difference between ibm terminal keyboards

[williamjoseph]

i was wanting to know the difference between the 5250 and 3270 format ibm 122 key terminal keyboard.  Unicomp even offers a "pc/5250". which one would work better within a windows environment? would a programs such as "hotkey" allow me to program the f13-f24 keys?  i have a junk store here in rural missouri that has about 20 of these sitting around. various ones either as IBM's and unicomps with various connectors such as PS2 and AT/DIN.....

[Shawn Stanford]

In other words, unless you want some exotic capacitive switch board I'd just go for a Terminal Emulation keyboard.  A lot easier and you get reliable use of all 122 keys.

Questionable. I had to jump through a couple hoops to get what I would consider 'full' use out of my Boscom 122, including an AHK macro to convert the BackTab key next to the Backspace into an Insert.

The F13-F24 keys register as Shift+F1-Shift+F12. Here's the AHK output from the F1 and F13 keys:

Pressing F1:

70  03B       d   32.53   F1                
70  03B       u   0.06   F1

Press Shift+F1:

A0  02A       d   0.73   Shift          
70  03B       d   0.28   F1                
70  03B       u   0.08   F1                
A0  02A       u   0.23   Shift

Press F13:

A0  02A       d   6.69   Shift          
70  03B       d   0.02   F1                
70  03B       u   0.02   F1                
A0  02A       u   0.00   Shift

Press Shift+F13:

A0  02A       d   2.13   Shift             
70  03B       d   0.20   F1                
70  03B       u   0.02   F1                
A0  02A       u   0.00   Shift             
A2  01D       d   0.88   Ctrl

Press Ctrl+F13:

A0  02A       d   0.25   Shift             
70  03B       d   0.00   F1                
70  03B       u   0.02   F1                
A0  02A       u   0.00   Shift             
A2  01D       u   0.24   Ctrl

Press Alt+F13:

A4  038       d   0.47   Alt               
A0  02A       d   0.31   Shift             
70  03B       d   0.00   F1                
70  03B       u   0.02   F1                
A0  02A       u   0.00   Shift             
A4  038       u   0.16   Alt  

Also, the left-hand keys define in kind of a wierd way:

Code: [Select]


Note: All keys pressed: Unshifted, Shift, Ctrl, Alt

[Esc]         [Pause/Break]
Escape      Pause      
Shift-Esc     Shift-Pause
Ctrl-Esc      Ctrl-Break
Alt-Esc       Alt-Pause

[Clear]       [ErInp]
Pause         Delete      
ShiftPause    Shift-Delete
Ctrl-Break    Ctrl-Delete
Alt-Pause     Alt-Delete

[Print/SysRq] [Help/Hex]
PrtScr        Alt-F1
Shift-PrtScr  Shift-Alt-F1
Ctrl-PrtScr   Ctrl-Alt-F1
Alt-SysReq    Alt-F1

[Apps]        [Play]
Lwin      Alt-F5
Shift-Lwin    Shift-Alt-F5
Ctrl-Lwin     Ctrl-Alt-F5
Alt_Lwin      Alt-F5

[Start]       [Record/Pause]
Application   Alt-F3
Shift-Appl    Shift-Alt-F3
Ctrl-Appl     Ctrl-Alt-F3
Alt-Appl      Alt-F3


[Shawn Stanford]

i was wanting to know the difference between the 5250 and 3270 format ibm 122 key terminal keyboard.  Unicomp even offers a "pc/5250". which one would work better within a windows environment? would a programs such as "hotkey" allow me to program the f13-f24 keys?  i have a junk store here in rural missouri that has about 20 of these sitting around. various ones either as IBM's and unicomps with various connectors such as PS2 and AT/DIN.....

If you can get a good price on them, it might be worthwhile to snap them up and offer them for sale here. Over the last couple months, I think folks on this forum have purchased a dozen of them or more, in various flavors.

[Shawn Stanford]

When I get a chance I'll fire up Autohotkey and try remapping and the SHF/CTRL/ALT sequences although I doubt I'd ever use those.

