Author Topic: NeoDiNardo's Quest: Looking for the One (keyboard)  (Read 9229 times)

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Offline AndrewZorn

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NeoDiNardo's Quest: Looking for the One (keyboard)
« Reply #50 on: Wed, 14 October 2009, 13:42:37 »
Quote from: NeoDiNardo;125331
Can't wait forever, I've got to pick something soon. I want a decent keyboard(s) for gaming/typing in my hands around the time Modern Warfare 2 comes out. Typing now on a $15 Logitech and it sucks (and hurts during long typing sessions). And its one or two boards for now as I got a bunch of other things to get.

I need to get my PC Case (my current one is slightly too hot for gaming, an old Thermaltake with 80mm fans), my Deathadder 3500 Mouse, my Megasoma Mousepad, and my Keyboard, whatever form that may take. Oh and I need to buy some highend aftermarket Heatsinks for my Rampage II Gene Mobo. I read one of its only flaws was small chipset heatsinks. specifically on the north or south bridge. I forget. Wish I waited for the P55 era (cheaper prices, i7 cpus on P55 have better turbo mode and use 33% less power, so it should run much quieter), but then again now I get the 6-8 core CPUs later on with the X58 platform, more PCI lanes (if we ever actually use them) and it overclocks better due to the PCI controller thingy being separate from the CPU. Plus I want to upgrade my Dell EIPS 22" 2209wa to a Dell HIPS 24" u2410 (for the HD resolution, not so much the size). Oh and some decent speakers.

So while I do want to get this keyboard stuff right, it's only one piece of the current puzzle, not the right time to explore my keyswitches! Gotta pick one or two max. But I wanted to say this forum has been a source invaluable info. Every post has helped in someway... keep em coming :)
most of the stuff with the case i think you are overthinking.  run it stock and properly ventilate it and you wont need something like the RAVEN to cool your stuff (not that the raven is that good at internal airflow)

at least youre going u2410 for the fact that it is H-IPS

sounds like this is purely for games.  just get a tenkeyless black cherry filco, that should be what you need.
Quote from: NeoDiNardo;125336
Looking it up now, does not google too nice yet.... any links?
just google BL82.  not sure what ripster got that model number from.
and yeah, see?  that keyboard ALREADY just slipped off my mind again.  that would be another fine choice if youre into crazy layouts for UBERPROLEET gamers.

EDIT wow is it expensive though.  if the font on the deck is the only difference i could live with it for those prices.
« Last Edit: Wed, 14 October 2009, 13:45:47 by AndrewZorn »

Offline itlnstln

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NeoDiNardo's Quest: Looking for the One (keyboard)
« Reply #51 on: Wed, 14 October 2009, 13:48:19 »
Quote from: wellington1869;125332
intlstln, forgive me, but here is a post where you're talking about key wear on your filco:
http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=111555&postcount=29.

Coating wear, yes, and I acknowledged that here a few posts ago:
 
Quote
I have to agree with majestouch on the keywear problem. The keys get shiny, yes, but I have never seen the letters start to wear. I have 3 Costar-made 'boards and none of them have exhibited any type of wear in the letters. ABS is a softer plastic and will smooth out fairly quickly, especially since there is not much texture on the Filco's keys anyway. Some folks like it, however, as it improves grip on the keys for them. If you want the ultimate in key cap durability, then you will have to go with a Cherry-made 'board as they use POM and PBT for their caps. I have been using my Filco for about 7 months and couldn't be happier.

Now... where's that guy who was talking about the POM replacement caps for Filcos?

The OP specifically spoke about letter wear:
 
Quote
I would like a blank key Otaku version as I figure it looks kewl and the silk screened characters will just rub off anyway.

I stand by my statement.


Offline NeoDiNardo

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NeoDiNardo's Quest: Looking for the One (keyboard)
« Reply #52 on: Wed, 14 October 2009, 13:50:33 »
Yep, I over think alot of things. But it works for me. I come full circle to the right answer eventually :)

I already put the Raven 2 out of my mind. But the Silverstone Fortress 2 coming soon... You can't deny the air cooling of those three bottom fans.

