recommendations to learn alternative layouts? (kinesis contour)

[urlwolf]

I'm not a touch-typer.
I got the kinesis contour, and this keyboard of course has a particular kayout. The main differences are the arrow keys on separated hands, and the thumb delete and modifiers.

Learning all chords (e.g., alt-tab, copy-paste) is challenging.

The first thing that becomes evident is that it's really efficient only when doing touch-typing.

So, once I set out to learn touch-typing, I also decided to invest in the colemak layout.

Most people learn alternative layout "at night" while sticking to QWERTY by day to stay productive. In my case, fast hunt-and-peck QWERTY after 10 yrs programming.

So in my case I'm learning all chords idiosincracies (e.g., alt-tab, copy-paste) plus colemak.

My questions:

• Should I use the kinesis all day long to get the chords etc even though I'm doing hunt and pecking?
• Has anyone tried to do this (kinesis + colemak)? I think DreymaR has...
• Has anyone tried the cold turkey approach?

Any recommendations from anyone who has dealt with the kinesis learning curve?

Thanks

[JBert]

You should be able to remap the Kinesis contour using some reprogram software or procedure built into the Kinesis driver software or the keyboard firmware. Check your manual for more info (I don't have one, I also read about it).
Alternatively, leave it in its Qwerty layout and reconfigure your operating system to use colemak as you usually would with any other keyboard.


I went "cold turkey" on the whole Colemak thing, and similar to you I had a DIY touch typing style.

I must say it doesn't work out that great the first few days - I must confess that I had to swap back to qwerty the first few days because I didn't know where all the keys went. However, I guess that's basically what Shai is saying on the "Learn Colemak" page. The page reads that you should only practice Colemak up to two hours on the first few days, doing more will probably have no increasing effect.

[urlwolf]

Yeah, I don't have any problems with using the OS to get the layout working or remapping at the keyboard level. What I'm interested in is to get prductive as fast as possible. So JBert, you say that cold turkey didn't work so well for you.

I'm also curious on how to schedule lessons in typefaster. Should I jump to next as soon as I get say 15 wpm and 95% accuracy? this kind of stuff. Maybe after I 'graduate' from typefaster, it's time to go cold turkey. I just wonder about the right point to jump in and kick out the training wheels.

Btw, it feels so much more confortable to type that it's not even funny.

[Kraicheck]

I'm also learning Colemak.
The way I go about it is:
1) Use a typing tutor to learn the layout. Keep using qwerty for your daily routine.
2) Once you know the layout, completely switch over.

For the moment I'm in step 2, typing really slowly.

[JBert]

Well, what matters most is accuracy. This number shows how good you are at using the new layout if you don't look down nor look at the typefaster keyboard display (drag Typefaster to the bottom of the screen to hide the keyboard).
If you can get to 95-98% accuracy on all lessons, you can probably practice for speed. First try a slow run, but with as few errors as possible. Then do it fast without looking at errors, just try to keep pushing those keys that feel right. In the third and last run, try to type at a medium pace, keeping errors low but just fast enough that you wouldn't call it slow.
Don't overdo the fast run however, you may have to slow down there if you notice that your accuracy is less than 80-90%.

If you can stay accurate, you will notice you can start to type at some higher speeds as before because errors won't bog you down as much.


Another tip is to start using another typing tutor once you finish the TypeFaster lessons. I started using Klavaro recently, and while the "basic" typing lessons are boring compared to Shai's lessons in TypeFaster, it offers far more material to keep practicing once you can do the basic stuff.

[Rajagra]

I'm also curious on how to schedule lessons in typefaster. Should I jump to next as soon as I get say 15 wpm and 95% accuracy?

I read to just aim for 97-98% accuracy before moving to the next lesson. That worked well for me.

[urlwolf]

One tutor I liked a while ago:
http://ktouch.sourceforge.net/

for linux/maybe OSX only.
If it compiles on KDE 4, it may be available for windows too, as KDE 4 seems to be crossplatform and more complicated apps such as amarok work fine.

wow, 97-98 accuracy before moving to the next lesson? And a limit of 2hr of practice per day? That would mean at least a month before I finish all lessons (just a guess). I do 92% if I'm lucky.

[Rajagra]

I think TypeFaster is based on ktouch.
Many earlier TypeFaster lessons use patterns - even if you don't have a clue where the keys are you can follow the patterns, so it's not so hard to get good accuracy.

