Keyboards with the least key wobble

[aeoc]

Hello,

As the title suggests, I am after a new keyboard, one with the least amount of key wobble.

The keyboards I have in contemplation (in the order of preference) are the hkkb2, filco blue switches, filco brown, model m and the unicomp customiser.

A keyboard with a solid feel, no wobble and tight keycaps is what I am looking for. Ideally I would like a keyboard with no movement besides up and down. No uneccesary movement.

As of now, I am typing on the logitech illuminated with scissor switches. Though I do find that the keys have a bit of wobble.

Any opinions, especially from those who have tried several of the above keyboards would be appreciated.

[itlnstln]

Topre/HHKB/ > Buckling Springs > Cherry-based keyboards > Alps-based keyboards.
 
It's not really the key cap, per se, that wobbles so much as the switches' sliders (the Topres don't have a slider, but whatever). The Cherry slider sits inside the switch housing (with just the interface stem sticking out), so there's really not a lot of room to move in there. OTOH, much of the Alps slider is outside the housing, so it's a little easier to get some leverage to move the key.

[JBert]

Actually, is key wobble that bad? I think it is only a problem if it stops you from pressing down the key.
However, any of the keyboards you listed should have a better design than the logitech and probably don't suffer from the same horrendous wobble.

You need to think about which one you really want. Topre switches and most Cherries have a "light touch" whereas buckling spring keyboards take considerably more force with their "heavy touch".
If you can write comfortably on a typewriter or a bad rubber dome, a buckling spring keyboard may work. For all else, try some (cheap) Cherry keyboards before moving on to the expensive HHKB - although the latter is supposed to feel pretty smooth.

[rdjack21]

It's not really the key cap, per se, that wobbles so much as the switches' sliders (the Topres don't have a slider, but whatever).

The Topre's do have a slider it is in the key housing as seen here:







Also aeoc if you want to see how a HHKB Pro is built take a look at this article http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:6902

And if you want to understand how the Topre switch works look here http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Topre/Realforce+Reference+-+all+things+topre

Pretty much all of the quality boards have very little key wobble. But be careful of the Alps some are very tight and some are very loose. Key wobble is one one of the reasons I don't really like the ABS M1 it just feels so sloppy but the one I have may have the XM switches so that may be the problem with it.

[itlnstln]

The Topre's do have a slider it is in the key housing as seen here:

My bad; I never think of the housing.  I always think of the caps and the domes.
 

Pretty much all of the quality boards have very little key wobble. But be careful of the Alps some are very tight and some are very loose. Key wobble is one one of the reasons I don't really like the ABS M1 it just feels so sloppy but the one I have may have the XM switches so that may be the problem with it.

The caps fit tight on the Alps, but the whole slider wobbles.  Every Alps 'board I have has the same sloppy wobble.  While Alps are pretty good switches, the wobbling always gave me a "low-quality" impression.  That, and the wobbling in Alps contributes some to the "rattling" sound and feel of the switches.

[itlnstln]

I think there might be something to how different key caps fit to the same switch, too.  My Cherry has almost no wobble while my Filco has more.  It might be that the caps on the Cherry fit tighter than the Filco, but I'm not sure.

[timw4mail]

Yes, the keycaps can make a big difference on the same kind of switch.

[nanu]

Ironically, I was under the impression that scissor-switch keyboards have the least amount of wobble.

[rnak92a]

IMO, skip all this jibber-jabber and purchase a Model M, part no. 1391401.  You'll not regret it.  After all, all other mechanical keyboards are inferior to the Model M.  :wink:

Cheers,
~rn

[itlnstln]

I never really noticed it before, but I really like the square edges on the μTRON.

[itlnstln]

The μTRON with Topre switches has very wobbly keys. They have a new website btw.

Do they use a different mounting system than other Topre-based 'boards?  I wonder why they would be more wobbly than any other.

[itlnstln]

I, personally, don't really care about wobble as I don't really think it affects my typing.  With the Alps, it's the rattling effect that gives me the bad perception.

[CX23882]

I, personally, don't really care about wobble as I don't really think it affects my typing.  With the Alps, it's the rattling effect that gives me the bad perception.

That's my problem with the black Alps in the Dell AT101W. The rattles from the black Alps break my flow. The white Alps don't seem as bad, because there is a click corresponding to the keyswitch trigger.

[aeoc]

A big thank you to all replies, I really do appreciate it.

The only experiences I've had with mechanical keyboards are that of the cherry blue and black switches. They were old POS keyboards with no branding.
I found the blue to be very wobbly and loose, but now I am quite sure it was caused mainly by age and manufacturer.

I was very impressed with the cherry blacks as they felt very solid and did not have too much sideways movement. A small part of the solid feel may have been attributed to the keycaps being completely flat though (maybe?). Perhaps making it less suceptible to rocking. I do not think I would be able to comfortably type on this switch for prolonged periods of time though.