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1429251
« Last Edit: Wed, 14 October 2009, 14:00:15 by NeoDiNardo »

Offline NeoDiNardo

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NeoDiNardo's Quest: Looking for the One (keyboard)
« Reply #53 on: Wed, 14 October 2009, 13:56:21 »
oh forgot to ask... This no return policy is not my fav thing about Elitekeyboards. Still may buy it there, as they are the only Filco dealers, but are there any other good online dealers to browse at, or is Elitekeyboards the only game in town?
« Last Edit: Wed, 14 October 2009, 14:06:31 by NeoDiNardo »

Offline itlnstln

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NeoDiNardo's Quest: Looking for the One (keyboard)
« Reply #54 on: Wed, 14 October 2009, 14:05:07 »
Quote from: wellington1869;125332
This may be coating-wear -- either way the lettering goes  

Other than Skriefal's post, do you have any other evidence of this?  I have three 'boards, and I haven't seen it yet.
 
Quote from: wellington1869;125332
laser-etched keys may not be a selling point for some buyers, but its for the buyer to decide for himself or herself, and I dont think we should let these experiences be 'buried'; a review forum is supposed to bring up (not bury) negative experiences so the buyer can make their own decisions about their personal priorities. What good is a review/enthusiasts forum that buries negative experiences? Even if these experiences are in the minority, its only at a review forum that you'll even be informed about them. If you want a monolithic sales pitch, visit vendors sites for that. If you want to hear (and evaluate for yourself) a variety of end-user experiences, come to a review forum like geekhack.

No one is trying to bury negative experiences (at least in regards to key wear), but there is also something to be said about blowing small issues out of proportion, assuming an issue might exist when it doesn't, and creating issues that don't exist.  Yes, on average silk-screened letters do tend to wear where other methods of cap-making do not, but to say that ALL silk-screened caps' letters wear because they're silk-screened is disingenuous and, at the very least, ignorant.  This is how stuff like "Vista's the worst OS EVAR" gets started.


Offline AndrewZorn

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NeoDiNardo's Quest: Looking for the One (keyboard)
« Reply #55 on: Wed, 14 October 2009, 14:07:15 »
but vista is so slow... plus it isn't easy to use!

Offline itlnstln

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NeoDiNardo's Quest: Looking for the One (keyboard)
« Reply #56 on: Wed, 14 October 2009, 14:12:11 »
Quote from: AndrewZorn;125354
but vista is so slow... plus it isn't easy to use!

Oh yeah, I forgot.  I need to keep telling myself that.  I'm getting weak.  These faster boot times and complete lack of frustration keep pulling me to the dark side.


Offline NeoDiNardo

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NeoDiNardo's Quest: Looking for the One (keyboard)
« Reply #57 on: Wed, 14 October 2009, 14:15:02 »
Windows 7 RC rocks, all is forgivin. I would have bought a Mac Pro if not for this software.

Offline timw4mail

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NeoDiNardo's Quest: Looking for the One (keyboard)
« Reply #58 on: Wed, 14 October 2009, 14:23:21 »
If one is so worried about key wear, find a G81 on ebay with double-shot keys and forget about it.
Buckling Springs IBM Model F AT, New Model F 77, Unicomp New Model M
Clicky iOne Scorpius M10, OCN-branded Ducky DK-9008-C, Blackmore Nocturna, Redragon Kumara K552-1, Qtronix Scorpius Keypad, Chicony KB-5181(Monterey)
Tactile Apple AEKII (Cream damped ALPS), Filco FKBN91M/JB (Japanese Tenkeyless), Cherry G84-5200, Cherry G84-4100LPAUS, Datalux Spacesaver(Cherry ML), Redragon Devarajas K556 RGB, Newmen GM711, Poker II (Cherry MX Clear), Logitech G910 Orion Spark, Logitech K840
Linear Lenovo Y (Gateron Red), Aluminum kiosk keyboard (Cherry MX Black)

Offline mike2h

  • Posts: 108
NeoDiNardo's Quest: Looking for the One (keyboard)
« Reply #59 on: Wed, 14 October 2009, 14:33:47 »
got vista 64 on 2 comps. faster & more stable than xp by a large margin. still running xp pro on the lappy, got no compelling reason to upgrade there considering its intermittent use.
not sure why some keep harping about the font on the deck kb. i like it & everybody that i know that has seen it likes it- or at least doesnt dislike it. while of course its a personal opinion, to go on about it everytime somebody mentions 'deck' is a little overboard. unless you really, REALLY DONT LIKE IT. lol.

