a silence mod with conventional sliders which involves putting a dental band (teeny tiny rubber band) on the slider.  This stops it from going all the way up, and slightly reduces the amount of vertical motion.  But you do lose the upward "thock".

2. 45g.

3. Non-uniform is great if you spend all day touch-typing, and terrible for anything else.

[Ludovician]

You may also consider the Novatouch, especially if you intend to silent-mod it (reduces the travel distance a bit and gets rid of the upstroke clack).

Personally I prefer 55g Topre over 45g, but that is pure personal preference and has no bearing on your situation.

[asgeirtj]

1. You can do a silence mod with conventional sliders which involves putting a dental band (teeny tiny rubber band) on the slider.  This stops it from going all the way up, and slightly reduces the amount of vertical motion.  But you do lose the upward "thock".

2. 45g.

3. Non-uniform is great if you spend all day touch-typing, and terrible for anything else.

But isn't the thock the thing people keep raving about?  Has anyone done this mod because he wants to shorten travel distance?

[jerue]

1. You can do a silence mod with conventional sliders which involves putting a dental band (teeny tiny rubber band) on the slider.  This stops it from going all the way up, and slightly reduces the amount of vertical motion.  But you do lose the upward "thock".

2. 45g.

3. Non-uniform is great if you spend all day touch-typing, and terrible for anything else.

But isn't the thock the thing people keep raving about?  Has anyone done this mod because he wants to shorten travel distance?

Typically, most of the "feels" come from depressing the switch. When it goes upwards, it makes a fair bit of noise (which I enjoy), but some don't. Basically, it's almost the same "thock" feeling with a lot less noise.

I'll also vouch for a 45g uniform layout board. I personally prefer 55g, but also like heavy switches like Tactile Greys, Buckling Spring, etc.

[prennis]

You might want to check out my thread on the 55g: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=72431.0

I wasn't sure whether to choose 45g or 55g. I went with 55g, and I'm really happy with it. All of the Cherry MX 45g switches are too light for me, and I suspect that Topre 45g would have been too light as well.

[derb2k2]

1. You can do a silence mod with conventional sliders which involves putting a dental band (teeny tiny rubber band) on the slider.  This stops it from going all the way up, and slightly reduces the amount of vertical motion.  But you do lose the upward "thock".

2. 45g.

3. Non-uniform is great if you spend all day touch-typing, and terrible for anything else.

But isn't the thock the thing people keep raving about?  Has anyone done this mod because he wants to shorten travel distance?

There is no upstroke 'thock' as far as I know. There is a thock on the way down as the pcb is hit. The dental band mod silences the upstroke 'clack' which can be loud and annoying.

[asgeirtj]

What keycap profile does the realforce have?  Is it more of a cherry profile or oem?  Really looks like the E row is quite sharply inclined like the dcs caps from sp, which I don't like..

[Oobly]

Downwards they "thock", upwards they "whack".

The silencing mod with anything thicker than Spicebar's flattened pads reduces the travel and also changes the feel, reducing the tactility somewhat by partly compressing / prestressing the rubber domes.

There is some similarity in feel between 55g Topre and 62g ErgoClears, with both having high tactility and similar pressure points, but ultimately you can't judge which Topre switch you'd prefer from your MX preferences IMHO. The type of mounting, case material, manufacturer, etc change the feel of Topres significantly. My favourite happens to be the Leopold FC660C which has 45g domes and metal plate mounted sliders. My favourite MX switch is plate mounted 62g ErgoClears, particularly trampoline and latex modded, worn in, lubed ones with stickers in a metal case. And I prefer those a lot more than even the FC660C Topre switches in terms of feel. They're just so tactile, consistent and have just the right amount of force after the tactile bump and actuation point for me.

[chive_]

1. Use dental bands. This will silence the upstroke noise.

2. Both are good. A lot of long-time Topre users claim 55g is the way to go, but if you like a lighter switch, go with 45g. Either way, you'll be happy with it.

3. Uniform is the way to go.

The huge downside to Topre is that you have to try it to figure out what you like, since it's so different from any mechanical switch on the market. Luckily, selling a Topre board for close to what they cost new isn't difficult, so it's worth trying it.

[Bucake]

i touch-type and i do not dig variable at all. (so don't go thinking that variable is for you, just because you touch-type. it's really just preference.)
and since i play (fps) games, the variable is something i will never get used to. (think WASD with different weighting - yuk.)

the travel distance 'feel' different to me (topre vs cherry). (i suppose because of how tactile topre is compared to cherry?)
i agree with you that 4mm is quite alot on cherries, but i actually don't feel the same way about the travel distance on topres.

