Keycap tactility; typos, speed?

[mech]

Do you feel that the way the surface of the keycap feels affects your typing ability?  I have noticed on my Das II that the keycaps have become smooth and somewhat slippery.  I feel that this leads to making typos now and then.

• How do the keycaps of your current board feel?
• How well have/will they last?
• Ceteris paribus, do you feel it makes a statistically significant difference in your typing?
  

Anyone have a favorite board/maker for terms of keycap feel?

[maxlugar]

Do you feel that the way the surface of the keycap feels affects your typing ability?  I have noticed on my Das II that the keycaps have become smooth and somewhat slippery.  I feel that this leads to making typos now and then.

• How do the keycaps of your current board feel?
• How well have/will they last?
• Ceteris paribus, do you feel it makes a statistically significant difference in your typing?
  

Anyone have a favorite board/maker for terms of keycap feel?

I tried the Das for a few days and returned it becasue I liked neither the  gloss finish nor the cheap overall build quality of the PCB mounted key switches. I didn't particularly care for the feel of the key caps either.

The feel of the keycaps on the 84-key PC AT keyboard is unremarkable except for the bold printing that seems likely to last forever.  I'm pretty sure the 84-key Model F uses dye sublimation, not double-shot injection molding.

My current favourite keyboards are the HHKB Pro 2 with gray on gray keys and my Filco FKB104MC/EB with Cherry MX Blue key switches.  The HHKB Pro 2 has a slight edge over my Topre Realforce 87U in key feel, even though I think the key caps are exactly same.  The key cap texture is molded into the plastic and I believe the lettering is applied using dye sublimation.  Both the HHKB and Topre are pure joy to type on.  I can't avoid bottoming out because of my heavy typing style, but the landing is soft and refined.  I can really fly on these keyboards and the keys never feel slippery.

The Filco FKB104MC/EB is another excellent keyboard with significantly better build quality than the Das.  Costar is the contract manufacturer for both the Filco and the Das, but the Filco key switches are mounted on a metal plate and and there is no case flex when typing hard.  Diatec also coats the Filco Majestouch boards with a matte finish texture coating which helps provide traction for your fingers and reduces fingerprints and smudges.  The Filco key caps are not equal to the Topre key caps in overall quality, but they are better than most. At $129, the Filco is not cheap, but it's about half the price of the HHKB or Realforce 87U.

I like the Topre key switches so much, I bought two of the Realforce 23UB number pads (which each cost as much as the Filco keyboard).  I spend many hours each day working with numbers, and it wasn't hard to rationalize the need for Realforce numeric keypads to match my Topre key switch keyboards.  I even got red escape key caps for my HHKB and the two Realforce 23UB number pads. (an indicator of obsessive-compulsive disorder or a geekhack or maybe they are one in the same  :loco: )

So with this long verbose post, the answer to your question from my perspective is yes, key caps are important and have a big impact on the typing experience.  I think most people would prefer key caps with some degree of texture vs. smooth & glossy.  It is very unlikely that I will ever wear out the key caps on my 84-key PC AT keyboards, the HHKB Pro 2 or the Realforce 87U.  The Filco key caps will take some time to wear out, but after the coating wears off, I'm sure the lettering will eventualy wear off also.

[roaduck]

Do you feel that the way the surface of the keycap feels affects your typing ability?  I have noticed on my Das II that the keycaps have become smooth and somewhat slippery.  I feel that this leads to making typos now and then.

• How do the keycaps of your current board feel?
• How well have/will they last?
• Ceteris paribus, do you feel it makes a statistically significant difference in your typing?
  

Anyone have a favorite board/maker for terms of keycap feel?

I am a recent convert to BS and I am not expert on 'boards but this old
IBM just feels "right" to me full stop.

I have only had my model M, an IBM 1391406 102 key for a week and I already adore it.This is my first decent electro-mechanically switched kb.

I've noticed that the keys are not glossy or perfectly matt either, for a
good balance between finger purchase and stain/sweat resistance.

The key caps have tiny dimples on their top surface which, for me is ideal.
I wouldn't call myself a typist as I mainly type one-handed with one finger
with the other hand holding a vodka or a cigarette! But, nethertheless I can have runs and flourishes of speed of perhaps 35+ wpm when I'm on form.