op- the pictures of the deck kb on the site realy do not do them justice. the case looks better, & the keys look way better. you would think they would take the trouble to show them with more angles, under a couple of different lighting setups & better res.
« Last Edit: Wed, 14 October 2009, 14:37:26 by mike2h »

Offline AndrewZorn

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NeoDiNardo's Quest: Looking for the One (keyboard)
« Reply #60 on: Wed, 14 October 2009, 14:37:25 »
i really dont like the deck letters

THEY JUST REMIND ME OF THIS
THAT'S ALL

Offline itlnstln

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NeoDiNardo's Quest: Looking for the One (keyboard)
« Reply #61 on: Wed, 14 October 2009, 14:43:26 »
Quote from: mike2h;125366
.not sure why some keep harping about the font on the deck kb. i like it & everybody that i know that has seen it likes, while of course its a personal opinion to go on abvout it everytime somebody mentions 'deck' is a little overboard. unless you really, REALLY DONT LIKE IT. lol.
op. the pictires of the deck kb on the site reaaly do not d othem justice. the case looks better, & the keys look way better. you would think they would take the trouble to show them with more angles, under a couple of different lighting setups & better res.

I think this happens when something deviates fairly far off the "norms" for a particular item.  The Model M, Topre Realforce, Filco, Cherry, etc. all have a somewhat "average" font and design for their key caps/cases which keeps their appeal pretty widespread.  When something deviates enough from "average," say, ultra-modern furniture, you are going to find some people that like it some that really don't like it without much in the middle.  I think that Deck's products bring this out in the comments.  No one really comments too harshly on the design of some of the other 'boards I've mentioned, because there is not much to get excited either way about.


Offline itlnstln

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NeoDiNardo's Quest: Looking for the One (keyboard)
« Reply #62 on: Wed, 14 October 2009, 14:45:50 »
Quote from: AndrewZorn;125367
i really dont like the deck letters
 
THEY JUST REMIND ME OF THIS
THAT'S ALL

QFT.  An interesting way to put it, but this captures the spirit of the thing.  That, and the shape of the letters themselves look like something better suited for a steampunk project, for better or worse.


Offline AndrewZorn

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NeoDiNardo's Quest: Looking for the One (keyboard)
« Reply #63 on: Wed, 14 October 2009, 14:52:08 »
i just think it also mixes [some other weird style, like you said] with "super advanced alien glowy keyboard" theme

EDIT i thought the 82key was $99?  what happened?  i revoke my 'value' comment.  without having used one, i would rather have a filco with blacks 100% now.

Offline majestouch

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NeoDiNardo's Quest: Looking for the One (keyboard)
« Reply #64 on: Wed, 14 October 2009, 15:11:59 »
Quote from: AndrewZorn;125236
what wellington is saying, warranty or not, is that your site policy is "returns for exchanges only" (right?) and that the keyboard even in pristine state still has the problems.  an exchange would not help him.



Yes, wellington is saying an exchange would not help him, however, I've already told him I would take return of the board...if he had not voided the warranty. Wellington's evaluation of me being a salesman with a pitch is patently incorrect. I pride myself on my integrity. I'm a skeptic and a consumer just like everyone else. *This* is my angle. And I'm a very difficult distributor for Diatec because of all the questions I ask and changes I pursue. Feel free to villianize me, I'm above it and I won't react to it, but don't forget, I make things happen.

My policy of keyboard "exchange only" is for 1 reason:

Sanitation. How do I clean a keyboard someone else has used? How do I insure it doesn't have infectious pathogens on it or fingernails and midnight snacks deep within it? I've seen live bugs among colonies of dead bugs within keyboards that have been on a shelf for 5+ years in a closet feeding off of in-board detritus. And I've seen multiple studies that report keyboards being one of the top 3 dirtiest most germ infested places in our homes and offices; worse that toilet seats.

Essentially I cannot resell returned boards as new, and with the high-end nature of the boards I sell, I have to do something to stem the tide of used boards that I'd have on hand were I to allow it. Ever test-driven a Ferrari? Yea, me neither.

This is not to say I don't or can't make exceptions. Anyone that wants to have a respectable conversation with me can contact me at any time:-D

Quote from: AndrewZorn;125236

i mean, i am glad i didn't buy a zero b-stock, the price is awesome, but having issues at that speed (even though i am not there yet) is kind of unacceptable for a high-end keyboard on ELITEkeyboards.com.