45g or 55g is a hard one for me: i actually prefer the feel of 55g, but they do cause me some fatigue (probably because i am 'too' used to lighter switches like 45g topre and cherry reds).
i wish there were 52g or 53g domes :-)

the EK edition has prettier legends ;p if you care about aesthetics, then you might want to take a look at the differences.

i would stay away from variable. not necessarily because i don't like it, but because the difference in domes between keys is too big.
if i'd type QWERT; the jump in grams needed goes up by too much, between each key. it just doesn't feel right and the differences should've been more subtle.

can't really recommend 45g or 55g because it depends on preference too much.
i'd just take a guess, based on your experiences. for example if you much prefer cherry blacks over cherry reds, then i think 55g would be the safer bet.

also note that (apparently) the black realforce keyboards have more texture to the keys, compared to the white-grey versions.

[asgeirtj]

i touch-type and i do not dig variable at all. (so don't go thinking that variable is for you, just because you touch-type. it's really just preference.)
and since i play (fps) games, the variable is something i will never get used to. (think WASD with different weighting - yuk.)

the travel distance 'feel' different to me (topre vs cherry). (i suppose because of how tactile topre is compared to cherry?)
i agree with you that 4mm is quite alot on cherries, but i actually don't feel the same way about the travel distance on topres.

45g or 55g is a hard one for me: i actually prefer the feel of 55g, but they do cause me some fatigue (probably because i am 'too' used to lighter switches like 45g topre and cherry reds).
i wish there were 52g or 53g domes :-)

the EK edition has prettier legends ;p if you care about aesthetics, then you might want to take a look at the differences.

i would stay away from variable. not necessarily because i don't like it, but because the difference in domes between keys is too big.
if i'd type QWERT; the jump in grams needed goes up by too much, between each key. it just doesn't feel right and the differences should've been more subtle.

can't really recommend 45g or 55g because it depends on preference too much.
i'd just take a guess, based on your experiences. for example if you much prefer cherry blacks over cherry reds, then i think 55g would be the safer bet.

also note that (apparently) the black realforce keyboards have more texture to the keys, compared to the white-grey versions.

What do you mean by EK edition?  If the black one is grainier that's better because I like texture on my caps  

[Air tree]

i touch-type and i do not dig variable at all. (so don't go thinking that variable is for you, just because you touch-type. it's really just preference.)
and since i play (fps) games, the variable is something i will never get used to. (think WASD with different weighting - yuk.)

the travel distance 'feel' different to me (topre vs cherry). (i suppose because of how tactile topre is compared to cherry?)
i agree with you that 4mm is quite alot on cherries, but i actually don't feel the same way about the travel distance on topres.

45g or 55g is a hard one for me: i actually prefer the feel of 55g, but they do cause me some fatigue (probably because i am 'too' used to lighter switches like 45g topre and cherry reds).
i wish there were 52g or 53g domes :-)

the EK edition has prettier legends ;p if you care about aesthetics, then you might want to take a look at the differences.

i would stay away from variable. not necessarily because i don't like it, but because the difference in domes between keys is too big.
if i'd type QWERT; the jump in grams needed goes up by too much, between each key. it just doesn't feel right and the differences should've been more subtle.

can't really recommend 45g or 55g because it depends on preference too much.
i'd just take a guess, based on your experiences. for example if you much prefer cherry blacks over cherry reds, then i think 55g would be the safer bet.

also note that (apparently) the black realforce keyboards have more texture to the keys, compared to the white-grey versions.

What do you mean by EK edition?  If the black one is grainier that's better because I like texture on my caps

The quality of the legends (The printing) is higher quality and nicer on the EK edition.

[Polymer]

Based on what you've said I'd suggest 45g Topre...

As far as variable vs. uniform...

Variable is great if you touch type ("proper" form).  I think variable absolutely sucks for gaming and I'd imagine if you didn't use proper or semi proper form, it would really suck as well...but if you do use proper form, the lighter pinkie key finger keys make absolute sense..they are the easiest on your hands by far.  I switch back and forth to uniform Topre and Cherry from a variable and I can definitely feel the difference in my hands...it is like they're working a lot harder (although you do get used to it). 

You won't want to reduce the travel on Topre...you'll want to hit bottom (that's where all of the enjoyment comes from) and if you add something so they're already partially depressed, you'll lose a ton of tactility...

[steve.v]

1. Travel feel is different than cherry mx.

2. If you type a lot, go 45g.

3. It's all preference.