The pressure of the keystroke is just right for me at 60-70 gm or whatever.
If anything, I would like even stiffer key action like on an AT or F board as
I am heavy-handed and find that I "bottom-out" perhaps 25% of the time
or 100% if I'm in a ratty mood.

I also have severely caloused hands so I can't feel the dimple on the "F" key
for instance.

[timw4mail]

In terms of general durability and quality, I think Cherry tends to stand out, as they still have a lot of keyboards with lasered, and double-shot molded keycaps.

Of all the keys I have, the ones from my Scorpius M10 probably feel the best, but also probably wear the worst.

I think the worst are the keys on the Dell AT101W...they don't have clear legends and seem too sticky.

I also really like the feel of the more indented f and j keys over the traditional nubs.

Lets see, thick keys tend to have more of a solid feel, and a lower, more enjoyable pitch, however, thinner keys tend to have more direct tactility from the key-switch. Thicker keys also wear better.

And then there are the different types of plastic for keycaps...I won't even go there.

[itlnstln]

Filco:
-Nice when new, OK when worn (they just look ugly).
-2, maybe 3 weeks, tops
-No difference either way
 
Cherry:
-Slippery, but it doesn't seem to bother me, though.
-Forever
-I type faster and more accurately on my Cherry than my Filco, but I don't think it really has anything to do with the key caps.  It's more overall 'board design.

[mech]

Interesting responses so far.  I think I'm far more accurate on my BS.  It's hard to do an apples-to-apples since the key mechanism is so different, but I swear that some of the typos I make on my Das II are from slipping fingers. Especially when reaching.

Anybody who has a Deck want to comment on the feel of the keycaps?

[hyperlinked]

I doubt that wear on the keycaps themselves affected me much if at all, but they might be an indicator of overall wear on the keyboard itself. It's safe to say that by the time your keys become shiny nothing is quite as crisp as it once was.

I'm for some people whether because they're a bit OCD or they type so f'in fast that any little anomaly throws them off enough mentally that it could be an issue, but I'd be surprised if it's a problem for most people.

[shortround]

I'm actually slightly faster on the cheap rubber dome I use at work because I work with latex gloves on all the time, and this helps eliminate any fingertip slipping whilst I'm typing.  This extra grip increases confidence I think.  For some reason that thing is also the best rubber dome I've ever typed on...  The other keyboards in our department are terrible however.  

So anyway, although I love my Filco at home, because of keycap grip I'm a bit faster and more accurate on the cheapo at work.

[msiegel]

I'm actually slightly faster on the cheap rubber dome I use at work [...] For some reason that thing is also the best rubber dome I've ever typed on...

forgive my heresy, but do you know what model it is?

[shortround]

forgive my heresy, but do you know what model it is?

It's a generic keyboard that comes with WYSE thin clients I think.  The strange thing is, we have 2 of these keyboards, one has really good feel (a bit springy), and the other one is mush.

I think this is the one:

http://www.pcsuperstore.com/products/V36150-Planar_Systems-997434700.html

[msiegel]

how odd... maybe they switched suppliers and you got units from 2 different batches

[shortround]

"Where does he get all those wonderful toys?"

[d4rkst4r]

Anybody who has a Deck want to comment on the feel of the keycaps?

1. The keycaps on the Deck Legend Ice feel like they're made of less brittle plastic than normal keyboards. the top surface is a little narrower than that of a Filco, but about the same level of dip so the curvature of the Deck keys might seem a little more extreme compared to the Filco. They're not smooth, but have some subtle texture.

2. I've only had the Deck for about six weeks, and I don't use it as my main keyboard. The keycaps feel like they will hold up and retain their texture over a long period of time.

3. The keyswitches of the Filco are the main reason I use it on a daily basis instead of the Deck. I'm not a 1337 typist like some GHers, but I feel I can maintain my 85 wpm on the Deck without issues.

Overall, I'd say I don't have a favorite keycap - yet. I need to try more keyboards.