At what speed? Do you type 115WPM? Have you ever seen someone typing that fast? It's approaching a blur, so it is very hard to say what causes a mistake at those speeds. When someone or a machine that types at or above such speeds wants to do some respectable statistical analysis, then we can sit down and compare error rates and begin to discuss whether an obvious issue exists or necessitates further inquiry. From what I understand well above 115 is no problem for this board, so I'd love to see trials from someone that can do significantly better. I don't even type at 115, otherwise I'd do it myself right now just to compare notes with someone else that claims an issue at that speed.

Quote from: AndrewZorn;125236

it isn't an easy thing to solve, of course, the people here would rather you take the keyboard off the site to avoid confusion, or perhaps put up a "WARNING..." message.  but from a seller's point of view, everything sold everywhere is a decision of the consumer.  not every product out there is perfect and people are expected to do their own research.  you are not selling knock-offs or defective items... just an item that has a known issue.


I really need serious proof to make claims of this nature.

Quote from: AndrewZorn;125236

now filco, on the other hand, is certainly to blame for the printed keycaps (come on, could be laser at least for a board this expensive) AND the zero issue.

i just hope my caps don't wear... but i think i know why they do (quickly) for some people.  i wash my hands, type lightly.  when i play games, i keep my fingers in place.  i see other people take their gritty fingers from right after eating something salty, for example... and then RUB it into the keys, SLIDING their fingers all over.

the only reassuring thing is that the blank keycaps are there.  after finding all this out i am glad they do NOT have the 'coating', one less thing to wear away!  the board might be better initially with the coating and printed caps, but after time it looks worse.  i almost with there were glossy plastic caps so that they didn't get shiny over time, too.


Blame? Diatec has invested quite a bit into a proprietary printing and coating process that is unique to the industry. The fact that I've only ever seen and heard about ONE photo of one key that exhibited anything approaching the classification of "letter wear" is testament to the success of this process. Defects, of course, do occur. This isn't a sales-pitch, it's just statistics. Find me some other FILCO boards with worn lettering if you'd like to make me think otherwise:)

Lasered keys might actually be cheaper, but I personally don't think they look as nice or feel as smooth as the Diatec printing process. Additionally, price is about more than just materials and manufacturing process, but as I mentioned, I'm a pushy distributor, and I'm always working to get what I want, don't shoot me yet...

Offline AndrewZorn

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NeoDiNardo's Quest: Looking for the One (keyboard)
« Reply #65 on: Wed, 14 October 2009, 15:18:22 »
wow i thought i was making a post to defend both sides

Offline itlnstln

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NeoDiNardo's Quest: Looking for the One (keyboard)
« Reply #66 on: Wed, 14 October 2009, 15:24:09 »
Quote from: majestouch;125387
Blame? Diatec has invested quite a bit into a proprietary printing and coating process that is unique to the industry. The fact that I've only ever seen and heard about ONE photo of one key that exhibited anything approaching the classification of "letter wear" is testament to the success of this process. Defects, of course, do occur. This isn't a sales-pitch, it's just statistics. Find me some other FILCO boards with worn lettering if you'd like to make me think otherwise:)
 

This.  To say otherwise is pretty much FUD.


Offline ch_123

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NeoDiNardo's Quest: Looking for the One (keyboard)
« Reply #67 on: Wed, 14 October 2009, 15:39:33 »
Quote from: majestouch;125387
At what speed? Do you type 115WPM? Have you ever seen someone typing that fast? It's approaching a blur, so it is very hard to say what causes a mistake at those speeds.


Nobody (or at least very very few people) types at 115WPM in a sustained  manner, but weren't the 'issues' with the Filco Zero noted when someone typed a single word at a 115WPM burst? To me, this seems like a quite feasible situation; I type at around 70WPM if I'm really concentrating on it, but if I am, for example, typing a command into a terminal, I may type that single word at a very high WPM depending on the length of the word and where the constituent letters are placed on the keyboard...

 I think what I'm getting at here is how WPM isn't a very useful quantifier for what is being discussed here, but I believe that has been noted before.

I'm not accusing anyone of anything, just trying to figure out what exactly the issue is.

Offline AndrewZorn

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NeoDiNardo's Quest: Looking for the One (keyboard)
« Reply #68 on: Wed, 14 October 2009, 16:44:46 »
there is no way you can prove that, and you don't even type 115wpm.

