My first mechanical keyboard: Filco Majestouch 2 vs my trusty KeyTronic

[blazzo]

Hi guys

I'm very close to taking the dive into the mechanical keyboard world but have a few questions. I can see this getting expensive but fun.

The Filco Majestouch 2 with Cherry Red switches seems to be the one for me as far as design/looks goes - I need TKL and a very 'standard keyboard' look. But I have read about the key caps not being that good (getting 'shiny'?).

Can anyone share any knowledge of how the caps compare to my KeyTronic KT800? I have no idea what sort of caps this has (ABS or PBT etc).

If my goal is to have caps that feel/wear just like these KeyTronic ones (or as close to as possible), as I am perfectly happy with them, would I need custom caps on my new Filco or would I be happy with the stock set?

[merlin64]

The keytronic you have seems to be a membrane switch. If this is your first mechanical keyboard, I think the feel of the mechanical switches will greatly overshadow any difference in the keycaps.

If you read around, you'll find great debate about which keycap material is better. Some prefer the feel of thick pbt, gmk abs, etc etc. All I can say is, you never really know. I thought I really preferred doubleshot abs, but after trying out thick pbt set, I liked it a whole lot better. Get your new keyboard and stick with it for a month before you change anything. 

[rowdy]

Welcome to Geekhack!

The KeyTronic KT800 does seem like a robber dome keyboard, and most likely has ABS keycaps.

The Filco has standard ABS keycaps (AFAIK), although there are ABS keycaps and there are ABS keycaps.

I am using a set of Filco yellow ABS keycaps at the moment, and they are fine.  A little shine starting on the space bar, on the right side where my right thumb keeps hitting it.

The Filco has a standard layout, so if you do choose to replace the keycaps at some stage, you won't have any problems finding suitable sets.

[blazzo]

Thanks guys. And thanks for the welcome.

I really appreciate the responses as this is an expensive first purchase and minor things bug me pretty easily (thanks hardcore OCD). I was worried about the keycaps but as you said I can replace them if they end up bothering me. I was also worried about the 'ping' issue but apparently that is fixable without much hassle, and it might not even be an issue.

So I'll probably end up ordering the Filco today and giving it a go.

there are ABS keycaps and there are ABS keycaps.

Meaning, for example, Filco stock ABS keycaps might wear/feel different than... WASD ABS keycaps? I've already been eyeing those to color things up a bit. I think the addiction has begun before I've even ordered this thing.

Thanks again, off to look at pictures of peoples Filcos!

[rowdy]

there are ABS keycaps and there are ABS keycaps.

Meaning, for example, Filco stock ABS keycaps might wear/feel different than... WASD ABS keycaps? I've already been eyeing those to color things up a bit. I think the addiction has begun before I've even ordered this thing.

Yes.  Filco keycaps are not too bad - these yelloe onws I am using right now are quite good - readable legends, good consistency, a little shine on the space bar, but you'd expect some shine eventually with ABS.

Other ABS keycaps seem shiny to start with, or have inconsistent legends.

Or shine really eaily.

[blazzo]

Just wanted to say thanks for all the input. I ordered the Filco yesterday and should have it by Monday. Very excited!

Already scouting out a PBT set to try for fun. I've got years of keyboard addiction to catch up on.

Thanks again.

[davkol]

The KeyTronic you have is one of the better ones—some call it poor-man's Topre, and people *upgrade* from Cherry-MX keyboards, Filco MJ included, to Topre. Its keycaps should be ABS with a nice, a bit rough texture and very good laser etching or engraving (can't remember right now). The pejorative remarks about membranes/domes are ignorant at best.

OTOH Filco MJ2 has a much more solid case even out of the box (and add a metal plate to that), and it's *customizable*. You can replace keycaps (almost anything but WASD Keyboards' caps is higher quality), the case, cable and even the controller.

[blazzo]

The KeyTronic you have is one of the better ones—some call it poor-man's Topre, and people *upgrade* from Cherry-MX keyboards, Filco MJ included, to Topre. Its keycaps should be ABS with a nice, a bit rough texture and very good laser etching or engraving (can't remember right now). The pejorative remarks about membranes/domes are ignorant at best.