[mech]

I don't know about favorite, but I've at least come across some things I don't like: the frequently used keys on Das II (Cherry G80) have become smooth and slippery.  I'm feeling one of my model Ms right now and there is some slight wear on these, too, but they are much older (a mere 18 years or so), and have not become as slippery.

[mech]

But of course!  In fact, I find it funny how my model M is less worn than my Das II.

[shortround]

1. The keycaps on the Deck Legend Ice feel like they're made of less brittle plastic than normal keyboards. the top surface is a little narrower than that of a Filco, but about the same level of dip so the curvature of the Deck keys might seem a little more extreme compared to the Filco. They're not smooth, but have some subtle texture.

2. I've only had the Deck for about six weeks, and I don't use it as my main keyboard. The keycaps feel like they will hold up and retain their texture over a long period of time.

3. The keyswitches of the Filco are the main reason I use it on a daily basis instead of the Deck. I'm not a 1337 typist like some GHers, but I feel I can maintain my 85 wpm on the Deck without issues.

Overall, I'd say I don't have a favorite keycap - yet. I need to try more keyboards.

I used a deck for a few months and the keycaps stayed a nice matte finish with no slipping.  I'm like you though, I use my filco for the switches, I did not like the cherry blacks on the deck at all.  It felt like the keys came back up too slowly after a key press.  

Hey Ripster, how do the surfaces of the topre realforce caps hold up to long-term use?

[d4rkst4r]

I used a deck for a few months and the keycaps stayed a nice matte finish with no slipping.  I'm like you though, I use my filco for the switches, I did not like the cherry blacks on the deck at all.  It felt like the keys came back up too slowly after a key press.  

I forgot to mention I purchased the Deck tactile with the cherry clear switches. The cherry black switches are linear and not great for typing. The clears are much better, but I still prefer the browns.

[keyb_gr]

I think the subjectively better precision on a Model M has much to do with the keycap shape (though texture also plays in) and general height profile / curvature, plus force being on the higher side. That being said, I also love a vintage Cherry board with partly shiny two-shot keycaps and blues - seemingly effortless typing.

[mech]

I think the subjectively better precision on a Model M has much to do with the keycap shape (though texture also plays in) and general height profile / curvature, plus force being on the higher side. That being said, I also love a vintage Cherry board with partly shiny two-shot keycaps and blues - seemingly effortless typing.

You just blew my mind. :dizzy:

Okay, not really.  But still, finding a keyboard with good switches is a problem in its own right.  To then add key shape, texture, and wear to the mix as variables just makes it impossible.  I wonder how Topre owners would feel if someone took their high-quality, nicely shaped, slot-guided keys and adapted them to a Cherry brown board, for example.

[timw4mail]

Generally, the best way to experience a switch is with the switch manufacturer's keyboards, if possible.

With ALPS, that's not really possible, but I think the Dell AT101W is an ALPS designed keyboard.

Cherry really seems to have good combinations of keys and switches, just not as fancy of build-quality otherwise.

[itlnstln]

Cherry really seems to have good combinations of keys and switches, just not as fancy of build-quality otherwise.

IMO, Cherry 'boards seem to be built from the ground up to be a cohesive unit as unattractive as they might be.  Filcos are nice, and I am sure some of the other Cherry-based 'boards are too, but the Cherry-manufactured 'boards are pure bliss.

[alpslover]

i've noticed that the keys on the blue cherry filco 104 feel and sound a bit different than the keys on the blue cherry tenkeyless.  the tenkeyless keys bottom out with a louder clack and the high pitched metal chattering sound is more pronounced than on the tenkeyful.  the keys themselves feel subtly different - i'm on the 104 now and the texture of the keys feels more apparent.  they also don't seem to reflect light the same way that the ones on the tenkeyless do.  perhaps the 104 doesn't have that 'secret sauce' coating?

unfortunately the two keyboards are in different locations so i can't compare keycaps directly or swap them to see if they are causing the difference in sound.

overall i prefer the sound and feel of the tenkeyless.

[ak_nala]

Generally, the best way to experience a switch is with the switch manufacturer's keyboards, if possible.

With ALPS, that's not really possible, but I think the Dell AT101W is an ALPS designed keyboard.