Offline itlnstln

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NeoDiNardo's Quest: Looking for the One (keyboard)
« Reply #69 on: Wed, 14 October 2009, 16:49:17 »
Quote from: ripster;125414
Typo - It is a very rare form of controller error where the controller goes forward in the time/space continuum to include an extra keystroke. I blame the firmware engineers.

Quote from: AndrewZorn;125418
there is no way you can prove that, and you don't even type 115wpm.

My day is complete. I can go home now.  See you all tomorrow.


Offline ch_123

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NeoDiNardo's Quest: Looking for the One (keyboard)
« Reply #70 on: Wed, 14 October 2009, 16:50:29 »
Wait, did AndrewZorn take Ripster seriously?

Offline AndrewZorn

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NeoDiNardo's Quest: Looking for the One (keyboard)
« Reply #71 on: Wed, 14 October 2009, 18:15:03 »
if you could get the keyboard initially with opaque black exterior and all blank keys without buying them separately...

i might actually want one.

Offline msiegel

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NeoDiNardo's Quest: Looking for the One (keyboard)
« Reply #72 on: Wed, 14 October 2009, 21:30:39 »
XD when chloe gets back, she's gonna be pissed

Filco Zero (Fukka) AEKII sliders and keycaps * Filco Tenkeyless MX brown * IBM F/AT parts: modding
Model F Mod Log * Open Source Generic keyboard controller

Offline wellington1869

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NeoDiNardo's Quest: Looking for the One (keyboard)
« Reply #73 on: Wed, 14 October 2009, 21:48:15 »
Quote from: ripster;125423
MsKeyboard (who has seen more keys than I will ever in my lifetime) also said that Lasered sounds better than it looks

FWIW she (for all i know its a he, by the way) also said it lasts longer. IIRC she merely mentioned that on the M10 you can get some grime into the narrow etch, though i'm sure nothing that wont wipe away if you wipe down your keyboard. The laser etched letters on both my m10's did just fine in that regard.

For myself, I'd rather have lettering that lasts longer even if I have to wipe down my keyboard now and then -- as opposed to losing sight of them altogether (either from lettering wear or coating-wear that obscures them). Its a choice for the consumer. Like everything else.
« Last Edit: Wed, 14 October 2009, 21:51:44 by wellington1869 »

"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3

Offline wellington1869

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NeoDiNardo's Quest: Looking for the One (keyboard)
« Reply #74 on: Wed, 14 October 2009, 21:49:33 »
Quote from: msiegel;125486
XD when chloe gets back, she's gonna be pissed


I wonder where she went. Probably got tired of our alps-terminology fights. xD

"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3

Offline wellington1869

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NeoDiNardo's Quest: Looking for the One (keyboard)
« Reply #75 on: Wed, 14 October 2009, 22:56:32 »
Quote from: itlnstln;125353

No one is trying to bury negative experiences (at least in regards to key wear), but there is also something to be said about blowing small issues out of proportion, assuming an issue might exist when it doesn't, and creating issues that don't exist. .


[strike]In another thread, here's itlnstln saying  "It's only laser-etched keys for me now." (And that was just 5 days ago).[/strike]

In another thread, here's itlnstln answering a direct question from majestouch:
majestouch:  “Do they [cherry boards] have something to offer that a FILCO board doesn't?
itlnstln: "A completely different feel, much quieter and laser-printed keycaps that don't go shiny after a few weeks."
Were you "blowing things out of proportion"? And why the about-face?



Here's ripster saying: "Laser-etched lettering is especially nice (Filco - you listening??)." (And that was just 7 days ago).
Was he "blowing things out of proportion"? And why the about-face?

from one of many ripster threads on lack of key quality in general:  
"The cost cutting measures of keyboard manufacturers are starting to piss me off. In the volumes we are talking for some of these guys I wouldn't be surprised if dual shots cost them less than $5 a set. "
Was he "blowing things out of proportion" with all those analyses of double shot and laser etched quality?


So whats going on here? Why the about-face or the sudden toning down of these obviously very strong feelings even on the part of both of you?

Whats going on is that the presence of a vendor is destroying objectivity. And is intended to.

------------------------------------

I dont like it. This is the leakage between shopping-mall-gh and enthusiasts-gh that I warned about (and will continue to warn about).  Fanboy-ism is one thing; burying criticism is disingenuous no matter who does it.