OTOH Filco MJ2 has a much more solid case even out of the box (and add a metal plate to that), and it's *customizable*. You can replace keycaps (almost anything but WASD Keyboards' caps is higher quality), the case, cable and even the controller.

Nice, thanks for that info! I really appreciate that, very good to know. I guess Topre is potentially in my future. Any idea if the uniform 45g or the 55g would be most comparable to my KeyTronic? I don't like the idea of the variable weight version...

The lettering on this KeyTronic is definitely quality - I've been using it for years, gaming and programming, and there is no sign of wear on any of the keys. I am going to order a set of PBT (Vortex Doubleshot is the only set available locally, so those) just to try out the difference, but now I will also look for a set of nice ABS with better engraving than the default Filco. I'd just really like to replicate the feel of this KeyTronic as much as possible - that would make me happy.

Thanks again.

[davkol]

If you only want to replicate the feel, you should have bought some Key Tronic E03601. They're much more solid, but essentially the same keyboards. Or invest in a Topre, probably 55g, but that's a long stretch.

Cherry MX feel different. Vortex DS have a completely different, smooth texture. Filco MJ2 has overall different qualities.

[blazzo]

I need a TKL setup is the thing. It's honestly not a huge deal, I still like the look of the Filco and will definitely enjoy customizing it (already have plans!). I will use the Filco on my gaming machine, and I will think about getting a Topre in a couple of months for my programming/regular use setup.

[davkol]

Fair enough. I guess it's NovaTouch or Realforce then? ^_^

[blazzo]

So my Filco came. I actually really don't like the feel of the Reds so far. Very 'springy'. Will give it a couple of weeks testing of course and also switch the caps out (the default caps are horribly 'slippery' - got some PBTs coming soon). Louder than I expected too.

I guess a Topre of some sort is going to be in my life sooner rather than later. Or more KT800... but that means no TKL

[rowdy]

Most people find MX reds very light.  I find them too light - too easy to accidentally press keys just by resting my hand on the keyboard.

But then I have fairly strong hands, and typing on MX blacks or greens all day doesn't bother me.

[mrmillsy]

I bought the same thing as my first keyboard and honestly I wish I'd gone for browns.

I mis-type a LOT more on my filco than on a standard membrane.

Edit: Oh yeah, my original reason for replying - at first the sound was unsettling but now I'm much more used to it and it's actually quite nice.  Has it mellowed?  Have I simply become inured to it?  Dunno.  Either way, I like it more now than when I first bought it.

[PointyFox]

Maybe something like this: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Noppoo-new-108-electrostic-capacitive-pro-mechanical-keyboard-topre-clone-switches-gaming-keyboard-PBT-keycap-detachable/2039433313.html

[blazzo]

yeah rowdy, I have experienced that today a bit as well. I mainly just don't like the way you can feel the keys springing back up as you type, I think that's what it is anyway. It feels like you can feel them coming back up as you move your fingers to other keys. I don't notice that on my KeyTronic.

I'm in the process of deciding what to try next:

CM Novatouch - being able to use MX caps is a bonus
Realforce 45g / 55g - love the style of the 87UB version, but deciding between 45g/55g to try first is pretty risky monetarily.

[blazzo]

After testing more it's not only the feeling I described, but also the actual pressing down of the keys. I can feel the travel distance in them both ways. On my KeyTronic all I feel is the bottoming out. I feel no travel distance either way. That is what I like about it (the KT), I guess?

Also, with the reds, if I am holding a key down, it almost feels like it is fighting to come up again. Hence the springy feeling I guess. Holding down a key on the KT feels like nothing.

Does all of this mean Topre is my safest bet?

[rowdy]

All MX switches have a spring in them.

They resists as you press the switch in and the spring compresses.

Then you have to hold the switch down while the spring is trying to force the plunger back up.

The stiffness of the spring dictates how much force you need to depress the switch, and how much to hold it in.

Also all MX switches have 4mm travel - 2mm until they actuate, then 2mm until they bottom out.  You can reduce the total travel by installing O-rings, but they will still take 2mm to actuate.

[jukaduke1184]

PBT will last a long time. If price is an issue, I purchased some rosewill PBT caps from amazon. Decently priced and seem to be pretty good.