Don't see why not - Alps Electric did make keyboards under their own name.

In fact I'm using an Alps made, Alps branded Glidepoint ADB keyboard for the Mac right now with tactile Alps switches (haven't popped a key, but pretty sure they're Blacks). Picked it up for $4 at the local recycler.

It isn't bad at all, with quite a good build quality throughout. Keys are nicely textured and have a good feel (but more pronounced than the AEKII's buttery soft satin texture), and despite its age the home keys are only a tiny bit shinier than the others. Very little wear at all. Switches are about on par with an AEKII, with keystrokes harder on the landing of course since no dampers. Oddly, the keys seem to be substantially less wobbly than my AEKII's.

I do really love having a second Delete/Backspace key on the left third of the split Space Bar - wish more keyboards had such. Oh, and with nubs on the D and K keys where they belong

Personally I don't seem to see much difference in speed or accuracy with keys being smooth vs. textured, but do find it a little distracting when some keys are noticeably/significantly different to the touch than others on the same board. The shape of the keys seem to be a much bigger factor.

[alpslover]

I can see that a bigger keyboard may sound/feel subtly different than  a smaller keyboard but I doubt they reserve the "secret  sauce" for just the Tenkeyless.

i find it unlikely that they would 'reserve' the coating as well, but i'm 99% certain that there is some difference between the keycaps.  i won't know until i get them side by side.  i don't believe the sound difference is due to (or only due to) the keyboard size difference, as the das was a full-sized keyboard and its sound was closer to the tenkeyless (just about the same, in fact) than the filco 104 is.

[alpslover]

In fact I'm using an Alps made, Alps branded Glidepoint ADB keyboard for the Mac right now with tactile Alps switches (haven't popped a key, but pretty sure they're Blacks). Picked it up for $4 at the local recycler.

It isn't bad at all, with quite a good build quality throughout. Keys are nicely textured and have a good feel (but more pronounced than the AEKII's buttery soft satin texture), and despite its age the home keys are only a tiny bit shinier than the others. Very little wear at all. Switches are about on par with an AEKII, with keystrokes harder on the landing of course since no dampers. Oddly, the keys seem to be substantially less wobbly than my AEKII's.

i've got a ps/2 alps glidepoint that has soft tactile rubber damped alps switches.  the sliders are white, which just means that alps slider colors aren't really the most accurate way to tell what kind of switch is on the inside.

[patrickgeekhack]

Filco:
-Nice when new, OK when worn (they just look ugly).
-2, maybe 3 weeks, tops
-No difference either way
 
Cherry:
-Slippery, but it doesn't seem to bother me, though.
-Forever
-I type faster and more accurately on my Cherry than my Filco, but I don't think it really has anything to do with the key caps.  It's more overall 'board design.

I type faster on my Cherry as well, even though mine has blue Cherries.  Although at the beginning I did not like the "Teflon" coating feel, I believe that it now makes me typer faster.

That said, while I do think the coating makes a difference for me, it's not the only factor. I don't own two exact keyboard except for the switches. So maybe the switch also plays a part in my case.

[microsoft windows]

To tell you guys the truth, I'm not too picky about key caps on computer keyboards. The one I'm typing on is missing two, including one on the QWERTY pad.

[JBert]

I guess you are talking about a model M (former) two-part cap right?

I wouldn't recommend it on a Cherry keyboard.

[ch_123]

I think they're refering to the single piece keycaps that you find on normal keyboards.

[microsoft windows]

Yes, I was. My Model M is an M5-2 with 2-piece key-caps. I've heard that Unicomp does not use 2-piece keycaps. Is that true?

[msiegel]

according to these pics, nearly all the gray unicomp keys are 1-piece:

http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:5002


not sure about the white/beige models

[ak_nala]

i've got a ps/2 alps glidepoint that has soft tactile rubber damped alps switches.  the sliders are white, which just means that alps slider colors aren't really the most accurate way to tell what kind of switch is on the inside.

I finally opened up my Mac version and yes, it too is rubber dampened tactile Alps with white sliders. Feels pretty much just like an AEK 2. Shame all three touchpad buttons act like a left-click without drivers (which, of course, aren't available for OS X).