Realforce top case movement

[Mooksie]

If I push on my RF 87's top case it can move front to back and side to side. I'm assuming this is normal do to the clip system but just making sure 

[Altis]

Yep, it does it on both of mine as well.

In fact, the whole thing is just held together by the top and bottom case clips. The inner board is simply placed freely between them, and the clips aren't particularly tight.

Not exactly the build quality you'd expect given the price tag. By comparison, the BlackWidow is built like a tank with 150 screws.

[Mooksie]

Meh, feels solid enough to me. Nothing creaks. Doesn't bend. It's all about them feels anyways.

[Polymer]

Yep, it does it on both of mine as well.

In fact, the whole thing is just held together by the top and bottom case clips. The inner board is simply placed freely between them, and the clips aren't particularly tight.

Not exactly the build quality you'd expect given the price tag. By comparison, the BlackWidow is built like a tank with 150 screws.

And yet the build quality poos all over the Black Widow...

Metal and screws doesn't mean something has good build quality...

[Bucake]

same here.

kind of a bummer, yeah : )

[Altis]

They should all do it pretty consistently since the clips on the top half of the case are narrower than the receiving holes on the bottom of the case.

I'm just glad the entire keyboard plate/PCB doesn't have play considering it's just placed between the case halves and not secured at all.

[rowdy]

Perhaps it is designed to do this.

To flex in the wind like a blade of grass, rather than absorbing blows like a brick.

[Mooksie]

^

[Altis]

Perhaps it is designed to do this.

To flex in the wind like a blade of grass, rather than absorbing blows like a brick.

I don't understand what you mean by this. The case is no stronger or more durable as a result. It just has less tight tolerances.

They could have easily fixed this by adding screws or guiding pins to prevent lateral movement.

There's even play when you push down on the top case because the clips aren't that tight.

I love my 87Us very much, regardless, but there really isn't an excuse for it at $200.

[rf87]

Perhaps it is designed to do this.

To flex in the wind like a blade of grass, rather than absorbing blows like a brick.

Like your poetry 

The lower part of the case does not merely move, but also bends a little if pushed towards the spacebar. I suppose it would be difficult to eliminate such movement entirely even with screws/guiding pins, since it is the property of the material, rather than just how it is held in place.

[rowdy]

Perhaps it is designed to do this.

To flex in the wind like a blade of grass, rather than absorbing blows like a brick.

Like your poetry 

The lower part of the case does not merely move, but also bends a little if pushed towards the spacebar. I suppose it would be difficult to eliminate such movement entirely even with screws/guiding pins, since it is the property of the material, rather than just how it is held in place.

My HHKB case seems to creak and flex slightly, but it does so with grace, and forms instantly back into its original shape.

Better that, than to flex slightly and snap, or remain permanently warped or cracked.

[Altis]

Perhaps it is designed to do this.

To flex in the wind like a blade of grass, rather than absorbing blows like a brick.

Perhaps it is designed to do this.

To flex in the wind like a blade of grass, rather than absorbing blows like a brick.

Why would a keyboard need some kind of impact resistance beyond that of the material naturally? And we're talking about play between the case halves rather than flex from pressure.

Yep, it does it on both of mine as well.

In fact, the whole thing is just held together by the top and bottom case clips. The inner board is simply placed freely between them, and the clips aren't particularly tight.

Not exactly the build quality you'd expect given the price tag. By comparison, the BlackWidow is built like a tank with 150 screws.

And yet the build quality poos all over the Black Widow...

Metal and screws doesn't mean something has good build quality...

No, but in this case one is built with a high attention to detail while the other is put together quite literally with as few and as basic of components as possible. The BW (older '12 version) is the only board I have that does not creak, squeak, or have any flex or play whatsoever, and I have quite a few boards now.

I love my 87Us very much and am thinking of getting a third because they type so wonderfully, but there's absolutely no excuse for the way it's put together at that price. The board isn't even attached to the case. If any one plastic tab breaks, you're in trouble.

[cheebs]

ITT: Realforce apologists.

[Polymer]

No, but in this case one is built with a high attention to detail while the other is put together quite literally with as few and as basic of components as possible. The BW (older '12 version) is the only board I have that does not creak, squeak, or have any flex or play whatsoever, and I have quite a few boards now.

I love my 87Us very much and am thinking of getting a third because they type so wonderfully, but there's absolutely no excuse for the way it's put together at that price. The board isn't even attached to the case. If any one plastic tab breaks, you're in trouble.

