Novatouch vs Cherry mx 6.0

[harrywang888]

Hey guys. Both of these keyboards marketed for being the "fastest keyboard" in terms of input lag. Which one is faster and or better for gaming? I'm pretty much getting a novatouch for free but I can sell it for the cherry mx 6.0 if it's somehow better/faster? I play a lot of competitive games (csgo, dota 2, sc2)

Also I never used a topre switch before.  This will be my first one and I'm coming from cherry mx reds which I loved to death. 

[merlin64]

The cherry mx 6.0 is indeed a fast keyboard, but I would be hard pressed to find any human capable of seeing a difference between its advertised latency of key presses to 1.00 ms and a normal keyboard.

What I do appreciate about the cherry mx 6.0 is that it has a nice metal case and comes with a wrist rest. It's got a bunch of cool lighting options, so if you're into that then go for the cherry. However if you really like the feel of topre, then stick with the novatouch.

[skuko]

i just wish they'd make a TKL version of the 6.0

[Elrick]

i just wish they'd make a TKL version of the 6.0

Think the TKL would sell out faster than anything produced by Cherry Corp in the past  .

[Tyrosh22]

I wish they'd make a TKL version of everything.

[jerue]

i just wish they'd make a TKL version of the 6.0

And with something other than MX Reds...mmmmmmm, tasty. 

[MasterBash]

The cherry mx 6.0 is indeed a fast keyboard, but I would be hard pressed to find any human capable of seeing a difference between its advertised latency of key presses to 1.00 ms and a normal keyboard.

What I do appreciate about the cherry mx 6.0 is that it has a nice metal case and comes with a wrist rest. It's got a bunch of cool lighting options, so if you're into that then go for the cherry. However if you really like the feel of topre, then stick with the novatouch.

I am not sure why people keep saying that. Its not about "noticing it". Whether you notice it or not is irrevelant... Its simply faster. The lower the latency, the better, the closer to realtime.

Some people, like me, want to eliminate as much latency as possible. It all adds up..

[merlin64]

Well think about it this way, if you had a Core i7 processor, loads of ram, SSD, GTX 980 video card,  but had a 28 - 56k dial up connection. Downloading the 4 mb mp3 is still going to take minutes. The modem is the bottle neck in this situation. No matter what you upgraded, you probably would not notice a difference in your download speed, unless you finally threw the modem away.

It doesn't matter how fast the keyboard is. The bottleneck in our case is the human being. You can change whatever you want with your keyboard but unless you up your response times, it won't matter. Sure, when playing games a lot more things factor in, but I don't think its in the speed of someone's keyboard.

Someone should look into statistics for human response times to disprove or validate my claims, but I believe all modern keyboards have a speed that is faster than human response rates. Not long ago someone made a little windows application that measured how fast you typed between each key and if I remember correctly, no one got below 45 ms, even among keyboard enthusiasts. A pro gamer might be able to half that.

[merlin64]

Ok look up Takahashi Meijin, he is famous for being able to press a single button 16 times in one second. He's an example from the 80s. We have better buttons and maybe faster people today.

Ok once again, someone check my logic here but....

16 presses in one second would equal 1000 ms / 16 = 62.5 ms between each key press. To make the Cherry MX 6.0 advertised 1 ms worth it, you need to be typing at 1000 key presses a second.

However, no one actually types continuously like that and that's why we need to find that program I mentioned earlier, so we can check the response rate between two key presses.

[jamster]

I am not sure why people keep saying that. Its not about "noticing it". Whether you notice it or not is irrevelant... Its simply faster. The lower the latency, the better, the closer to realtime.

Some people, like me, want to eliminate as much latency as possible. It all adds up..

There are vastly bigger sources of latency to eliminate. In the case of computer input, it's on the human side of things.

Owning a 'fast' keyboard is like owning a home gym set that includes 1000lbs of weights. Those weights might be heavier, but you still can't bench press them. So it's completely irrelevant.

[MasterBash]

That modem analogy doesnt work, because what you are talking about is bandwidth, which is totally irrevelant. It would be like comparing a keyboard plugging in usb 1.1/2.0 to usb 3.0. The bandwidth is not the bottleneck when it comes to response time.

What RK does is this : NO DELAY - The signal is read in realtime at the press of a button.

Which means when you press a button, the key is registered. It is not a human limit at all. This is 1ms key response time which is much faster than 20/25ms response time.

That Takahashi Meijin analogy doesnt work either, because you are talking about someone who can press as many keys as possible in a second to key response time. The response time is irrevelant to the amount of key someone presses in a second. What you are comparing to would be closer to KRO/debounce time. Besides, it doesnt work that way... Someone who presses 16 keys per second doesnt mean he presses a key every 62.5ms . He could be pressing 2 simultaneously and have his next 2 keys with a 100ms delay between them or something like that.

There are vastly bigger sources of latency to eliminate. In the case of computer input, it's on the human side of things.

And all latency that can be eliminated should be eliminated, it doesnt matter the source. Human has nothing to do with the amount of time it takes for the key to register after being pressed down.

You press a key, it registers at 1 ms or you press a key and it takes 20x longer to register. I will take the 1ms anytime. Its faster. You dont have to notice it - its there... It will register at 1ms whether you notice it or not.

Now... The confusing part - Cherry MX website state that keys are registered with a 1ms delay. Which should technically mean between the time it takes to register the key after its being pressed down. I mean, they did go from digital to analog signal processing.
But other websites claim they just reduced debounce time to 1ms... Which does not mean keys are actually registering faster.

Although marketing is strong these days, I prefer the Cherry MX explanation, which would most likely cause the initial pulse to register without additional delay by using analog over digital scanning.

[harrywang888]

What I wanted to know was if I were to press a key on a novatouch or a cherry mx 6.0 at the same speed which one would input faster.  I know there is no way to test this but both of these keyboards are marketed as "fastest keyboard". 

Anyways I did recieved my novatouch yesterday and so far it is terrible for gaming compared to the mx reds I was using before.  Going to be selling this and going back to my old cherry mx reds.  It's amazing for typing though.

[MasterBash]

Few things to take into account...

Novatouch has 1mm to actuation, Cherry MX has 2mm. Technically, if both of them would require the exact same force to reach the actuation point and you were to actually press both with the same force/speed, the novatouch would actuate faster.

As for the key response time, I have no idea when it comes to the novatouch. They make gamer stuff so if it would be that fast they would be all over it when it comes to marketing. I don't own a topre keyboard, but many people claim you cant avoid bottoming out, so that could be a bad thing.

[harrywang888]

Yeah, the fact that you can't bottom out is what makes topre inferior to mx keyboards when it comes to gaming.  Double tapping is very important in a lot of games. 

[Giorgio]

I don't like the novatouch because the keys rattle, and it is much more noisy than a keyboard with cherry switches.

[nubbinator]

> *****ing about latency, still recommending USB keyboard instead of PS/2.

LOL

Yeah, the fact that you can't bottom out is what makes topre inferior to mx keyboards when it comes to gaming.  Double tapping is very important in a lot of games. 

People do well with Blues and they suffer from hysteresis.

I don't like the novatouch because the keys rattle, and it is much more noisy than a keyboard with cherry switches.

That's my main complaint with it.