Author Topic: Ione Scorpius M10 build quality (Read 11429 times)

mike2h · « **on:** Thu, 24 September 2009, 17:41:05 »

is the build quality(specifically the solder work) still poor on this kb or has it improved with newer runs?

cmr · « **Reply #1 on:** Thu, 24 September 2009, 17:45:29 »

lag time on the first problems is a few months, so we probably don't know yet

rdjack21 · « **Reply #2 on:** Thu, 24 September 2009, 20:57:34 »

For the price they are not a bad board. True you may have to break out the soldering iron and do some touch up work every now and then but really that is all you have to do.

As to the quality of newer runs who knows. Until someone gets one and opens it up and takes some close up pictures we will not know.

mike2h · « **Reply #3 on:** Thu, 24 September 2009, 21:01:29 »

thx guys, kinda what i was worried about. if it was for me, it would be no problem, but i dont like things going wrong with my wifes rig for various reasons & having a semi regular problem with her kb is not going to cut it.
shame to, for the price it seems a fairly good buy.

timw4mail · « **Reply #4 on:** Thu, 24 September 2009, 21:25:50 »

From what I understand, it takes a good beating on the keyboard to make any problems evident anyway.

I've had mine for about 6 months, and I've had no problems with it.

When I opened mine, I though the soldering was neat, I don't know if it was well done or not, but it is at least neat.

wellington1869 · « **Reply #5 on:** Thu, 24 September 2009, 21:27:44 »

Quote from: mike2h;120411

thx guys, kinda what i was worried about. if it was for me, it would be no problem, but i dont like things going wrong with my wifes rig for various reasons & having a semi regular problem with her kb is not going to cut it.
shame to, for the price it seems a fairly good buy.

It is a good buy. I had one, and despite not having picture perfect soldering it worked just fine and was a joy to use (as far as blue cherries go anyway). It seemed as solidly made as the Das I bought.

I dont know what flux marks on the board really would do. They werent completely horrible, just not as neat as, say, a topre. I figure if it lasts three weeks its good to go. They do have a return policy.

rdjack21 · « **Reply #6 on:** Thu, 24 September 2009, 21:28:07 »

Oh I think we can all agree that we don't want problems with the wife's system. Especially if it is the keyboard that is the problem. If it is for her get a Filco so you don't have to worry about it.

rdjack21 · « **Reply #7 on:** Thu, 24 September 2009, 21:35:34 »

Just an update to comment on what others have said. Of the two I had (since sold both of them) only one of them had a switch quit working. It was one of the arrow keys and I was banging on it at the time. As far as the flux residue goes that will not cause issues. The issues is the incomplete or improperly formed solder joints. Under normal usage they should hold up. But when you start banging on the keys that causes more stress on the solder joint than the shoddy solder job can take. If she is not into games and does not bang on the board then it should be fine. Besides if it does happen to get a key that does not work they are easy to fix if you have a soldering iron and know how to use it.

mike2h · « **Reply #8 on:** Fri, 25 September 2009, 01:00:01 »

if i can get shipped here for$60 or under i think i will give it a shot. i can see what blue cherries are like & it should last long enough(assuming it has problems) for me to save some more money & get a filco.
of course if that unfortunate event does happen im sure id have to get her the filco with browns....

be worth the little bit of complaining id get about wasting $$ lol.
you guys are corrupting me.

cmr · « **Reply #9 on:** Fri, 25 September 2009, 01:17:26 »

the parts with nasty blobs aren't the parts that fail on mine. it's a section where the solder is too light, from nm,. down to the arrow key block.

maxlugar · « **Reply #10 on:** Fri, 25 September 2009, 02:07:01 »

Quote from: wellington1869;120422

It seemed as solidly made as the Das I bought.
QUOTE]

The comparison to the Das as "solidly made" is not the least bit reassuring

itlnstln · « **Reply #11 on:** Fri, 25 September 2009, 08:07:11 »

Quote from: maxlugar;120465

Quote from: wellington1869;120422
It seemed as solidly made as the Das I bought.
QUOTE]

The comparison to the Das as "solidly made" is not the least bit reassuring

The Das I and II were solidly-made (Keytronic and Cherry, respectively). It's the III that sucks (Costar).

mech · « **Reply #12 on:** Fri, 25 September 2009, 14:35:52 »

Quote from: itlnstln;120488

The Das I and II were solidly-made (Keytronic and Cherry, respectively). It's the III that sucks (Costar).