It can be done, but you have to be tricksy. For instance, if you wanted to define F13 for something and still be able to use Shift+F1, you have to tell AHK to check the elapsed time between the Shift down and the F1 down. The keyboard signal will be far faster than you could ever manage, allowing AHK to sense this and send a different key for F13 than for Shift+F1.

This is how I remapped Backtab - which came in as Shift+Tab - to Insert on my Boscom.

[quadibloc]

I suspect the PC/5250 is the same as the Boscom terminal emulation board or the Model M 122key I just posted in the Pics thread.

There used to be a PDF about that keyboard on the Unicomp site. It's designed to be a regular PC keyboard, with the extra keys acting as shifted keys as are used with IBM's Client Access/400 software to allow someone with a normal PC keyboard to communicate with a system on which a 122-key keyboard would be useful.

It may well be the same as, or similar to, the keyboard now offered here:

http://www.10zig.com/122-keyboard.html

[kishy]

Just to throw it in here, based on the kbdbabel project providing one set of assembly code + documentation for all of the following models, it's safe to say all terminals of the following types use functionally identical keyboards.

IBM:

• 3151-3153
• 3179
• 318x
• 319x
• 34xx

Which by the way Shawn means your 122-key with an RJ45 from me can be converted, since the terminal it's for is a 3488-V.

[Shawn Stanford]

Well, when it gets here, I'm planning on diving into it.

[Shawn Stanford]

The IBM Terminal Emulation keyboards act differently than the Boscoms.

I think that's because the Boscoms are driverless.

[Shawn Stanford]

Interesting. Unicomp must have made some changes after they picked up the biz.

[quadibloc]

Interesting. Unicomp must have made some changes after they picked up the biz.

Both Unicomp emulation keyboards are 'driverless', it's just that one is more driverless than the other.

One of their keyboards is the same as the IBM Host Connected Keyboard. It is designed to connect normally to a PC, but the extra keys will have scan codes ignored by normal PC software.

Their other keyboard, the PC/5250, is (at least close to) the one also sold by BOSCOM, which has recently changed its name. It is even more well-behaved on a PC running in Windows. The extra keys will send key combinations for an IBM terminal emulation program, and nothing will ever be sent that isn't a normal 101-key keyboard scan code.

[Shawn Stanford]

Well behaved = Boring...

[itlnstln]

Well behaved = Boring...

Boring = Productive.  I like boring.

[quadibloc]

Sounds like the IBM Host Connected keyboard is the one I have.  Do you have any other info on these??  Is the 1397000 the only Model M that acts like this? (the european 1397003 appears to work just like the Boscom).

What I know is that IBM made a 122-key keyboard for connection to a PC, and it basically used only Scan Code 3 scancodes, a lot like the terminal keyboards that some people had converted, but AFAIK because it was made for PC use, it had a proper PS/2 connector, and was well-behaved as regards make and break codes by default.

It would work without a driver, but it would basically look like an AT keyboard, with the keys on the left being F1 through F10.

[quadibloc]

Boring = Productive.  I like boring.

In general, I agree. With respect to a 122-key keyboard, though, I'm not going to buy a new keyboard so that I can send shift-F1 with one key - but I might by a new keyboard to send scan codes I could not otherwise generate on a keyboard.

And if you're using a 122-key keyboard for work, there are a couple of oddities in the PC/5250 layout; it does not use the Client Access/400 key mappings in such a way as to precisely mimic a regular 122-key keyboard.

[quadibloc]

I'm having a hard time finding much info on my board though.  May be real tough to find.

The good news, though, is that while this kind of keyboard wasn't terribly common (my Memorex keyboard, although rubber dome and not buckling spring, does what yours does) it is available from Unicomp.

They have three choices: Emulator, Terminal, PC/5250. What you have is the style they sell as "Emulator". Then select either 5250 Format or 3270 format for the layout, U.S. English for the language, PS2/Mini-Din for the Cable, and Buckling Spring - Pearl White for the key switch - although Buckling Spring - Black Metallic is perfectly fine too.

[Shawn Stanford]

I'd be happy to just pick up the circuit board for one at a reasonable price from Unicomp.