Regarding the logitech illuminated (scissor keys), if you apply pressure to the edges of the keys you can feel it wobbling. I found this applies to all scissor keys that I have come across. Maybe I am expecting too much.

An analogy of what I am looking for is something like piano or typewriter keys, there's no wobble, no movement besides up and down, regardless of where you press, the keys only move down one way. It uses a lever system though, so I am not sure if any modern keyboard would really completely feature these descriptions.


As of now, I will contemplate for 1 more week before deciding and going through with an order.
I am still leaning more towards the hhkb2 but I am a bit confused by reading various topre opinions ranging from underwhelming to very good.
It feels safer to just spring for a new model m lol.

Again thanks to everyone for your help.

[InSanCen]

Yes, the keycaps can make a big difference on the same kind of switch.

I can attest to this.

I bought a random keyboard off of Ebay. It has pink sliders (Not Alps, but very similar, the keycaps are compatible). It felt OK, but "rattled" a lot. Out of curiosity, I swapped the caps off of a Wang 724 (Pink Sliders). It now feels much, I dunno, tighter I guess. It's a pity, as the cheaper feeling rattly keycaps were doubleshot's.

[rdjack21]

I am still leaning more towards the hhkb2 but I am a bit confused by reading various topre opinions ranging from underwhelming to very good.
It feels safer to just spring for a new model m lol.

It really depends on the type of typer you are. If prefer a lighter switch get the Topre. If on the other hand you prefer a heaver switch get the BS. But nothing wrong with getting a Model M first to see if you like it. If nothing else it could save you some money if you like it. If you don't like it no big deal sell it and get the HHKB Pro or keep it for a back up.

[microsoft windows]

The keys on the model M don't wobble.

[BucklingSpring]

As Buck Howard (John Malkovich) would say -> “I love this thread”
And oh btw… Emily Blunt is sinfully hot in this movie.

Being a wobbler hater myself, I’d like you experts to run a top 5 list of the less wobbling keyboards.

I agree with what was posted so far. Buckling springs is way up there.
Now what would be the other 4?

And be serious in your posts ie:

No form over function


Or TVS Gold

[d2v]

@BucklingSpring

The TVS Gold has no wobble in its current form. Check out the two reviews (mine and Welly's) in the reviews section.

On the other side, I have a candidate for the most wobbly board in the world - The Enter Flexible keyboard



The wobble is so horrible that I can't stand typing on this board. One has to hit right at the center of the key and still check the screen for every character. The board apparently uses some silicon pad housed in a rubber balloon for every key.

[BucklingSpring]

@BucklingSpring

The TVS Gold has no wobble in its current form. Check out the two reviews (mine and Welly's) in the reviews section.

Nice TVS review btw.

I’m skeptical about your no wobble statement. Looking at the pics you posted, the key caps seam to have the same ultra thin plastic sockets to fit on the “+” switch connector.

Maybe we just don’t agree on what wobbling means.

[wellington1869]

Nice TVS review btw.

I’m skeptical about your no wobble statement. Looking at the pics you posted, the key caps seam to have the same ultra thin plastic sockets to fit on the “+” switch connector.

Maybe we just don’t agree on what wobbling means.

hey buckling spring, i think he means the tvs no longer has the kind of wobble that you described. I can concur on that, my tvs also did not have the kind of wobble that you described. We figure they must have changed something.

[Rajagra]

The XXXXX keyboard doesn't wobble.

Be sure to check all 6 degrees of movement before claiming that.



I suppose with modern manufacturing techniques - with tolerances measured in microns or less - they could make keys with no noticable wobble, but the design would have to really prioritize the issue or else thermal expansion would ruin things.

[BucklingSpring]

I can concur on that, my tvs also did not have the kind of wobble that you described. We figure they must have changed something.

Do you still have your DAS III?

While not as bad as my TVS, I find the DAS quite a wobbler as well.
So if you think your DAS doesn't wobble, then we can agree to disagree.

:-)

[BucklingSpring]

Cherrys are perched on these little keystems and no matter how well the key fits (and the Filco keys fit well) you're gonna get wobble.

Bingo! I couldn't find a better way to say it.

Thus the TVS is a wobbler by design :-)
Now the question is how does it compare amongst other wobblers.

Thank you ripster.

[wellington1869]

most keys wobble to some degree. Probably the topres come closest to no wobble. Bet I could make even them wobble if I tried.
It might be nice to have a board with absolute-zero wobble. It would probably feel very secure/stable on the downstroke.
On the other hand, for me wobble sometimes adds some much needed personality or character to a keyboard. The tp2 comes to mind. Lots of wobble but that was in part what made it so chattery, jingly, and ultimately added to the fun experience of typing on it. For me anyway.
Of course too much wobble can be disruptive. I was afraid of the tvs wobble after seeing bucklingspring's pics of it, but it looks like they reigned it in a little bit anyway.