So you don't think it is done by design?  That they've just gone cheap on it?  That would be surprising considering where it is made...To me it all looks by design...There is a high attention to detail, you just don't agree with the logic behind it. 

Flex does not mean it isn't made well..I think people need to understand that..but you obviously disagree.  What I find funny is you're comparing it to a BW...which you feel is made well..and yet it has a reputation for being junk.

[Altis]

No, but in this case one is built with a high attention to detail while the other is put together quite literally with as few and as basic of components as possible. The BW (older '12 version) is the only board I have that does not creak, squeak, or have any flex or play whatsoever, and I have quite a few boards now.

I love my 87Us very much and am thinking of getting a third because they type so wonderfully, but there's absolutely no excuse for the way it's put together at that price. The board isn't even attached to the case. If any one plastic tab breaks, you're in trouble.

So you don't think it is done by design?  That they've just gone cheap on it?  That would be surprising considering where it is made...To me it all looks by design...There is a high attention to detail, you just don't agree with the logic behind it. 

Flex does not mean it isn't made well..I think people need to understand that..but you obviously disagree.  What I find funny is you're comparing it to a BW...which you feel is made well..and yet it has a reputation for being junk.

What's your defense that the 87U is made well? It literally could not have been made more economically or with less fastening.

You think they went out of their way to design a top and bottom case that meet with four plastic clips that have about 1mm of play, and that it's better to not even have the keyboard itself attached to either case half?

What attention to detail? There isn't even anything to have detail in the first place since there's really no components to the case. For $200 USD?

Hate on the BW all you want, but in terms of the case assembly, it's built very tough. Most failures are LEDs and other electronics going nutty, though mine hasn't had a problem.

Like I say, I love both my 87Us to the point of wanting a third despite it costing around $300 USD by the time it gets here in Canada. But to pretend the case assembly is premium is pretty well indefensible. The plastic is decent, but there is very little holding it together and about 1mm of X and Y play between the case halves. It creaks, it flexes, and is quite easy to break a tab, and since there's nothing else holding it together, a broken tab would spell disaster on these expensive boards.

[Polymer]

No, but in this case one is built with a high attention to detail while the other is put together quite literally with as few and as basic of components as possible. The BW (older '12 version) is the only board I have that does not creak, squeak, or have any flex or play whatsoever, and I have quite a few boards now.

I love my 87Us very much and am thinking of getting a third because they type so wonderfully, but there's absolutely no excuse for the way it's put together at that price. The board isn't even attached to the case. If any one plastic tab breaks, you're in trouble.

So you don't think it is done by design?  That they've just gone cheap on it?  That would be surprising considering where it is made...To me it all looks by design...There is a high attention to detail, you just don't agree with the logic behind it. 

Flex does not mean it isn't made well..I think people need to understand that..but you obviously disagree.  What I find funny is you're comparing it to a BW...which you feel is made well..and yet it has a reputation for being junk.

What's your defense that the 87U is made well? It literally could not have been made more economically or with less fastening.

You think they went out of their way to design a top and bottom case that meet with four plastic clips that have about 1mm of play, and that it's better to not even have the keyboard itself attached to either case half?

What attention to detail? There isn't even anything to have detail in the first place since there's really no components to the case. For $200 USD?

Hate on the BW all you want, but in terms of the case assembly, it's built very tough. Most failures are LEDs and other electronics going nutty, though mine hasn't had a problem.

Like I say, I love both my 87Us to the point of wanting a third despite it costing around $300 USD by the time it gets here in Canada. But to pretend the case assembly is premium is pretty well indefensible. The plastic is decent, but there is very little holding it together and about 1mm of X and Y play between the case halves. It creaks, it flexes, and is quite easy to break a tab, and since there's nothing else holding it together, a broken tab would spell disaster on these expensive boards.

It IS made very well..you just think made well = Solid block of metal and screws.  What you don't see is there are good tolerances in the case, it fits nicely..there is give and flex but it can be put back to where it needs to be.  Clean build for all of the parts, it just looks like everything is how it should.  Why do they need to be attached to the case?  What you don't see to realize is if you move your keyboard around, is your board moving around in the case?  No it isn't right? It fits exactly how it should. 

You like your BW, you think it is made well..because it was marketed for people, like yourself, that think big metal thing = quality.  But we know the BW has reliability problems, does your 87u?  If I had to kill someone with a keyboard, the BW would make a much better weapon but we're not picking a weapon. 

Plastic does not mean something is cheap...