The vendor came on this thread and in response to keywear question, with a straight face asked "where'd you hear that?" That disingenuous. Its also disingenuous for any of us not to mention, in response to a question about keywear, the fact that we ourselves have always touted the benefits of laser etched and double shot keys over printed keys and complained about filco keys (coat-wear is keywear as much as anything else and looks like crap to boot).

Saying so doesnt make us disingenuous, it makes us honest in giving the OP the information he's looking for so he can make his own decision based on his own priorities about what he wants in a keyboard.

WIthout interference from the presence of a vendor changing our answers.

(As an aside, funny to insist that coat wear is not to be mentioned in a question about key wear in general. I can understand vendors burying these things, and coming into the keyboard review section in order to bury these things, but I'll still call it out when I see it.)
« Last Edit: Thu, 15 October 2009, 10:55:48 by wellington1869 »

"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3

Offline msiegel

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NeoDiNardo's Quest: Looking for the One (keyboard)
« Reply #76 on: Wed, 14 October 2009, 23:13:11 »
i'm pretty happy with ibm's dye-sub keycaps, but pics of double-shot keycaps still make me want a set :)

Filco Zero (Fukka) AEKII sliders and keycaps * Filco Tenkeyless MX brown * IBM F/AT parts: modding
Model F Mod Log * Open Source Generic keyboard controller

Offline mike2h

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NeoDiNardo's Quest: Looking for the One (keyboard)
« Reply #77 on: Thu, 15 October 2009, 01:18:57 »
Quote from: ripster;125450
Gee Chloe - they sure LOOK white!
Show Image


Show Image


exactly!!!!!
& i love what u do with legos & your other 'inventive' posts.

Offline itlnstln

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NeoDiNardo's Quest: Looking for the One (keyboard)
« Reply #78 on: Thu, 15 October 2009, 07:50:20 »
Quote
In another thread, here's itlnstln saying "It's only laser-etched keys for me now." (And that was just 5 days ago).
Were you "blowing things out of proportion"? And why the about-face?

Did you even read the posts above it??? Lets look at the thread as a whole: Link.
 
Quote

Webwit: *Makes dirty joke about nipples, quality action and double-shot*
 
Ripster (in response to Webwit): "Ewww..... I'll never look at any posts with 'double shot' in them the same now.
 
ItlnStln (in response to Ripster): "It's only laser-etched keys for me now."

Don't take my words out of context.
 
When I read Ripster's post about taking notes, I took that to mean that a company with the quality-perception of Filco should probably use something with the durability record of laser-etching or double-shot keys. That said, I also agree with Ms.Keyboard and Ripster that laser-etched caps, especially black ones, aren't the nicest aesthetics-wise (I mentioned this as far back as March when I got my Cherry G80-3000). The Costar process is the most durable silk-screen process I have ever seen (Ripster has shown comparisons before). Will it be as durable as laser-etching or double-shot over the long haul, probably not, but it's certainly not the crap on an MS or Logitech 'board.
 
You're also taking very general statements (at least from me) and applying them to very specific instances. Nobody is making an about-face. As far as silk-screened printing goes, Costar has the best process, hands-down. Slow down, read all of the evidence, then make a conclusion.
« Last Edit: Thu, 15 October 2009, 08:02:09 by itlnstln »


Offline wellington1869

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NeoDiNardo's Quest: Looking for the One (keyboard)
« Reply #79 on: Thu, 15 October 2009, 10:59:20 »
itln, you’re absolutely right, that was a bad example of your (former) commitment to laser etched quality. My apologies, and  I hope you find my new example of your views is better suited to my overall point:

In another thread, here's itlnstln answering a direct question from majestouch:
majestouch:  “Do they [cherry boards] have something to offer that a FILCO board doesn't?
itlnstln: "A completely different feel, much quieter and laser-printed keycaps that don't go shiny after a few weeks."

Is that representative enough of your views?
------------------------------------

so if it were up to you (and the vendor):
1) suddenly we're to pretend that you didnt mention your own preference for laser and double shots.
2) suddenly we're to pretend that quality keys (laser etching and double shot over painted keys) never mattered to us at geekhack.
3) suddenly we're to pretend that you yourself didnt mention coat wear on filco keys. (And why delineate it so carefully from 'letter wear'? The thread was talking about key wear in general. Its perfectly appropriate to point out coat wear.)  And you were right to point it out when you did too.