[Input Nirvana]

I did exactly the same as you.

I went from not proper typing of Qwerty on conventional boards (nothing ever felt "right" no matter how much I tried), to the Kinesis Contoured, with Colemak, and touch type training. I am using the cold turkey approach, and finding that switching is occurring much faster, though there is a bit more frustration when I'm tired. The thought of only using Colemak a couple hours a day seems silly and prolonging the inevitable. Changes are not smooth, that's why it's called "change". Strive for accuracy then let speed follow. Accuracy is everything, or why bother at all?

For me, Colemak does feel more "right", and the Kinesis Contoured feels right with the keys non-staggered and in a bowl. I also re-mapped the Caps Lock key as Backspace which I like, though I used Caps Lock very often

As a result, typing is far more pleasant and not as unnatural as before. I'm now on a silly kick to cut my Contoured into 2 halves and mount on my chair arms (I hold this forum responsible for enabling me).

[justin]

Cold turkey is the best way to go. I quit QWERTY and moved to Dvorak that way. At first I felt like a totally lost klutz. After three weeks of daily practice (1-2hrs/day), it just clicked. My mind switched layouts, and it became totally natural. From that day forward it felt like I'd been typing Dvorak my entire life, and QWERTY feels downright contorted. You just need to retrain your muscle memory, that's all changing to/from any layout is. It takes time and practice — just make sure you're learning the right one. I hear Colemak is good for programmers, Dvorak is great for writers and people who type english language words most of the time. QWERTY is bad for everyone.

[Rajagra]

I've posted an idea for a bass-ackwards lesson in the Colemak site forum. It's probably not something to try until you're very familiar with the layout, but I think it addresses something that all other typing tutors/lessons leave out.

(It's mainly aimed at kick-starting my speed, which seems to have plateaued at a pitiful figure.)

[ricercar]

Definitely I agree with the cold turkey method. Otherwise you're just prolonging your frustration needlessly.

When I found a $40 Kinesis Contoured, I read the manual and decided to Just Do It, do the switch, despite the warnings "your productivity might drop" (did it ever!) and "don't start learning Kinesis at work during a crunch time (wisdom is ever ignored). I was back up to speed within a fortnight. As a fast (45 wpm) hunt-and-pecker (since 1972) the big things I learned while adapting to the Kinesis:

• My hands had been ever crossing over. The Kinesis layout really forces you to adopt a left hand/right hand mentality.
• My hands now stay in place more. The thumb operated keys are so frequently used (space bar, enter, del, and backspace) that they enforce your hands to stay put instead of wandering.

I find my Kinesis Contour-learned habits are propagating to normal keyboards and there's no befuddlement when I switch back and forth, roughly as work=contoured, home=normal. The only reasons I revert to non-Contour are:

• to play games (nothing like all four arrows under the same hand)
• illuminated keyboard
• no laptops offer contoured

YMMV.

[AndrewZorn]

yes!!! colemak!

cold turkey seemed to have worked for me.  if you cave and switch back to (or even USE for an extended period) qwerty before you have learned colemak, there's a good chance you won't go back.

for learning i used online typing speed tests, but focused on trying to reduce errors.  typing of the dead is great but the bugs of running it on windows 7 combined with the bugs from using a different layout (?) ruin it.

[Rajagra]

typing of the dead is great but the bugs of running it on windows 7 combined with the bugs from using a different layout (?) ruin it.

Do you have a Media Centre Edition type infrared controller by any chance? The driver messes up TOTD. It can be fixed.

[AndrewZorn]

i dont think so... you mean like the infrared dongle that came with the MCE remotes? no.

more talking about the way right shift doesnt work, nor does '

[Rajagra]

i dont think so... you mean like the infrared dongle that came with the MCE remotes? no.

more talking about the way right shift doesnt work, nor does '

That sounds like the same thing. Apostrophe and other keys don't work. It's caused by the "Microsoft eHome MCIR 109 Keyboard" driver, at least it was for me under XP. You can disable it but it tends to reappear on reboot. I changed its driver to be a normal HID Keyboard device and no problems since.

It's certainly an odd bug.

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-102166.html

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_3_console_commands

Microsoft eHome remote/receiver

If you use the Microsoft eHome remote/receiver (official media centre remote and USB receiver) you'll notice under your device manager you have a new device named Microsoft eHome MCIR 109 Keyboard; this is the cause of the tilde key not working. It also affects your plus, minus, parenthesis, hash, @, and slash keys remapping them to different functions. (some are even Kanji characters)

NOTE: Many "ITECIR" (infrared) drivers under the device manager also cause the same issue.