Yeah. IIRC, the original Das was a rubber dome keyboard though. In fact, I believe the same model from Keytronic (with labels) was one of those craptastic $15 or $20 keyboards that we love to hate, resold as a blank KB for a mere $100. When Metadot revised the Das, changing to mechanical switches, I jumped. Had I been a reader of this board, I probably would have a Filco or something.

rdjack21 · « **Reply #13 on:** Fri, 25 September 2009, 15:25:46 »

Keytronic makes some of the better rubber dome boards on the market. The biggest problem with rubber dome boards is that you have to bottom them out for a keystroke to register. I sometimes wish they would invest some money in capacitive switches and start making those again to eliminate the bottom out issue.

mike2h · « **Reply #14 on:** Fri, 25 September 2009, 15:50:06 »

Quote from: rdjack21;120555

Keytronic makes some of the better rubber dome boards on the market. The biggest problem with rubber dome boards is that you have to bottom them out for a keystroke to register. I sometimes wish they would invest some money in capacitive switches and start making those again to eliminate the bottom out issue.

the problem is exactly what u said- " invest some money". no reason for them to when 99% of the consumers just dont know any better(have knowledge of other options) & a big chunk of them really dont care.

mech · « **Reply #15 on:** Fri, 25 September 2009, 16:11:14 »

The rubber also wears out (gradually - some claim that mechanical switches work pretty much the same up until failure, whereas rubber gradually changes over its life until failure). Topre rates the capacitive switch mechanism at ~30 mil, but the rubber dome at ~10 mil. A keyswitch life of ~10 mil is a good indicator that you're getting a quality rubber dome (vs. some dome keyboards that are rated as low as ~1 mil). Mechanical switches are usually rated 20-50 mil.

How much does it cost to get a new set of rubber domes for the Topre?

cmr · « **Reply #16 on:** Tue, 05 January 2010, 01:04:34 »

i just finished up resoldering the down arrow key on my M10 and the repairs are starting to get a bit nasty. this is the fourth switch that's come unsoldered from the PCB, but at least this time it was only one joint that failed.

unfortunately, the trace had already torn by the time i got the case open. what's worse... the other end of the trace was at least 5 inches away. so i had to scratch off the top layer to expose the trace and jumper from the switch lead over to that. ugh.

i'm sure this won't be the last key to fail, but hopefully things have slowed down...

cdamonsmith · « **Reply #17 on:** Tue, 05 January 2010, 22:48:10 »

I got an M10 over the holidays and love it. For a cheap(er) way to discover blue cherries, it can't be beat.

Hak Foo · « **Reply #18 on:** Tue, 05 January 2010, 23:09:10 »

Quote from: cdamonsmith;148337

I got an M10 over the holidays and love it. For a cheap(er) way to discover blue cherries, it can't be beat.

IMO, you're better off with the G80-3000. It's about 65 bucks delivered (my holiday gift

), so it's basically a push price-wise over the M10, but comes with no questions asked about the build quality.

timw4mail · « **Reply #19 on:** Wed, 06 January 2010, 06:14:03 »

Quote from: Hak Foo;148338

IMO, you're better off with the G80-3000. It's about 65 bucks delivered (my holiday gift ), so it's basically a push price-wise over the M10, but comes with no questions asked about the build quality.

I really think they've improved the Scorpius, and it's easier to find than a G80-3000.

cmr · « **Reply #20 on:** Fri, 08 January 2010, 01:30:39 »

Quote from: timw4mail;148374

I really think they've improved the Scorpius, and it's easier to find than a G80-3000.

i hope so - who around here has one with no failed keys? and how long have you been using it?

ricercar · « **Reply #21 on:** Fri, 08 January 2010, 04:32:36 »

I have Wellington's Scorpius M10 for maybe 2 months and have had no key problems. Seems to be solid.

InSanCen · « **Reply #22 on:** Fri, 08 January 2010, 04:34:15 »

Quote from: cdamonsmith;148337

I got an M10 over the holidays and love it. For a cheap(er) way to discover blue cherries, it can't be beat.

Unless I'm mistaken, a TVS gold would be cheaper, assuming you can get one.

ch_123 · « **Reply #23 on:** Fri, 08 January 2010, 07:24:54 »

Quote from: mech;120565

The rubber also wears out (gradually - some claim that mechanical switches work pretty much the same up until failure, whereas rubber gradually changes over its life until failure). Topre rates the capacitive switch mechanism at ~30 mil, but the rubber dome at ~10 mil. A keyswitch life of ~10 mil is a good indicator that you're getting a quality rubber dome (vs. some dome keyboards that are rated as low as ~1 mil). Mechanical switches are usually rated 20-50 mil.

In it's defense, a mechanical switch will become worn out feeling long before it actually dies, so the effective usable life of the keyboard can be quite less than the life of the switches.

timw4mail · « **Reply #24 on:** Fri, 08 January 2010, 07:38:43 »

Quote from: cmr;149061

i hope so - who around here has one with no failed keys? and how long have you been using it?