This isnt about us, in the end. I'm going to call out vendor disingenuity when I see it; I'd rather serve the consumer than the vendor.

"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3

Offline wellington1869

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NeoDiNardo's Quest: Looking for the One (keyboard)
« Reply #80 on: Thu, 15 October 2009, 15:27:29 »
Quote from: ripster;125649
Welly, now you're getting not only skeptical but rather argumentative.

rippy, you find it strange that a geekhacker is skeptical and argumentative?

how long have you been on this site again? xD

Quote

This post started out innocently enough:

you mistyped bro; you meant to say: "Seven days ago I lamented the lack of laser etched keys on filco, but dont mention that in this thread, dammit!".

fixed it for ya ;)

Quote

I'm beginning to see why Brian O'Neill doesn't sell to you anymore.

xD And why is that? Do you even know what happened there? xD  Or are you going to keep assuming only consumers make mistakes? xD

The DAS rep has my respect. He came on this site and did something thats rare: he accepted metadot's mistakes and asked for feedback whether positive or negative. As a consumer, I can respect that a lot more than vendors who hedge at every opportunity and blame the consumer at every opportunity.

Call me crazy, but thats how most consumers would feel. I dont know why you feel differently now than you did a week ago on these issues. But hey, we all pick our battles (and arguments).

"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3

Offline msiegel

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NeoDiNardo's Quest: Looking for the One (keyboard)
« Reply #81 on: Thu, 15 October 2009, 16:32:57 »
when customers start sounding litigious, companies get nervous... so they may get defensive.

Filco Zero (Fukka) AEKII sliders and keycaps * Filco Tenkeyless MX brown * IBM F/AT parts: modding
Model F Mod Log * Open Source Generic keyboard controller

Offline NeoDiNardo

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« Reply #82 on: Sun, 01 November 2009, 09:24:00 »
nevermind, that was old news, cherry browns in otaku.

I am getting tired of waiting for the Filcos tho.

All on the basis of I need a tenkeyless for better gaming.

I just might go with the Deck Tactile Legend now. Ordered up my new Lian Li PC-X1000 PC Case and my XFX 5850. Got the new upgraded Deathadder and Megasoma. Just need the dam keyboard and I am set for Modern Warfare 2.
« Last Edit: Sun, 01 November 2009, 09:40:09 by NeoDiNardo »

Offline NeoDiNardo

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« Reply #83 on: Sun, 01 November 2009, 10:01:47 »
ok, so I am going to buy the Deck Tactile Legend, as long as I dont change my mind yet again. So my current thing is, do I get the PS2 connector or go with USB, and do I get the Blue backlighted version to match my deathadder mouse or get the somewhat neat looking frost blacklighted version?

Offline NeoDiNardo

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« Reply #84 on: Sun, 01 November 2009, 10:42:58 »
So you hated the Clears huh?

If I get the browns, I could order today, but its not the otaku version.

Was even thinking of ordering blues, really I just want to game and type good without too light of a press.

Your consern about the friction on the clears has me thinking tho. Can you elaborate?
« Last Edit: Sun, 01 November 2009, 10:46:13 by NeoDiNardo »

Offline NeoDiNardo

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« Reply #85 on: Sun, 01 November 2009, 10:48:22 »
ah, yes, Hate is a strong word, sorry bout that. I was not using it to mean anything more than "not preferred"

guess I will go browse again at elite...

Offline majestouch

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« Reply #86 on: Sun, 01 November 2009, 11:39:36 »
Quote from: NeoDiNardo;129708
nevermind, that was old news, cherry browns in otaku.

I am getting tired of waiting for the Filcos tho.

All on the basis of I need a tenkeyless for better gaming.

I just might go with the Deck Tactile Legend now. Ordered up my new Lian Li PC-X1000 PC Case and my XFX 5850. Got the new upgraded Deathadder and Megasoma. Just need the dam keyboard and I am set for Modern Warfare 2.

I'm getting tired of waiting too! But I can't speed up the factory workers however:( We're getting the tenkeyless otaku with browns again sometime this month though.

Offline NeoDiNardo

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« Reply #87 on: Sun, 01 November 2009, 12:17:48 »
Quote from: majestouch;129744
I'm getting tired of waiting too! But I can't speed up the factory workers however:( We're getting the tenkeyless otaku with browns again sometime this month though.


how bout cherry blues?