[Altis]

It IS made very well..you just think made well = Solid block of metal and screws.  What you don't see is there are good tolerances in the case, it fits nicely..there is give and flex but it can be put back to where it needs to be.  Clean build for all of the parts, it just looks like everything is how it should.  Why do they need to be attached to the case?  What you don't see to realize is if you move your keyboard around, is your board moving around in the case?  No it isn't right? It fits exactly how it should. 

You like your BW, you think it is made well..because it was marketed for people, like yourself, that think big metal thing = quality.  But we know the BW has reliability problems, does your 87u?  If I had to kill someone with a keyboard, the BW would make a much better weapon but we're not picking a weapon. 

Plastic does not mean something is cheap...

By what objective standard is it "very well made"? You state it outright without supporting it. I really am only picking on its weak point, which is the case assembly.

I never use it anymore (I don't actually like it or MX Blue). But objectively, having taken it apart, it has been put together quite robustly. In fact, half of the fastenings could break and you'd still have more than enough to have it solid and snug. I haven't had any of my keyboards fail on me in any way, and I'm up to around 15 board (about half are vintage). The newer ones are certainly built worse than the old ones, and the problems are electronics (LEDs and circuitry). Have you used a keyboard that doesn't creak at all even under unreasonable amounts of pressure/torsion?

Don't talk to me like I'm a BW fanboy when I'm giving you facts to back it up. I haven't used my BW in over two years, and I'm thinking of getting a 3rd 87U at a whopping $300USD by the time it gets to Canada. If anything, I'm an 87U fanboy, but I still look at it objectively. Screws are better than plastic clips for holding things together. That's why bolt-modding is done to Model Ms, for example.

Despite my love for the 87U, there's no getting around the fact that it could have been made more robustly, especially for $200 retail. My beef is simply with the case assembly... I sure don't want it to break.

PS - Please don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say I like my BW, I didn't say plastic is cheap, or heavy is good, or "big metal = good". We can have a conversion without strawmanning all the way down the yellow brick road. 

[Polymer]

By what objective standard is it "very well made"? You state it outright without supporting it. I really am only picking on its weak point, which is the case assembly.

I did state it.  Look at how tightly the plate/board fit into the case.  It fits exactly how it should.  The case, when closed, fits exactly how it should and holds it in exactly how it should.  The plate and board are clean, exact and are of obvious quality.  The case, while plastic, is solid, clean, free from burrs, spikes and other obvious flaws.  Does the board/plate flop around in the case?  No..does it need to be screwed into the case?  No right?  You would screw it into the case because without doing that, it would move inside of the case but this one doesn't need it...is that just by random chance or by design?

You're stating the case assembly is bad because of the plastic tabs..I'm saying it isn't.  If you really look at it carefully, the tabs keep the case exactly how it should..while allowing you to take it apart if need be.  The plate and board are in there tight, as tight as it needs to be.  Your complaint about screws would only be relevant if the board was moving around inside of the case..but it isn't...

That isn't a strawman argument...You ARE stuck on the metal+screw thing...obviously.  You can't imagine that this is actually intentional and works well..

[daerid]

ITT: Realforce apologists. People spouting their opinion/preference like it's fact.... yet again.

FTFY

[cheebs]

ITT: Realforce apologists. People spouting their opinion/preference like it's fact.... yet again.

FTFY

This guy again..  Dude, why are you following me around? lol.

[temporal]

My HHKB case seems to creak and flex slightly, but it does so with grace, and forms instantly back into its original shape.

Better that, than to flex slightly and snap, or remain permanently warped or cracked.

Same here, and one of the pads on the bottom refuse to stick which leads to some awkward sliding 

[daerid]

This guy again..  Dude, why are you following me around? lol.

lol, I didn't even realize you were the same person as in that other thread. Nothing personal, it just bothers me when people go around loudly spouting their opinion as fact (not you necessarily.... at least not in this thread ).

[GenKaan]

Perhaps it is designed to do this.

To flex in the wind like a blade of grass, rather than absorbing blows like a brick.

Like your poetry 

The lower part of the case does not merely move, but also bends a little if pushed towards the spacebar. I suppose it would be difficult to eliminate such movement entirely even with screws/guiding pins, since it is the property of the material, rather than just how it is held in place.

My HHKB case seems to creak and flex slightly, but it does so with grace, and forms instantly back into its original shape.

Better that, than to flex slightly and snap, or remain permanently warped or cracked.

Yeah if you push on the HHKB logo it make a crackling noise, would love a seamless case but still really really enjoy it. Its even my main keyboard now