I do, and I've had mine since May of '09.

cmr · « **Reply #25 on:** Fri, 08 January 2010, 08:53:55 »

good deal, it sounds like they have finally fixed their soldering. did anyone manage to get one of the backlit ones?

itlnstln · « **Reply #26 on:** Fri, 08 January 2010, 09:35:00 »

Quote from: cmr;149140

good deal, it sounds like they have finally fixed their soldering. did anyone manage to get one of the backlit ones?

That's a good question. There was a decent amount of hype when the backlit one came out, but I don't think anyone has got one yet. It might just a case of vaporware.

cheater1034 · « **Reply #27 on:** Sat, 09 January 2010, 16:09:26 »

I bought an M10 for someone as a christmas gift (which means it should have been a *fixed* model) - from ergogeek

Anyway, a couple weeks after not very heavy usage (started on xmas, then a few days ago) - the 0 key stopped working, but apparently he fixed it and it was pretty easy to do.

But it's a little concerning still

I've had mine over 6 months now without a single problem.

roncore · « **Reply #28 on:** Thu, 18 March 2010, 18:22:07 »

I just got one from Ergogeek on ebay, old version with no logo in right upper corner. Half the keys work half the time, spacebar doesn't work. I emailed him. I figured I would get a newer one if I bought direct, obviously not.

Hubbert · « **Reply #29 on:** Wed, 24 March 2010, 08:45:16 »

I ordered 2 in 2008 from Cyberguys: one for myself and one for a co-worker. I have been using mine for about a year with no problems, and the co-worker didn't complain last time I saw him.

I hope they improve & stay in production.

Otterclock · « **Reply #30 on:** Wed, 24 March 2010, 13:58:12 »

I'm a newbie to this (been lurking for a while before I got the nerve to start posting) but it seems that "You get what you pay for" in the mechanical switch keyboard market doesn't seem to apply so firmly. The $50 ABS M1 looks to have a pretty good reputation for quality, yet the most famous of the premium boards, the Das, has customer reviews that make an $18 "Logitech Standard 350" look like a long term investment.

Sad thing is, I think most premium board makers have little choice but to price high due to supply/demand of a niche market, and a limited source for materials. A handful of relatively large manufacturers like ABS and iOne, both of which have huge product lines outside of keyboards, have more purchasing power with parts distributors, and the ability to pump out lots of boards. Difference between the two looks to be ABS contracting a better facility to do their soldering.

or something along those lines boy I sure like coke zero.

itlnstln · « **Reply #31 on:** Wed, 24 March 2010, 14:08:42 »

The ABS M1 is basically a Filco with XM, ALPS-compatible switches and 2 KRO. It's a good keyboard, to be sure, but the switches were pretty mediocre. The Das has much better switches in the Cherry blues (and browns in the "silent" version), and Metadot has fixed the firmware in the "S" model, thus putting right on par with the Filco as far as all the testing done around here shows. If I had to spend money on one or the other right now, I would pick the Das every day of the week. Keep in mind, too, that the same OEM makes the Das, Filco and ABS. Somehow, though, they were able to bork the firmware on the Das and ABS at one time.

Otterclock · « **Reply #32 on:** Wed, 24 March 2010, 14:33:29 »

Ah, interesting. So, are the switches used in the ABS so much cheaper that it makes the board less than half the price?

Mailman juust arrived with the G80-11900LPMUUS I ordered and as you can see, there seems to be a small issue with the uuuuu key.

itlnstln · « **Reply #33 on:** Wed, 24 March 2010, 14:39:22 »

ALPS-compatible switches seem to be quite a bit cheaper than Cherrys. It also seems that they cut-corners on writing the firmware for the ALPS-compatible-based 'boards, so there might be something there, too.

Otterclock · « **Reply #34 on:** Wed, 24 March 2010, 14:48:02 »

And you uuu would pick the Das? I'm in that 'what's gonna be my first nice board' stage. Why so? I thouguht the Filco ruuled the roost around here. I'm torn on whether or not I could deal with the Das finger smuuudge issue. I'd be cleaning it constantly. ok I'm unpluuggin this thing and switching back to my lenovo uuuuuuuuuu

boy I sure am looking forward to someday getting a fully functioning mechanical switch keyboard.

ricercar · « **Reply #35 on:** Wed, 24 March 2010, 14:48:28 »

Of the two (used) Scorpius boards I've owned, one was perfect and one failed the first week. Guess which one I sold ...

Otterclock · « **Reply #36 on:** Wed, 24 March 2010, 14:52:40 »

I hope it was the perfect one, otherwise that wouldn't be very nice.