Offline NeoDiNardo

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« Reply #88 on: Sun, 01 November 2009, 14:24:20 »
I know, this is starting to become a giant circle. Can't help it. But I whittled my choices down to these:

Filco Tenkeyless Cherry Brown Otaku

Filco Tenkeyless Cherry Blue Otaku

Now forgive me, but which is the better for gaming again between these two? Might just order the Filco Tenkeyless Cherry Black this week, I just want my Modern Warfare 2 experience to be great. I do know that if I order the Cherry Blue or Brown, I have a chance of liking it for both gaming and typing. But if I play it safe with gaming with the Cherry Blacks, I still need to pick up a Brown or a Blue filco to type on anyway. But I read so much I forget!!!! To much keyswitch info to store in my punny human brain. Any last minute thoughts anyone?

Decided against the Deck only because of the price and non Tenkeyless design.

So get some keyboards in stock EliteKeyboards!

I know, this is starting to become a giant circle. Can't help it.
« Last Edit: Sun, 01 November 2009, 14:30:03 by NeoDiNardo »

Offline NeoDiNardo

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« Reply #89 on: Sun, 01 November 2009, 14:33:28 »
Still no votes for Cherry MX Blues and Gaming? Somehow I think this would be best, loudness aside.

Offline NeoDiNardo

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« Reply #90 on: Sun, 01 November 2009, 14:34:00 »
but it would not matter as Elite does not have any stock !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Offline ch_123

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« Reply #91 on: Sun, 01 November 2009, 14:42:14 »
Is that guy in the foreground carrying a gun, and if so, is it a reference to that scene from Lethal Weapon?

Offline NeoDiNardo

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« Reply #92 on: Sun, 01 November 2009, 14:46:45 »
So looking at exspected stock at Elitekeyboards, I can buy a Filco Tenkeyless Brown now, a Filco Tenkeyless Brown Otaku in a week or two, or a Filco Tenkeyless Blue in a week or two. The Filco Tenkeyless Blue is like a myth, coming in 2010 sometime. Are they really that hard to make?  

I'm leaning towards an Otaku version. Looks so cool. I don't look while I type words, but I look alot when I go for numbers or other keys say. Should I go Otaku or not?

Offline NeoDiNardo

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« Reply #93 on: Sun, 01 November 2009, 14:47:55 »
haaha yoda.

Offline NeoDiNardo

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« Reply #94 on: Sun, 01 November 2009, 14:48:25 »
or is that kermit? JK

Offline NeoDiNardo

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« Reply #95 on: Sun, 01 November 2009, 14:53:41 »
Here is a question:

If I buy both a Filco Cherry Blue Tenkeyless and a Filco Cherry Brown Otaku Tenkeyless, can I switch out the blank keycaps? As in put the blank keys on the blue one?

yes I saw that you can buy the blank keycaps separate, but I need to try both boards and I noted that the separate blank keycaps do not have the special sauce coating. How importaint  is that coating again?

Offline ch_123

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« Reply #96 on: Sun, 01 November 2009, 15:02:38 »
Yep, the keycaps are completely interchangeable amongst any keyboard that uses Cherry MX switches.

Offline NeoDiNardo

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« Reply #97 on: Sun, 01 November 2009, 15:09:58 »
So I think I will just buy both.

Get me a Filco Tenkeyless Otaku Brown and a Filco Tenkeyless Blue. I will test them both out and put the blank keycaps on the one I want. Then I can sell or give one away as a gift. One of them should work out. I am still looking to hear anyone say the Blues are good or bad for gaming tho.  I searched, but I can't seem to find anything on it.

Offline microsoft windows

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« Reply #98 on: Sun, 01 November 2009, 15:30:10 »
I bet they'll both work well for playing games.
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Offline ch_123

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« Reply #99 on: Sun, 01 November 2009, 15:30:35 »
Quote from: NeoDiNardo;129796
I searched, but I can't seem to find anything on it.

Odd, it has been discussed more than once.

They are considered bad, the reason being that when released, they don't really 'unclick'. What this means is that if you want to repeatedly press a key, you don't really know how far you have to let it go back up before you can press it again. Sounds odd, but you'd find out soon enough if you played an FPS with one.

That doesn't mean that they are diaolically bad, just that they are not ideal. Browns would be a better choice because the tactility is subtle and therefore doesn't really interfere with that kind of thing.