Solution is as follows and will not affect the functionality of your Media Centre remote:

1. Go into Device Manager -> Keyboards.

2. Right-click "Microsoft eHome MCIR 109 Keyboard", choose "Update Driver" ("Update Driver Software" on Vista).

3. Choose "Browse my computer for software" (XP users tell it not to install automatically and say you'll specify the location, then when it asks you where you would like it to search for drivers choose the option to choose from a list) then "Let me pick from a list of device drivers on my computer".

4. Make sure "show compatible hardware" is checked, then select "HID-compliant device" and click next. Click any remaining "OK" or "Finish" buttons after Windows has installed the driver.

[AndrewZorn]

nope, just have 2 HID keyboards and one PS2 keyboard...
man i wanted to see what you were mentioning there though

[urlwolf]

warning: crosspost from colemak forums (geekhack is way more active):

Should one learn colemak for prose first, and once the speed and accuracy is good, move to programming (with all the fancy symbols)?

I'm using colemak on a new kinesis contour, and programming is hell, even remapping all arrow keys to the right. I want to be mildly productive while programming... right now I cannot think . But i'm afraid that if I stop the cold-turkey, I'll never learn the layout properly.

What do you think?

[JBert]

Ah, interesting question.

I actually tried to train on both, but the main problem is that Typefaster doesn't have lessons with programming code.

I would recommend to add a custom lesson to it with practice for the number row and symbol keys. If you don't want to look for it or just want to download it, you can look at Klavaro's "Basic courses". Those typing lessons are a bit boring, but you'll have plenty of practice with all the keys.

I don't know about the arrow keys on a Kinesis Advantage, but I get annoyed when I have to reach for the arrow cluster now. That's why I mapped one of the media keys at the front edge of my work keyboard to an Autohotkey Fn key and press Fn + UNEI to move. I still have to tweak it though as my thumb gets sore from pressing the embedded button.

[urlwolf]

ok! Klavaro lesson 37 on is symbols. I could practice that.
I wonder if there are any studies on how to effectively learn alternative keyboard layouts. Right now all we have are random reports of people all over the web.

More than anything I want to know if there are adverse effects of switching layouts while still learning...

[AndrewZorn]

part of colemak's appeal is how easy it is to learn, how close it is to QWERTY (esp punctuation, which is unchanged)

adverse effects?  slower learning, frustration maybe... i dont think there is anything BAD...

[urlwolf]

Some more learning programs:
typingMarter tracks stats for all apps and prepares taylor-made lessons.
Amphetype great stats, type books instead of nonsense

[Rajagra]

the main problem is that Typefaster doesn't have lessons with programming code.

But it does have lessons for slowest and least accurate keys, which will probably focus on punctuation keys a lot, at least at first.

I find it hard to use Qwerty now, I can't just toggle back to that mode on demand like some people can. I plan to do something about it, maybe set up hotkeys to change the keyboard setting then switch suddenly mid-typing lesson, I think it would take something that drastic to be fluent in two layouts at once.

The switching problem is not so much knowing where each letter is, it's word patterns, the instinctive ability to type whole words as a single action, which is how you get the real speed. Having two instinctive actions for the same word is problematic.

Some more learning programs:
typingMarter tracks stats for all apps and prepares taylor-made lessons.
Amphetype great stats, type books instead of nonsense

I just looked at Amphetype again. The importing of books is better than the description implies, you don't have to generate text fragments, it does it for you automatically. Just what I've been looking for!

[urlwolf]

but how do you go to next paragraph in Amphetype?

[Rajagra]

but how do you go to next paragraph in Amphetype?

In the sources tab, choose "In Order" as "Selection method for new lessons."

As you finish each lesson it moves on to the next part.

[urlwolf]

Well, after typing the first paragraph of 'the metamorphosis', it certainly doesn't move to the next by itself. Maybe a bug in windows server 2008 ?
I have "In Order" as "Selection method for new lessons."

is a lesson a paragraph?

[urlwolf]

I even tried copy-paste. No dice.

[Rajagra]

Ah - maybe press return?

[urlwolf]

nm, didn't realize a black screen means you have an error x_X

[urlwolf]

Amphetype seems to be the ticket for me; I like how it generates lessons on just the key transitions that you to worse.