Phaedrus2129 · « **Reply #37 on:** Wed, 24 March 2010, 15:00:55 »

Filco did rule the roost, until Das fixed the transposition problems. Now Das beats Filco, though Filco is by no means bad.

elbowglue · « **Reply #38 on:** Wed, 24 March 2010, 15:15:23 »

I vote filco over das.

Per das web site: Das is 18x6.5 inches in size. Filco is 17.3x5.4 inches in size.
Filco +1.

Prior Das models were demonstrated to have controller problems introducing transposition errors. The new release of the Das Model S was then recalled after initial release as there were more problems with it. The newest version seems to have been fixed.
Filco has had no history of such issue as far as I know.

Das has USB ports. Filco does not.
Das +1 if you need usb ports on your keyboard.

Filco comes in non-nkro versions, tenkeyless, otaku, all white white, cherry brown, cherry black, all pink
Das comes in blank, cherry brown, and versions with 2 windows keys.
Filco +1

Das has media keys. Filco dosen't. although it's not hard to write an AHK macro for media keys.
Das +1 if you need media keys.

Das has shiny fingerprint magnety bezel. Filco has almost no bezel.
Filco +1

Filco's retailer elitekeyboards has gotten great reviews here at geekhack.
Das return experience has been somewhat poor here at geekhack.
Filco +1

You make the call.

Oh and otter - if you want to fix the U key, just pop the keycap off, pop the top of the switch off, remove the stem and spring and swap it with another key that you never use such as the sys-request button. This might fix your problem.

hyperlinked · « **Reply #39 on:** Wed, 24 March 2010, 15:29:35 »

Quote from: ricercar;166558

Of the two (used) Scorpius boards I've owned, one was perfect and one failed the first week. Guess which one I sold ...

:becky:

Otterclock · « **Reply #40 on:** Wed, 24 March 2010, 15:33:59 »

I do kinda like the red filco.

ricercar · « **Reply #41 on:** Wed, 24 March 2010, 15:56:38 »

hyperlinked is grinning because he got my perfect Scorpius M10, the one Wellington sold me.

When I decided to give Cherry blues another chance, I learned what the dark side looks like. On my second M10, two keys require re-soldering after less than 40 hours use, and the PCB has residue like rosin and salt on it. However, plate mounted Cherry blues with double shots has become my new mistress (don't tell my browns).

Quote

I do kinda like the red filco.

I've never seen an ordering page for that one. Was it a limited run?

Otterclock · « **Reply #42 on:** Wed, 24 March 2010, 16:23:32 »

Italian Red

There should be a little photo of it under the main photo. I couldnt get a direct link to it expands into a popup window. I think only the 104 key versions offer it.

mrbill · « **Reply #43 on:** Wed, 24 March 2010, 16:38:43 »

Quote from: ricercar;166584

When I decided to give Cherry blues another chance, I learned what the dark side looks like. On my second M10, two keys require re-soldering after less than 40 hours use, and the PCB has residue like rosin and salt on it.

I hate to hear this from someone I did a trade with; I never had any problems with that board (bought new in March-April '09) but agree the looks of the soldering wasn't the best.

If you're unhappy with it let me know and I'll do whatever is needed to make things right.

ricercar · « **Reply #44 on:** Wed, 24 March 2010, 17:34:37 »

No worries mrbill. Fortunately for both of us, I knew exactly what I was potentially getting, I could afford only a trade, and the board I traded was destined for only closet-stuffing here in my house. I'm satisfied, and if your board would ever be delivered, I hope you're pleased with yours, too.

Besides, soldering differently-colored LEDs successfully in a 'disposable' M10 gives me the confidence to solder in a mostly-irreplaceable board, like my eponymous SPOS.

And that's my new opinion of the Scorpius M10. Disposable.

Otterclock · « **Reply #45 on:** Thu, 25 March 2010, 21:34:19 »

The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog. Well all the keys on this replacement work out of the box at least. However, the gray sticker label that covers the num lock/caps lock/scroll lock looks like it was applied by michael j. fox. There's adhesive seeping out along the edge where it's not put on straight, and there's air pockets beneath.

I don't know if I should even waste time asking for a refund over the sticker. These cherry blues are pretty nice, though.

I take that back about Michael J. Fox cuz I actually like that guy but I'm not very happy with iOne. I am very sad.

Quote

Disposable.

cmr · « **Reply #46 on:** Fri, 11 March 2011, 09:14:37 »

It has now been over a year since I have had to resolder any more keyswitches on my M10.

So, for even the ones with the bad solder there is light at the end of the tunnel...

cmr · « **Reply #47 on:** Fri, 11 March 2011, 13:22:10 »

?

Someone at my office ordered one within the past month; they are hardly as rare and odd as something like a TVS Gold.

News:

Author Topic: Ione Scorpius M10 build quality (Read 11429 times)